Minute Maid Park Mixed-Use Development

[mfastx]

I mean, I'll literally take anything to replace a parking lot in the area at this point. I'm a little surprised at the lack of development around both MMP and TC in the two decades they've been there. 

[hbg.50]

3 hours ago, shasta said:

I've been there also. It feels baseball.

As far as it being dead, that probably has more to do with St. Louis having one of the worst downtowns in all of America. 

I’m curious what does your dream development include and why?  There are already plenty of restaurants and bars within walking distance of MMP.  What else is needed.  
Instead of manufacturing some entertainment complex like Texas Live or Atlanta, or St. Louis I would hope for something more organic along the lines of Wrigleyville or Boston, or Baltimore.  What am I missing?

[cspwal]

There are not that many restaurants and bars within easy walking distance of minute maid. Besides the two italian restaurants next to the stadium (not exactly pre-/post- gaming places), the closest cluster are the hotel based bars and restaurants around discovery green (minimum 2 block walk), followed by downtown (7 blocks to main street) and EaDo bars (6 blocks and going under the freeway).

Of course more organic development like wrigleyville would be great, but the Astros literally own the land around the stadium.  They either have to do the development themselves or sell the blocks off.  

Oh and my dream development would include a cheap bar and grill that I can suggest to my friends to go to before or after the game

[urbanize713]

I think something like McGregor Square next to Coors Field in Denver would be the perfect addition. 

public space ✅

hotel ✅

bars/restaurants ✅

condos (we would prob get apartments) ✅

https://www.mcgregorsquare.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=gbp_listing 

[hbg.50]

13 minutes ago, cspwal said:

There are not that many restaurants and bars within easy walking distance of minute maid. Besides the two italian restaurants next to the stadium (not exactly pre-/post- gaming places), the closest cluster are the hotel based bars and restaurants around discovery green (minimum 2 block walk), followed by downtown (7 blocks to main street) and EaDo bars (6 blocks and going under the freeway).

Of course more organic development like wrigleyville would be great, but the Astros literally own the land around the stadium.  They either have to do the development themselves or sell the blocks off.  

Oh and my dream development would include a cheap bar and grill that I can suggest to my friends to go to before or after the game

Irma’s is on the north side of the stadium along with a BBQ place.  Isn’t there another Irma’s on Texas Avenue (owned by the son).  EADO and DG are perfectly walkable to/from MMP.

[cspwal]

Walking across at least two blocks of parking every direction before you even head to the place that is a couple minutes walk is not that walkable.  This is coming from someone who will walk a mile downtown to do stuff regularly - for unplanned, spontaneous before or after game events, it has to be a maximum of one block away or it is not part of the conversation.

[shasta]

1 hour ago, steve1363 said:

I’m curious what does your dream development include and why?  There are already plenty of restaurants and bars within walking distance of MMP.  What else is needed.  
Instead of manufacturing some entertainment complex like Texas Live or Atlanta, or St. Louis I would hope for something more organic along the lines of Wrigleyville or Boston, or Baltimore.  What am I missing?

An Astros themed district would be cool.

 

I've been to about half of the stadiums in MLB and you can definitely tell which ones have a " cohesive district", similar to  as you mentioned,  and which ones are a hodgepodge of establishments hoping to become a district (which we are) and then some with not surrounding establishments at all.

 

That is more of the NRG Stadium model.

Edited November 3, 2023 by shasta

[mattyt36]

1 hour ago, steve1363 said:

Instead of manufacturing some entertainment complex like Texas Live or Atlanta, or St. Louis I would hope for something more organic along the lines of Wrigleyville or Boston, or Baltimore.  What am I missing?

Agree 💯, STL, ATL, and Arlington are what GreenStreet would be if it were lively.  Nothing to write home about.  I'm sure all will seem as outdated as shopping malls in 10 years.

Area around Reds ballpark in Cincy seemed more organic but I have only been there once.

[Montrose1100]

It's cute. I'll take a glass box over anything stucco. Brick would be timeless, but that's asking a lot. Wonder if this 300 key hotel will further delay Houston First Hotel.

[txtiger]

....  Was hoping this development would've ended up being a more baseball-oriented version of St. Louis' Union Station:

St. Louis Union Station | St. Louis, MO (stlouisunionstation.com)

Downtown still needs more attractions for families.

[kennyc05]

Should be on point with Hines behind it.

[jhjones74]

2 hours ago, steve1363 said:

I’m curious what does your dream development include and why?  There are already plenty of restaurants and bars within walking distance of MMP.  What else is needed.  
Instead of manufacturing some entertainment complex like Texas Live or Atlanta, or St. Louis I would hope for something more organic along the lines of Wrigleyville or Boston, or Baltimore.  What am I missing?

Would definitely cheer for something having more character/organic to the area, though the difference Houston has with Chicago, Boston and Baltimore is that it's a much younger city that unfortunately can't pull from historic buildings surrounding the area. The last thing I'd want is this district to feel like memorial city, or any of those (in my opinion) bland, car centric developments. But new construction has to happen, making it difficult to replicate what any older city has.

