GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[Montrose1100]

1 minute ago, Sunstar said:

More importantly, where would the retail go? Besides Forever 21, the rest of the Green Street development on the Dallas side is a hotel currently under construction, 3 restaurants and the House of Blues. The Sakowitz building is still a parking garage,and the other remaining structures along this route are parking garages. I'm hoping the corner of the corner of 1111 Travis will have a retail component. But other than that they would have to build something new. 

I wonder when they plan the Four Season's remodel? Maybe they could include a new street front?

[Gator Purify]

Has anyone here ever patronized that Starbucks?  The sign is so small and dim I can't imagine the place attracting many impulse buyers.

[gene]

its always fairly busy as its located within a hotel and just off main street so it gets a fair amount of traffic...also when my best friend headlined a show at house of blues a couple of months ago, we walked over there after soundcheck and there was a line about 10 people long...so it's doing pretty well apparently! 

[Elseed]

1 hour ago, Sunstar said:

More importantly, where would the retail go? Besides Forever 21, the rest of the Green Street development on the Dallas side is a hotel currently under construction, 3 restaurants and the House of Blues. The Sakowitz building is still a parking garage,and the other remaining structures along this route are parking garages. I'm hoping the corner of the corner of 1111 Travis will have a retail component. But other than that they would have to build something new. 

 

I believe the original plan was to redevelop the sakowitz building and part of another building into street level retail? Which I think could work. However, after the city announced that they've narrowed the the list of developers to work on this project no one has really heard anything from the city.

[Nate99]

3 hours ago, Sunstar said:

More importantly, where would the retail go? Besides Forever 21, the rest of the Green Street development on the Dallas side is a hotel currently under construction, 3 restaurants and the House of Blues. The Sakowitz building is still a parking garage,and the other remaining structures along this route are parking garages. I'm hoping the corner of the corner of 1111 Travis will have a retail component. But other than that they would have to build something new. 

 

1111 Fannin looks like it could possibly have retail space at street level on the Dallas side, but I'm not sure if that is practical. Sakowitz re-conversion was always key to this plan, but I'll believe that when I see it.

[tigereye]

Update for high above the site. 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2016 by tigereye

[cspwal]

1111 Main for sure has room for decent sized retail on the ground floor.

 

Summary - Main and Dallas has potential, but will require a big anchor in Sakowitz and good tennants in Hillcorp and the old books a million spot.  There's also some opportunity because of empty lots at the east end of Dallas.  A lot of Dallas is loading docks and blank walls.

 

Going down dallas from east to west in street view, here are my notes:

There are still empty lots closer to the east end of dallas where a new shopping center could be constructed

I don't really see how 4 seasons could turn their loading dock into any sort of retail.  It looks like there might be one open spot next to Ben's beans, and of course whatever the Marlowe will bring.  Green street really treats dallas as the loading dock, at least for the house of blues section.

The parking garage between Caroline and San Jacinto looks very unfriendly to GFR - they'd have to do extensive remodeling to the building to add any retail.

Like Nate99 said, 1111 Fannin looks like it might be able to host some retail.  Green street is just so inward facing for this whole street.  Only where the last block with Hotel Alessandra and Forever 21 does it face Dallas.

The old Sakowitz building really is a big key for this - its the biggest preexisting opportunity, and there's the most potential ground level activity at Dallas and main.

The Humble building has the Starbucks in it, and some more spots.

I doubt the Police HQ building will have GFR anytime soon.  There is some GFR across from it though, and the McDonald's in the garage.  Total Plaza and CentrePoint don't look like good candidates, but they're big towers that they could add a spot in if they wanted to in a lobby remodel.

Even the Hyatt Regency has a blank wall on Dallas - there's a big canopy entrance on Louisiana, but Dallas is a brick wall.  Enterprise plaza (the pink building? forgot the name) has an entrance ramp to underground parking, so I doubt there's much opportunity there.

The rest of Dallas is much the same - sporadic GFR spots, loading docks, and the entrance drive for Double Tree.

 

 

 

 

[Houston19514]

41 minutes ago, cspwal said:

1111 Main for sure has room for decent sized retail on the ground floor.

 

Summary - Main and Dallas has potential, but will require a big anchor in Sakowitz and good tennants in Hillcorp and the old books a million spot.  There's also some opportunity because of empty lots at the east end of Dallas.  A lot of Dallas is loading docks and blank walls.

