WestMont: Mixed-Use Development Coming To Montrose

[J.A.]

5 hours ago, houstontexasjack said:

I think the Capitol Tower is actually quite nice in terms of pedestrian experience.  The opening into Understory is clear and quite inviting.  It lacks the same opportunities for ground floor tenants as 609 Main, but I think the design was mean to engage the surface with the tunnel space below.  Skanska's "tunnel space" connects with the ground level in a way that I haven't seen with other structures Downtown.  I would not peg the Capitol Tower design as lacking thought. It just engages the ground level differently than more traditional retail rings.

 @houstontexasjackI partially agree with you. The street level facade at lobby/bank hall on Capitol and at the Understory atrium on Milam are nice enough. The ability to peer down into the food hall from outside and walk down the tiered seating inside has a nice sense of occasion and connection. The glassy tower is decent... but also at ground level everything beyond the Common Bond location on Rusk and all of the frontage on Travis doesn't feel scaled to pedestrians at all. Perhaps it's unfair, but for me it really drags the overall exterior experience down.

 

I don't necessarily mind the lack of GFR (actually Common Bond is gonna be awesome at this location). It's the massing, detailing, and materiality along these 2 streets (Rusk & Travis) that bother me. It felt inhospitable to walk there. The big planter boxes somehow make it worse by squeezing people up against the big stone wall like walking through a back alley. They even down-graded the sidewalk pavement to plain ole concrete here 🤨. I know these are the more service/utility oriented sides of the building but other towers built within the last 15-20yrs do it appreciably better (1000 Main, Hilcorp, BG Place, 609 Main...) If a building occupies a full Downtown block, I don't think any side can be treated like it's the back but that's how most of the bottom 2 floors on the Rusk and Travis sides look.

^^^This doesn't look all that well thought out to me.

[HoustonIsHome]

1 hour ago, Texasota said:

Eh, this is one of the most important intersections in the city. I'm hoping for something genuinely great (like the Montrose Collective + 500 apartments or something) rather than just good enough.

Not only the intersection, but that particular block is the best one on one of the best intersections.

 

Lincoln Street bisects the block immediately across Westheimer. The Aladdin block is irregularly shaped and about half the size. 

 

The smoothie King block across Montrose it's bigger and would probably be better suited to the open renderings we saw a few pages back.

But the south West corner of that intersection is a perfect parcel on one of the more popular intersections in town. I just think archiphiles would expect greatness here. It's not going to be hard to disappoint us on this one. Hopes are high.

 

[West Timer]

N

40 minutes ago, J.A. said:

 

^^^This doesn't look all that well thought out to me.

 

⌵⌵⌵ Neither does this.

[august948]

2 hours ago, West Timer said:

N

 

⌵⌵⌵ Neither does this.

 

Yeah...but it's hard to beat books and booze together.

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

This is the parking lot where my hooligan friends and I used to hang out in the early 80's. 

[gene]

same @Tumbleweed_Tx

 

and hey so the jack in the box will be knocked down and this new development will get that whole parcel of land then right? sorry if i missed that

 

 

[dbigtex56]

On 8/5/2020 at 8:00 PM, HoustonIsHome said:

Lincoln Street bisects the block immediately across Westheimer.

Lincoln St.'s primary function has become to serve as access to Velaro's and Shake Shack's parking lots. It gets little through traffic.
If those businesses were bought out and leveled for the purpose of building a high-rise, I suspect the city would be OK with abandoning Lincoln St.
But still, I agree that the SW corner of Montrose and Westheimer is best situated for constructing a high-rise. I'm still concerned about how access to onsite parking will be handled. Additional people mean additional cars and pedestrians, and poorly placed driveways can do a dandy job of interfering with traffic.

[dbigtex56]

On 8/5/2020 at 9:57 AM, cspwal said:

Quote

The 44,000-square-foot shopping center at 1001 Westheimer dates back to 1937 when it was the Tower Community Center, according to Preservation Houston. Houston City Hall architect Joseph Finger designed the center to complement the adjacent Tower Theater. In the 1980s, its Art Deco facade was covered by stucco.