Compared to any other MLB stadium I've been to, and I've been to more than half, there's not yet a compelling enough reason to stay downtown right now before or after games. I was at Bravery chef hall before one of the ALCS games this year and it was basically empty. Again, too far to be in the conversation as cspwal pointed out. Building a hotel won't change this, there needs to be a larger vision for the whole area that I hope Astros owners are still considering.

[houstontexasjack]

49 minutes ago, Montrose1100 said:

It's cute. I'll take a glass box over anything stucco. Brick would be timeless, but that's asking a lot. Wonder if this 300 key hotel will further delay Houston First Hotel.

Marvy Finger went with brick for the apartments across Crawford similar to the old Union Station. I think a brick exterior matching that on the new development would signal ties to the ballpark quite nicely. 

[j_cuevas713]

2 hours ago, jhjones74 said:

Would definitely cheer for something having more character/organic to the area, though the difference Houston has with Chicago, Boston and Baltimore is that it's a much younger city that unfortunately can't pull from historic buildings surrounding the area. The last thing I'd want is this district to feel like memorial city, or any of those (in my opinion) bland, car centric developments. But new construction has to happen, making it difficult to replicate what any older city has.

Compared to any other MLB stadium I've been to, and I've been to more than half, there's not yet a compelling enough reason to stay downtown right now before or after games. I was at Bravery chef hall before one of the ALCS games this year and it was basically empty. Again, too far to be in the conversation as cspwal pointed out. Building a hotel won't change this, there needs to be a larger vision for the whole area that I hope Astros owners are still considering.

Actually that whole area by Christ Church Cathederal / Cash Register Building has many buildings that could be reurposed. Many have lawyers or bail bondsmen in them but a few bars for the area would make the area feel much more connected. Not to mention the homeless constantly trashing the neighborhood. My biggest issue is this isn't starting till November 2024!?!? So we have to wait another year before anything even starts? 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by j_cuevas713

[quietstorm]

I think the feeling of safety and familiarity has a lot to do with the level of pre/post game activity around MMP. 

From my observation, people who frequent Astros games are native Houstonians, corporate types and suburbanites—folks who generally aren’t comfortable bar hopping downtown.
 

I live inside the loop and go out fairly regularly, but I can honestly say, bar hopping at City Center or any of the other suburban “town centers” feels a lot safer and the vibe of these places feels more “familiar” to me as someone who grew up here, if that makes sense. 
 

Honestly, I’m also not sure how many transplants from NYC, Chicago, Boston, etc. are frequenting Astros games. 
 

Development around the park just may not be seen by the Astros as a good investment given the makeup of fans who frequent the games. 

[JBTX]

16 minutes ago, quietstorm said:

Honestly, I’m also not sure how many transplants from NYC, Chicago, Boston, etc. are frequenting Astros games. 

I've been on the conference circuit a lot in the past few months, both in Houston and out of state, and it seems "go to an Astros game" is a thing a lot of out of towners are doing while here for a conference. They seem to all end up at the Rustic or something similar. Post seems "too far."

[kennyc05]

8 minutes ago, JBTX said:

I've been on the conference circuit a lot in the past few months, both in Houston and out of state, and it seems "go to an Astros game" is a thing a lot of out of towners are doing while here for a conference. They seem to all end up at the Rustic or something similar. Post seems "too far."

Yep and Rockets games.

[LosFeliz]

TXDOT just removed 375 units at the Lofts at the Ballpark. I'd hope that any first phase would at least replace that number. Green Street's huge mistake was removing the residences and not building a hotel right away. If you went those first years, there was nothing to make you want to come back outside of concerts. You have one shot to make a first impression. This needs to knock it out of the park, pun fully intended. 

 

[quietstorm]

5 hours ago, JBTX said:

I've been on the conference circuit a lot in the past few months, both in Houston and out of state, and it seems "go to an Astros game" is a thing a lot of out of towners are doing while here for a conference. They seem to all end up at the Rustic or something similar. Post seems "too far."

Totally see that for conference attendees; but I was speaking to transplants who have no natural affinity to frequent Astros games. 
 

Not sure if the  number of games that coincide with out of town conference attendees from urban walkable areas who want to attend Astros games is worth the investment. 

[hindesky]

Meanwhile Steve Cohen owner of the Mets plans to build a $8 billion complex next to Citi Field.

[Sanjorade]

56 minutes ago, hindesky said:

Meanwhile Steve Cohen owner of the Mets plans to build a $8 billion complex next to Citi Field.

Maybe they should invest in winning ... 

