GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[cspwal]

I wonder if 1111 Main would make a good historical renovation Apple store, sort of like what they've done in London and New York.

[monarch]

anyone know what became of our H-TOWNLIVE?  i would love to know just what current plans are now in store for the downtown district.  just where on earth did he evolve to?  anyone....  

[BigFootsSocks]

Idk, we kinda drove him out when we realized he was full of crap

[monarch]

^^^ this!  although, i shouldn't admit this socks.... but this is hilarious!

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

H&M is going to City Center because the demographics of the area around City Center fit the profile of what H&M wants in a store location.

 

Downtown doesn't... yet.

[UtterlyUrban]

H&M is going to City Center because the demographics of the area around City Center fit the profile of what H&M wants in a store location.

Downtown doesn't... yet.

You are very likely correct as to why H&M is opening in City Center.

But, may I ask this?

When you say the "area around" CC has demographics that downtown doesn't ..... Yet. " can you explain?

I would think that are Area "around" city center is fairly similar demographically to the around "around" downtown. Take a 3 mile radius around downtown and a 3 mile radius around CC. Are they not fairly similar ethically, age, education, gender, and from a household income standpoint? Married with kids vs. singles or couples might be a significant different. IDK. Is 3-miles too big a radius or too small? Is it common to use something smaller (like a mile?).

Income could be very differnt since, depending what "around" means, CC might pickup the Villages where "around" DT might not pick up River Oaks.

But DT also has 100,000 people within walking distance M-F and all of those office workers are in many retailers sweet spot.

I really don't understand what retailers focus on. To me, I think a lot of retailers focus on agglomeration as much as demographic differences when deciding between two locations. My gut tells me that agglomeration wins over "similar" demographics. But I am uneducated in this.

Again, I am confident that you are correct -- people who know the rudiments of retail say stuff like you mention all the time --- I don't doubt that it is true. But when I am told statements like this I am always confused because I don't know the specific metrics that go into the analysis. You seem to have knowledge of retail and leasing. Any help would be appreciated.

Edited March 11, 2015 by UtterlyUrban

[Gator Purify]

H&M is going to City Center because the demographics of the area around City Center fit the profile of what H&M wants in a store location.

 

Downtown doesn't... yet.

 

You may be right, but I would think that H&M opening in CityCentre has less to do with neighborhood demographics and more to do with the demographics of the patrons who already frequently visit CityCentre.  The young people who shop at H&M usually don't live in places like the Villages; but they do eat at RA sushi, Cyclone Anaya's, and love Studio Movie Grille.

 

On the flip side, I'd think that there are enough young people in Midtown to warrant the opening of an H&M in GreenStreet.

[Howard Huge]

You may be right, but I would think that H&M opening in CityCentre has less to do with neighborhood demographics and more to do with the demographics of the patrons who already frequently visit CityCentre. The young people who shop at H&M usually don't live in places like the Villages; but they do eat at RA sushi, Cyclone Anaya's, and love Studio Movie Grille.

On the flip side, I'd think that there are enough young people in Midtown to warrant the opening of an H&M in GreenStreet.

Bingo.

If I was a blue chip retailer I would be wary of plopping down a flagship store on Dallas simply due to the massive failure of Greenstreet.

Large Texas is onto something when he says DG/GRB should be the future epicenter for downtown retail, that area is more congruent to the crowds/foot traffic necessary to support retail. I honestly dont know whats wrong with the area near greenstreet, maybe its just not ready yet.

But, like was stated earlier, lets wait til 5,000 new living units hit the market, after Alessandra and Marlowe are built, then lets revisit this areas viability to support retail.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Howard Huge

[HoustonIsHome]

I agree with Howard. A 3 mile radius around downtown pick up UHD, HCC, Rice, TSU, UH, all the med students at TMC plus it also captures at least 5 high schools.

The demographic is there, but the question is well they frequent it. I agree, the area around discovery green does have the potential. Single destination places rarely become an overnight success.

The hotels, the popularity of the park, added attractions, pedestrian friendly enhancements will come together to make the area a good spot for retail to take off

[Triton]

Heavy construction already

 

Dallas St Revitalization by marclongoria, on Flickr

[monarch]

beautiful day in houston.  great illustration triton!

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

scavenging and salvaging are still going on, but now they're hitting things with sledgehammers to start the demolition

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

With picture goodness this time

[j_cuevas713]

Oh wow so the hotel is a go?

[Triton]

I still feel like they need to add a residential component to this. Yes, there is Marlowe but still...

[Howard Huge]

I still feel like they need to add a residential component to this. Yes, there is Marlowe but still...

Agreed.

Hey, the possibility is always there, they can always do what they're doing for this hotel, its NOT LIKE THEY'RE LEASING ANY RETAIL SPACE IN THE COMPLEX.

[tigereye]

Demo work has begun.

https://twitter.com/thachadwick/status/581157192503447552

[Nole23]

Awesome. Can't wait to watch this one rise and the impact it will have on turning GreenStreet around as a whole.