 

This isn't exactly accurate. The building received a restyle in the 70's and was covered with that pebbly finished composite that was so popular at the time. Windows were given an angular, recessed look. I think this was done when the building functioned as a bank; there used to be a drive-thru close to where Jack-In-The-Box is now. 
In the mid-eighties, a half-hearted attempt was made to make it look somewhat Art Deco again, which is when the 70's alterations were removed;. This is when the stucco, pastel colors,  and 80's ceramic tiles were added.

Edited August 7, 2020 by dbigtex56

[EllenOlenska]

Get in a time machine and give your outcry to the demolition of the super cool First State Bank Building in Pasadena 

[dbigtex56]

On 8/6/2020 at 9:09 AM, gene said:

same @Tumbleweed_Tx

 

and hey so the jack in the box will be knocked down and this new development will get that whole parcel of land then right? sorry if i missed that

 

 

 I believe so. The article said that the parcel is ~ 3 acres, which to my inexpert eye looks about right for that entire block.

[thatguysly]

The Jack in the Box Lot is also owned by Westmont according to Harris County Appraisal District. Plus the article mentions the Jack in the Box.

 

I had a co-worker see a homeless person take a dump in the middle of the day behind the Jack in the Box.

[clutchcity94]

So you’re telling me that land is worth $215/sq ft?!

 

😲

 

Shoot! Will Skanska buy my 5,000 ft lot in Montrose from me?! I’ll give them 50% off !! LOL

Edited August 7, 2020 by clutchcity94

[HNathoo]

43 minutes ago, clutchcity94 said:

So you’re telling me that land is worth $215/sq ft?!

 

😲

 

Shoot! Will Skanska buy my 5,000 ft lot in Montrose from me?! I’ll give them 50% off !! LOL

huge premium for having a full superblock on a hard corner of two major arteries. There really is no

limit to what you can build and the uses that it would attract (retail,office, housing, etc)
 

generally the highest and best land value for a 5k sq ft lot would be 3 townhomes or a single family residence. 

[cspwal]

What about small mid-rise apartment?  Or not really the space for it?

[clutchcity94]

17 minutes ago, HNathoo said:

huge premium for having a full superblock on a hard corner of two major arteries. There really is no

limit to what you can build and the uses that it would attract (retail,office, housing, etc)
 

generally the highest and best land value for a 5k sq ft lot would be 3 townhomes or a single family residence. 

Who was the previous owner before Skanska bought it?

[HouTXRanger]

Is there a reason that, despite Houston's lack of zoning and lot splitting, building "townhomes" with ground floor retail hasn't taken off anywhere? I feel like little pop-ups like that would work great in some of Montrose's back streets. I'd love to see some pedestrian corridors like that.

edit: Ah, just thought of it. Parking requirements. No way you could make that work without zero min parking or market based parking.

Edited August 7, 2020 by HouTXRanger

[cspwal]

Just now, HouTXRanger said:

Is there a reason that, despite Houston's lack of zoning and lot splitting, building "townhomes" with ground floor retail hasn't taken off anywhere? I feel like little pop-ups like that would work great in some of Montrose's back streets. I'd love to see some pedestrian corridors like that.

 

I suspect the biggest issue is parking.  Until recently, the only place that it would even be possible to do that would have been downtown, and downtown already has a lot of vacant retail spots that are more purpose built.  East side of midtown could've started having that, but the parking requirements are still in force there, so even a small retail spot would need a bunch of off-street parking, a lot more than the 2 needed for a townhouse.  Which brings up the fact that most Houston townhouses are mostly garage on the first floor

[cityliving]

[houstontexasjack]

45 minutes ago, HouTXRanger said:

Is there a reason that, despite Houston's lack of zoning and lot splitting, building "townhomes" with ground floor retail hasn't taken off anywhere? I feel like little pop-ups like that would work great in some of Montrose's back streets. I'd love to see some pedestrian corridors like that.

edit: Ah, just thought of it. Parking requirements. No way you could make that work without zero min parking or market based parking.

This might be possible under the new TOD ordinance on primary TOD corridors, which will go to market based parking. 

