Minute Maid Park Mixed-Use Development

[hbg.50]

5 hours ago, nate4l1f3 said:

Does anyone have any opinions about the above street walkway mentioned in the article? My first thought was an indoor sky bridge like the others downtown but is that really necessary? I wouldn’t want anything added to the stadium that would mess up the aesthetics and the original design. Thoughts?

Yeah, I had a similar reaction to the sky bridge, not because of aesthetics but I just hope it doesn’t detract from street level foot traffic.  Supposedly this development will be modeled off of what they have in Atlanta and St. Louis.  I’ll have to do some research before passing judgement.

[Fortune]

I'm curious to see how this development will be modeled off of The Battery in Atlanta and Ballpark Village in St Louis. Those developments seem like they had more space to work with. 

[houstontexasjack]

11 hours ago, phillip_white said:

Such a shame MLB didn’t schedule the Yankees for Altuve for Father’s Day.

[nate4l1f3]

2 hours ago, steve1363 said:

Yeah, I had a similar reaction to the sky bridge, not because of aesthetics but I just hope it doesn’t detract from street level foot traffic.  Supposedly this development will be modeled off of what they have in Atlanta and St. Louis.  I’ll have to do some research before passing judgement.

Foot traffic was another thing that came to mind as well. It isn’t that hot that we can’t walk across the street 🤦🏻‍♂️. I’m going to guess the hotel is the part that will be connected via skywalk.  

[nate4l1f3]

1 hour ago, Fortune said:

I'm curious to see how this development will be modeled off of The Battery in Atlanta and Ballpark Village in St Louis. Those developments seem like they had more space to work with. 

The Batter does for sure. If you trust Google Earth here’s how it compares us to Ballpark Village in St Louis. 

[bobruss]

I thought Crane was planning on using the blocks north of Minute Maid towards Franklin.

 

 

[shasta]

I just hope Crane is hoping to build a quality district with quality buildings.

 

I'm seeing a bunch of developers VE'ing projects right now due to the market conditions or we are seeing others , like the McNairs, holding off on breaking ground. 

 

 

[nate4l1f3]

15 hours ago, bobruss said:

I thought Crane was planning on using the blocks north of Minute Maid towards Franklin.

 

 

This mixed use development has always been planned for the area highlight. It’s been mentioned that he does own several lots around the ballpark including those that you mentioned. 

[freundb]

With the NHIIP getting the go ahead, and the Eado cap, there should be more room for an Astros district.

[tigereye]

On 3/26/2023 at 7:16 PM, freundb said:

With the NHIIP getting the go ahead, and the Eado cap, there should be more room for an Astros district.

I think that’s the city’s plan already for the caps over trenched 59/45, post NHHIP. They’ve discussed it before. See below. 

On 11/9/2021 at 9:17 AM, tigereye said:

Just as a reminder, the Downtown TRIZ’s plans for on cap development, post 59 reroute. See pages 61-69 for EaDo Ramble. 

http://www.downtowntirz.com/downtownhouston/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/08-11-20-Board-Book-FINAL.pdf

Calling my shot here: The next addition to our skyline will be this highrise from the Astros. A 3 year build schedule for a 4-Star hotel on a small site leads me to this conclusion. I’ll guess 40 stores (hotel + residences) 

Edited March 28, 2023 by tigereye

[j_cuevas713]

10 hours ago, tigereye said:

I think that’s the city’s plan already for the caps over trenched 59/45, post NHHIP. They’ve discussed it before. See below. 

Calling my shot here: The next addition to our skyline will be this highrise from the Astros. A 3 year build schedule for a 4-Star hotel on a small site leads me to this conclusion. I’ll guess 40 stores (hotel + residences) 

What about the two towers Skanska still wants to build? 

[bookey23]

Those two Skansa towers likely won't be started until they complete the first tower, which won't happen before the fall. Notwithstanding Skansa really streamlining the next towers, it's a pretty safe bet that the Astros tower will be the next highrise in downtown Houston, unless there's another announced project that I'm forgetting.

[tigereye]

27 minutes ago, j_cuevas713 said:

What about the two towers Skanska still wants to build? 

It’s all about location. The Astros would have mixed used development to compliment their downtown ballpark. 