[Nate99]

[Howard Huge]

Here we go!

[UtterlyUrban]

New tenant.

http://houston.eater.com/2015/3/31/8319309/south-korean-coffee-chain-caffe-bene-is-coming-to-houston

Yawn.

Will greenstreet ultimately turn into little more than a food court? Or do we think it will have actual dry goods retail?

[CREguy13]

Eventually, the majority will be retail.  I would bet that most of these leases are no longer than 5 years.. retail follows residents.  It makes sense for Midway to have restaurants now, because there are thousands of workers for lunch/dinner crowds throughout the week.  It also makes sense for Midway to keep these leases short-term, so in a few years they can swap in new tenants if demand is created from the influx of hotel rooms and downtown residents; barring any renewal rights from existing tenants of course.  My guess is they will start being selective for new tenants in the next 12 months as a number of units start to deliver.

 

My long-term prediction is that existing galleria-area tenants will either open second locations or close their doors and relocate downtown/midtown.  So many people (outside of millenials) are wanting to move inside the loop and be closer to the core.  The market should follow.

[jt16]

Eventually, the majority will be retail.  I would bet that most of these leases are no longer than 5 years.. retail follows residents.  It makes sense for Midway to have restaurants now, because there are thousands of workers for lunch/dinner crowds throughout the week.  It also makes sense for Midway to keep these leases short-term, so in a few years they can swap in new tenants if demand is created from the influx of hotel rooms and downtown residents; barring any renewal rights from existing tenants of course.  My guess is they will start being selective for new tenants in the next 12 months as a number of units start to deliver.

 

My long-term prediction is that existing galleria-area tenants will either open second locations or close their doors and relocate downtown/midtown.  So many people (outside of millenials) are wanting to move inside the loop and be closer to the core.  The market should follow.

 

Maybe, but I just don't see retailers choosing downtown over the galleria.  The galleria is clearly the location of choice, and growing stronger.  What's wrong with a coffee shop by the way?  

[cspwal]

With all the development going in just south of Greenstreet (2 sky houses of residential, the existing Houston house residential, and the block 334 construction workers) a good coffee shop is a must for the area.  That being said, sometimes I do want to buy pants without driving somewhere.

[Moore713]

He is actually has a point a number of smaller chain over the years have be pushed out of area, due to projects like ROD, sak wanting a bigger foot print etc...this may not be a bad thing as downtown could focus on more mom and pop retail types

[Montrose1100]

My long-term prediction is that existing galleria-area tenants will either open second locations or close their doors and relocate downtown/midtown.  So many people (outside of millenials) are wanting to move inside the loop and be closer to the core.  The market should follow.

I seriously doubt the high-end luxury retailers would give up their west side locations for Downtown. I mean, a city like New York only has 2 Chanel locations (and we are light years away).

 

I can see affordable middle class options opening up Downtown, the kind of stores you see in suburban shopping malls. It's already happened with just a hand full at Green Street. I don't see why the stores would necessarily have to close shop to open Downtown. While Downtown has a few multi-million dollar condos,  it has no where near the money power of the Galleria. 

 

Certain stores can it make it that close. All they need is the demographics and the population. Look at Memorial City and the Galleria. Downtown +/- that close.

[CREguy13]

I didn't suggest that high-end luxury retailers would leave - I think ROD and Uptown Park will flourish and be the luxury niche that part of town needs.  I'm just watching the trend and predict that many retailers will open up new stores downtown. 

 

The New York conversation is moot, because no city will ever be a New York.

 

I'm simply following where the money and investment is headed, along with increased foot traffic. 

[Montrose1100]

I didn't suggest that high-end luxury retailers would leave - I think ROD and Uptown Park will flourish and be the luxury niche that part of town needs.  I'm just watching the trend and predict that many retailers will open up new stores downtown. 

 

The New York conversation is moot, because no city will ever be a New York.

 

I'm simply following where the money and investment is headed, along with increased foot traffic. 

I was agreeing with you about other retailers opening up (eventually) Downtown. Just not the high-end stuff. Just threw in NYC for anyone who read what I said for a comparison. While Downtown has certainly come around (and continues to), the surrounding areas south, east, and north have a little ways to go before we can see shopping on a mall sized scale there. XXI & BCBG are trail blazers for the rebirth of Street Level Retail.

[CREguy13]

It just depends on how the market reacts when all of these MF units deliver, but I agree that we are on the same page.

[UtterlyUrban]

With all the development going in just south of Greenstreet (2 sky houses of residential, the existing Houston house residential, and the block 334 construction workers) a good coffee shop is a must for the area. That being said, sometimes I do want to buy pants without driving somewhere.

Ben's Beans, locally owned and a really cool place, is a block away. If you haven't been there, you should try it. With all of the construction on Dallas, he could probably use some new customers willing to dance around the construction.

Edited April 1, 2015 by UtterlyUrban