[HouTXRanger]

4 minutes ago, houstontexasjack said:

This might be possible under the new TOD ordinance on primary TOD corridors, which will go to market based parking. 

Not really, unfortunately. I'm thinking of rows of townhouses, more or less as they exist now, but instead of garages they have a tiny little retail space. Not really possible, or at least economical, if there are any off-street parking requirements at all, and TOD only reduces them, not eliminates them.

IIRC Walkable Places is the one that applies market based parking. TOD is a blanket ~50% reduction for everything.

[cspwal]

In downtown, east downtown, and the west side of midtown, there's no parking minimums, but I don't know how well garage-less townhouses would sell over there.  They would probably sell for less, discouraging developers from making them

[dbigtex56]

34 minutes ago, HouTXRanger said:

40 minutes ago, houstontexasjack said:

 

Not really, unfortunately. I'm thinking of rows of townhouses, more or less as they exist now, but instead of garages they have a tiny little retail space.

I agree, that would be cool. Back in the day, many people would have a small business in the front of their bungalow and live in the back. and it made for a more lively streetscape.
Townhome developers like to cram as many square feet of living space on the lot as possible, which means no attics or utility closets are provided for things and stuff. Many townhome dwellers already have put their garages to use as mini-storage units, relegating their cars to driveways or the street.
Persuading people to give up their storage and/or parking space would be a hard sell. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by dbigtex56

[Texasota]

37 minutes ago, HouTXRanger said:

Not really, unfortunately. I'm thinking of rows of townhouses, more or less as they exist now, but instead of garages they have a tiny little retail space. Not really possible, or at least economical, if there are any off-street parking requirements at all, and TOD only reduces them, not eliminates them.

IIRC Walkable Places is the one that applies market based parking. TOD is a blanket ~50% reduction for everything.

 

I don't think that's right. Walkable places don't automatically lower parking requirements. 

 

In transit corridors, primary streets are now exempt from parking requirements and secondary streets get a 50% reduction.

[HouTXRanger]

13 minutes ago, Texasota said:

 

I don't think that's right. Walkable places don't automatically lower parking requirements. 

 

In transit corridors, primary streets are now exempt from parking requirements and secondary streets get a 50% reduction.

I'm not sure if that's 100% right either, but I sure as hell like the idea of ZERO required parking on a TOD main street. That's fantastic!

[houstontexasjack]

1 hour ago, HouTXRanger said:

I'm not sure if that's 100% right either, but I sure as hell like the idea of ZERO required parking on a TOD main street. That's fantastic!

Secondary TOD corridors have a 50% reduction for commercial construction. Primary corridors have no parking requirement and are full market-based.  I’ve linked to a handy executive summary below:

 

https://houstontx.gov/planning/docs_pdfs/TOD_Ordinance_Summary_Report.pdf

[Texasota]

Huh, so single-family residential (townhouses for most purposes) are also exempt from parking requirements even on secondary TOD streets. That's pretty neat.

[HNathoo]

3 hours ago, clutchcity94 said:

Who was the previous owner before Skanska bought it?

 It was Madison Marquette (PMRG). They built the Travis high rise in midtown.

[HouTXRanger]

16 minutes ago, houstontexasjack said:

Secondary TOD corridors have a 50% reduction for commercial construction. Primary corridors have no parking requirement and are full market-based.  I’ve linked to a handy executive summary below:

 

https://houstontx.gov/planning/docs_pdfs/TOD_Ordinance_Summary_Report.pdf

Hmm, I always thought market based parking was just a different, reduced set of parking requirements. Turns out it's just a renaming for getting rid of parking minimums at all. Nice!

[trymahjong]

On 7/29/2009 at 10:04 AM, trymahjong said:

urban land institute architect renderings

the charrette was sponsored by the Neartown Asso and ULI the community leaders, businesses, residents and interested parties were asked to gather and tell what should be "in the Mix" for the "buckle" of Montrose-- the intersection of Montrose and Westheimer-- Walkability, multi-use -less traffic-- more parking--public art

were all elements--this is just one possibility

This was the concept for Westheimer and Mont4ose in 2009.......it 2ill be interesting to see what the developers actually come up with.

[mollusk]

I still miss the giant disco ball.