Skanska has a master plan for Discovery West but no tenants. We won’t see them build until then. But I can envision another sports franchise owner wanting their own mixed use development, especially with Toyota Center’s lease nearing expiration within the next 10 years. Tillman partnering with Skanska on the Discovery West project seems like a possibility, since it would be catty corner to Toyota Center’s front entrance 

Or maybe it’s fulfilling HoustonFirst’s master plan for GRBCC and expanding southward. The older renders below show a convention expansion but that could be coupled with a hotel/mixed use component. It would also mean relocation of The Rustic and a GRBCC parking garage if that happened 

Edited March 28, 2023 by tigereye

[nate4l1f3]

3 hours ago, tigereye said:

It’s all about location. The Astros would have mixed used development to compliment their downtown ballpark. 

Skanska has a master plan for Discovery West but no tenants. We won’t see them build until then. But I can envision another sports franchise owner wanting their own mixed use development, especially with Toyota Center’s lease nearing expiration within the next 10 years. Tillman partnering with Skanska on the Discovery West project seems like a possibility, since it would be catty corner to Toyota Center’s front entrance 

Or maybe it’s fulfilling HoustonFirst’s master plan for GRBCC and expanding southward. The older renders below show a convention expansion but that could be coupled with a hotel/mixed use component. It would also mean relocation of The Rustic and a GRBCC parking garage if that happened 

Yeah I’m not counting on Tilman doing anything slightly progressive with the Rockets. 

 

 

On 3/26/2023 at 7:16 PM, freundb said:

With the NHIIP getting the go ahead, and the Eado cap, there should be more room for an Astros district.

Cap talk is cool but it seems so far away. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by nate4l1f3

[hindesky]

2 minutes ago, nate4l1f3 said:

Yeah I’m not counting on Tilman doing anything slightly progressive with the Rockets. 

 

Tillman just bought the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino in Stateline, NV at Lake Tahoe. He probably doesn't have the money now and is rumored to want to buy the Washington Commanders although there are now 2 more bidders.

[nate4l1f3]

27 minutes ago, hindesky said:

Tillman just bought the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino in Stateline, NV at Lake Tahoe. He probably doesn't have the money now and is rumored to want to buy the Washington Commanders although there are now 2 more bidders.

Yup. He is also building a casino on the Strip from ground up. The Rockets are on the back burner. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by nate4l1f3

[houstontexasjack]

4 hours ago, nate4l1f3 said:

Yup. He is also building a casino on the Strip from ground up. The Rockets are on the back burner. 

If the Rockets win the draft lottery and get Wembanyama, maybe we’ll see progress. 

[bookey23]

14 hours ago, houstontexasjack said:

If the Rockets win the draft lottery and get Wembanyama, maybe we’ll see progress. 

I never expected to see Wemby's name on this forum haha. It'd be great for the Rockets if they got Wemby, but honestly the Rockets organization seems like a bit of a mess right now. Might not be the best landing spot for Wemby long-term

Edited March 29, 2023 by bookey23

[j_cuevas713]

19 hours ago, hindesky said:

Tillman just bought the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino in Stateline, NV at Lake Tahoe. He probably doesn't have the money now and is rumored to want to buy the Washington Commanders although there are now 2 more bidders.

I thought Tillman was going to be a great owner but at this point he's done very little for the Rockets organization and he's done nothing to help add more to Toyota Center. Now I'm hearing he wants to buy the Washington Commanders which tells me he has the money, he's just not spending it here. 

[bookey23]

Everything I've ever heard about Tilman says that he's a shady businessman and is constantly over-leveraged. He loves his vanity projects and seems to have a short attention span. Ideally, he'll sell the Rockets to someone who will actually invest the time, money, and energy that the team deserves, but I don't know why he'd sell at this point. If his empire survived the pandemic, I think he's pretty set for a long time

[j_cuevas713]

1 hour ago, bookey23 said:

Everything I've ever heard about Tilman says that he's a shady businessman and is constantly over-leveraged. He loves his vanity projects and seems to have a short attention span. Ideally, he'll sell the Rockets to someone who will actually invest the time, money, and energy that the team deserves, but I don't know why he'd sell at this point. If his empire survived the pandemic, I think he's pretty set for a long time

Yep, I had two different friends who worked at his hotel in Uptown. They said when he would come by to visit he would get really harsh with the staff about his expectations for the business. I have yet to really hear anything good about him. 

[nate4l1f3]

I’ve mentioned it here before but Ive got a sneaky feeling he’s going to ask for a new area. That or maybe he’s going to ask for some public money to fund a huge face lift to Toyota Center. I just refuse to believe that he’s changed his mind on all that big talk when he bought the team about upgrading the arena and building the Rockets a mixed-use training facility. 