 

Going down dallas from east to west in street view, here are my notes:

There are still empty lots closer to the east end of dallas where a new shopping center could be constructed

I don't really see how 4 seasons could turn their loading dock into any sort of retail.  It looks like there might be one open spot next to Ben's beans, and of course whatever the Marlowe will bring.  Green street really treats dallas as the loading dock, at least for the house of blues section.

The parking garage between Caroline and San Jacinto looks very unfriendly to GFR - they'd have to do extensive remodeling to the building to add any retail.

Like Nate99 said, 1111 Fannin looks like it might be able to host some retail.  Green street is just so inward facing for this whole street.  Only where the last block with Hotel Alessandra and Forever 21 does it face Dallas.

The old Sakowitz building really is a big key for this - its the biggest preexisting opportunity, and there's the most potential ground level activity at Dallas and main.

The Humble building has the Starbucks in it, and some more spots.

I doubt the Police HQ building will have GFR anytime soon.  There is some GFR across from it though, and the McDonald's in the garage.  Total Plaza and CentrePoint don't look like good candidates, but they're big towers that they could add a spot in if they wanted to in a lobby remodel.

Even the Hyatt Regency has a blank wall on Dallas - there's a big canopy entrance on Louisiana, but Dallas is a brick wall.  Enterprise plaza (the pink building? forgot the name) has an entrance ramp to underground parking, so I doubt there's much opportunity there.

The rest of Dallas is much the same - sporadic GFR spots, loading docks, and the entrance drive for Double Tree.

 

 

 

 

 

I think you exaggerate the difficulty of converting at least part of the first levels of the two parking garages to active street-fronting retail, and also greatly exaggerate the amount of GreenStreet devoted to loading docks.

 

FWIW, I believe the Dallas Street retail corridor plan only runs from Milam to Avenida de las Americas, with the focus being very much on the portion fronting Main, continuing east to Avenida de las Americas.

[astros148]

I think the Centerpoint offices take up too much potential space IMO. That space would be awesome for retail but is being wasted as office that could be anywhere in downtown. 

[BigFootsSocks]

There's always so much empty space in those offices too...

[astros148]

1 minute ago, BigFootsSocks said:

There's always so much empty space in those offices too...

Anyone have any idea how long their lease is?

[Moore713]

1 hour ago, astros148 said:

I think the Centerpoint offices take up too much potential space IMO. That space would be awesome for retail but is being wasted as office that could be anywhere in downtown. 

What if the city tried to get them to move floors and give up the ground floor...it be more asking than  trying to force I mean..of course some type of incentive  would probably have to be involved. .

 

Another thing that I was thinking about was those mobile trunks,  like the ones that come downtown from time to time...at least in the interim to get people use to thinking it as a retail area

[Sunstar]

7 hours ago, Elseed said:

 

I believe the original plan was to redevelop the sakowitz building and part of another building into street level retail? Which I think could work. However, after the city announced that they've narrowed the the list of developers to work on this project no one has really heard anything from the city.

 

I think the other building in question is 1010 Lamar, behind the Sakowitz building. I haven't heard any updates on that redevelopment. 

As far as the inward facing restaurants along the Green Street Development, perhaps they could treat the Dallas side as a patio area for outdoor dining. They could place tables and a hostess stand on the sidewalk and install awnings. It's not retail, per se, but it would help create a more inviting environment for patrons.

[tigereye]

1 hour ago, Sunstar said:

 

I think the other building in question is 1010 Lamar, behind the Sakowitz building. I haven't heard any updates on that redevelopment. 

As far as the inward facing restaurants along the Green Street Development, perhaps they could treat the Dallas side as a patio area for outdoor dining. They could place tables and a hostess stand on the sidewalk and install awnings. It's not retail, per se, but it would help create a more inviting environment for patrons.

 

This. 

 

Atleast 3 restaurants (McCormmicks, III Forks, & Guadalajara) could use the wider sidewalks for patio space. House of Blues' Crossroads Cafe could be a 4th. And then you'll have Hotel Alessandra's front door on Dallas as well. And across the street from HOB, you have 101 Reserve, Ben's Beans, and Dirt Bar, with Marlowe possibly coming soon. 