[monarch]

^^^ my goodness!  i'm LOVING everything about the proposed NY METS forthcoming development (METROPOLITAN PARK) at CITI FIELD.  steve cohen seems to have thought of it all.  this particular POWERHOUSE development shall include dynamic entertainment for everyone.  the young... the old... and even the in-between.  during his time as the ASTROS owner, (two-time world champions) jim crane has incurred billions in fan revenue thus far.  yet, his discombobulated forthcoming ASTROS downtown development seems to be as shallow as the RIO GRANDE.  i shall now take my hat off and SALUTE the NY METS owner steve cohen.  what a MAGNIFICENT proposition for CITI FIELD... what a grand vision for the NY fans... what a POWERFUL CULMINATION for the NY METS legacy.  meanwhile, here in H-TOWN, we shall just keep on dreaming big...

 

[monarch]

1 hour ago, Sanjorade said:

Maybe they should invest in winning ... 

^^^ with a brand spanking new $8 billion proposed DYNAMIC POWERHOUSE development such as METROPOLITAN PARK, they are already "winning".  the ASTROS have seemingly invested in "winning" and what do we have...?

[Sanjorade]

26 minutes ago, monarch said:

^^^ with a brand spanking new $8 billion proposed DYNAMIC POWERHOUSE development such as METROPOLITAN PARK, they are already "winning".  the ASTROS have seemingly invested in "winning" and what do we have...?

Houston has affordability and thus the ability for many people to do more than just dream.

East River is turning into a great dev and EaDo in general is coming of age. Downtown will also continue to grow little by little, and that's okay. It's come a long way in 15 years and will be completely different in another 15. 

As an entrepreneur, Houston allows me to live comfortably while I build my company. I get to do more than just dream :) 

[houstontexasjack]

55 minutes ago, monarch said:

^^^ with a brand spanking new $8 billion proposed DYNAMIC POWERHOUSE development such as METROPOLITAN PARK, they are already "winning".  the ASTROS have seemingly invested in "winning" and what do we have...?

Since 2017: 2 World Series; 4 American League Pennants; 6 AL West titles (every full season since 2017); 7 consecutive American League Championship Series appearances (a division series era record).

The Mets…..well, . Mets.
 

 

[hbg.50]

3 hours ago, hindesky said:

Meanwhile Steve Cohen owner of the Mets plans to build a $8 billion complex next to Citi Field.

This can only help us.  Competition is good!

[jhjones74]

22 minutes ago, houstontexasjack said:

Since 2017: 2 World Series; 4 American League Pennants; 6 AL West titles (every full season since 2017); 7 consecutive American League Championship Series appearances (a division series era record).

The Mets…..well, . Mets.
 

 

Which is why you really have to question why Houston owners seem to lack the vision that they could have given how good the Astros have been. Reinvest the billions that have been made the last several years so that even when/if the team falls off there’s still a good reason for people to want to come to and spend money around games.

[monarch]

54 minutes ago, Sanjorade said:

Houston has affordability and thus the ability for many people to do more than just dream.

East River is turning into a great dev and EaDo in general is coming of age. Downtown will also continue to grow little by little, and that's okay. It's come a long way in 15 years and will be completely different in another 15. 

As an entrepreneur, Houston allows me to live comfortably while I build my company. I get to do more than just dream :) 

^^^ you don't think that STEVE COHEN is living "comfortably"?  i'd beg to differ.  new york is the largest city in the USA.  therefore, it must be affordable to somebody... right?  one would surely think that METS owner steve cohen performed some sort of market research and a strong bit of due diligence before announcing a multi-billion POWERHOUSE development within his city... am i correct?

dallas is just as "affordable" as our fair city of houston, yet, THEY NEVER EVER STOP DREAMING BIG AND BRINGING THEIR RESPECTIVE DREAMS TO FRUITION.  what on earth, has houston performed lately?  heck, we are still awaiting news (after a decade) on our prospective W HOTEL... remember?  (what a JOKE we have become)

dude, @Sanjorade trust me, pal, you are hereby preaching to the exacerbated worn-out HAIFER choir.  we have witnessed it all here in our fair city.  therefore, all we can continue to do is... DREAM and keep WAITING...   

[monarch]

14 minutes ago, jhjones74 said:

Which is why you really have to question why Houston owners seem to lack the vision that they could have given how good the Astros have been. Reinvest the billions that have been made the last several years so that even when/if the team falls off there’s still a good reason for people to want to come to and spend money around games.

^^^ @jhjones74 excellent post.  i simply could not have stated this point any better.  please, do not be a stranger...

[houstontexasjack]

1 hour ago, jhjones74 said:

Which is why you really have to question why Houston owners seem to lack the vision that they could have given how good the Astros have been. Reinvest the billions that have been made the last several years so that even when/if the team falls off there’s still a good reason for people to want to come to and spend money around games.

Realistically, the only way to get folks to come out in the long run is to win and keep winning on the field. You can’t have too many long lulls.  I do think the Astros are getting to that point where we just expect them to be in it every single year. I recall the bitter disappointment of 2019 and the fear that it was our last shot to win a 2nd title for a long time. Now? I’d actually be surprised if the Astros weren’t in the ALCS again in 2024.

Other teams with ballpark villages that this forum wants us to emulate, such as the Cardinals and Braves, have had very long periods of success to the point their fans expect they’ll be in it in any given year.