 

The potential for activity on/near Dallas is there and I believe now that construction is complete, we'll see changes outward as we get closer to Hotel Alessandra's opening. 

Edited April 14, 2016 by tigereye

[cloud713]

8 hours ago, Moore713 said:

What if the city tried to get them to move floors and give up the ground floor...it be more asking than  trying to force I mean..of course some type of incentive  would probably have to be involved. .

 

Another thing that I was thinking about was those mobile trunks,  like the ones that come downtown from time to time...at least in the interim to get people use to thinking it as a retail area

I was thinking that too when I read the part about empty space. Just move them up and renovate the ground floor for retail.

Im not sure what kind of mobile trucks you're referring to (retail?), but maybe they could use the HOB loading dock when there isn't an event going on there?

[cspwal]

I wonder if the city could sponsor a street fair with booths of people selling things, similar to what goes on at mid-main on first thursdays

[Moore713]

7 hours ago, cloud713 said:

I was thinking that too when I read the part about empty space. Just move them up and renovate the ground floor for retail.

Im not sure what kind of mobile trucks you're referring to (retail?), but maybe they could use the HOB loading dock when there is

http://m.chron.com/neighborhood/memorial/news/article/Fashion-trucks-The-next-big-thing-4993536.php#photo-5484282

Edited April 14, 2016 by Moore713
Correction

[lockmat]

Half of my urban dream has come true now that I work downtown (the other is to live there).  So now I walk across Dallas on the far east side twice a day and love to look down and see these improvements. The construction and light poles make the street feel open and welcoming. The trees they chose to line the street with fit well, too. I'm happy they didn't go with oaks.

[H-TownChris2]

Very Gloomy Day...

Alessandra by Chris Rojas, on Flickr

 

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

Facade. Once again, quoting Eric Cartman - "have you seen the poop swatches?"

 

 

[H-TownChris2]

Definitely picking up the pace!

IMG_4786 by Chris Rojas, on Flickr

IMG_4788 by Chris Rojas, on Flickr

IMG_4871 by Chris Rojas, on Flickr

IMG_4870 by Chris Rojas, on Flickr

[astros148]

 

 

 

 

looks like they back on fixing up dallas, was just open to impress tourist

 

 

This is still a good spot for potential retail, like a sephora or even a MAC or some smaller retail. 

 

 

 

I didnt realize but NRG does take up the first floor as well. It takes up way to much space in Greenstreet for it to ever be a retail hub, It has to be leasing out atleast a third of available space. Also for gods akes I hope they put some sort of advertisement or billboard next to the hotel in that ugly empty wall

Edited April 25, 2016 by astros148

[cspwal]

It's so strange to have NRG occupy prime retail space - I would guess that it doesn't match their needs very well, and they only got it because Houston Pavilions was desperate at the time.  They need to figure out a way to attract a few big anchors; bring the big guys in and little stores will pop up too to take advantage of the traffic.

[astros148]

it looks like the hotel wont even come off as nice as the renderings. I wonder how long that NRG lease is for? As long as NRG is there, its not going to be a retail hub. It takes up way to much prime space

[monarch]

^^^ great job astros148!  

[astros148]

in the rendering it shows the blank wall space as a glass facade corridor sort. I wonder if they will actually do that? 

[jmitch94]

If we had not had such a wonderful first render of this hotel it would be seen in such a different light. I think it looks good imo. 

[cspwal]

Looks like they are currently jumping the crane

 

Hotel Alessandra Crane Jump by Christopher Hisle, on Flickr

[tigereye]

On April 25, 2016 at 4:09 PM, astros148 said:

 

 

 

I didnt realize but NRG does take up the first floor as well. It takes up way to much space in Greenstreet for it to ever be a retail hub, It has to be leasing out atleast a third of available space. Also for gods akes I hope they put some sort of advertisement or billboard next to the hotel in that ugly empty wall

 

 

The first floor of the Polk side pictured above is also the first floor of the office building. 

 

On April 25, 2016 at 4:28 PM, astros148 said:

it looks like the hotel wont even come off as nice as the renderings. I wonder how long that NRG lease is for? As long as NRG is there, its not going to be a retail hub. It takes up way to much prime space

 

10 year lease. 

 

Pic update from above with facade going up.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2016 by tigereye

[Urbannizer]

The pool went from the top floor of the hotel and enclosed in glass to the 5th level facing the shopping center.