[kennyc05]

24 minutes ago, nate4l1f3 said:

I’ve mentioned it here before but Ive got a sneaky feeling he’s going to ask for a new area. That or maybe he’s going to ask for some public money to fund a huge face lift to Toyota Center. I just refuse to believe that he’s changed his mind on all that big talk when he bought the team about upgrading the arena and building the Rockets a mixed-use training facility. 

I think it'll be a huge upgrade to Toyota center there's nowhere else to put a NBA arena downtown.

[nate4l1f3]

 

[monarch]

^^^ i've stated it once.  therefore, i'll gladly state it again, "TOYOTA CENTER has got to be the UGLIEST NBA BASKETBALL ARENA in the entire league and on the planet".  the HOUSTON SUMMIT (constructed in 1975... and is now LAKEWOOD CHURCH) was an architectural jewel.  whenever, the HOUSTON SUMMIT was hereby constructed in circa 1975, it was without a doubt, one of the most gorgeous state-of-the-art arenas in the entire world.  i recall being a kid and visiting the HOUSTON SUMMIT for the very time, i was completely amazed with the arena itself, along with GREENWAY PLAZA.  therefore, i just cannot comprehend just why on earth, would houston allow for the SUMMIT to be replaced downtown by such an alien monster looking eyesore.  IMO, the TOYOTA CENTER exterior just reeks... and always looks head-to-toe filthy.  (can someone please explain just why that is?)  i was also one of the patrons that thought... once TILMAN became owner, that he would dive head over heels into completely modernizing and renovating this monstrous eyesore.  especially, since opening his most gorgeous/magnificent POST OAK HOTEL in UPTOWN, HOUSTON.  maybe, it's just me, but i'm inclined to believe that once the ASTROS reveal their long anticipated downtown mixed-use development, then TILMAN shall harbor no choice but to announce something forthcoming for the TOYOTA CENTER.  how on earth, would he be able to look ASTROS owner JIM CRANE in the eye?  i would be beyond embarrassed...       

 

[nate4l1f3]

2 minutes ago, monarch said:

^^^ i've stated it once.  therefore, i'll gladly state it again, "TOYOTA CENTER has got to be the UGLIEST NBA BASKETBALL ARENA in the entire league and on the planet".  the HOUSTON SUMMIT (constructed in 1975... and is now LAKEWOOD CHURCH) was an architectural jewel.  whenever, the HOUSTON SUMMIT was hereby constructed in circa 1975, it was without a doubt, one of the most gorgeous state-of-the-art arenas in the entire world.  i recall being a kid and visiting the HOUSTON SUMMIT for the very time, i was completely amazed with the arena itself, along with GREENWAY PLAZA.  therefore, i just cannot comprehend just why on earth, would houston allow for the SUMMIT to be replaced downtown by such an alien monster looking eyesore.  IMO, the TOYOTA CENTER exterior just reeks... and always looks head-to-toe filthy.  (can someone please explain just why that is?)  i was also one of the patrons that thought... once TILMAN became owner, that he would dive head over heels into completely modernizing and renovating this monstrous eyesore.  especially, since opening his most gorgeous/magnificent POST OAK HOTEL in UPTOWN, HOUSTON.  maybe, it's just me, but i'm inclined to believe that once the ASTROS reveal their long anticipated downtown mixed-use development, then TILMAN shall harbor no choice but to announce something forthcoming for the TOYOTA CENTER.  how on earth, would he be able to look ASTROS owner JIM CRANE in the eye?  i would be beyond embarrassed...       

 

I remember as a kid seeing the renderings of Toyota Center and even back then I was underwhelmed. It felt outdated from day 1 to me. I’d like to see a more imposing facade something similar to this. 

[j_cuevas713]

Yeah Toyota Center is ugly at pedestrian level but I like the overall design. It barely passed a vote to be built in the first place but the cost is what helped it gain enough support at the time. I think the total cost was half of what American Airlines Arena was in Dallas. 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by j_cuevas713

[monarch]

^^^ our fair city of houston, tx, is constantly ESPOUSING TO THE ENTIRE WORLD that "we are the fourth largest city in america".  yet we constantly allow for the greater dallas metropolitan areas to constantly OUTCLASS us with their WORLD CLASS sporting facilities/venues... along with their WORLD CLASS hospitality developments.  everyone of their state-of-the-art sporting venues, totally outclasses anything that the greater houston areas have to date.  EVERYONE!  heck, isn't dallas supposed to be the more conservative city?  houston always seems to be coming from behind and playing catch-up to the dallas metro areas.  heck, as we all know, THEY REALLY DID NOT NEED A BRAND NEW BALLPARK FOR THE RANGERS... RIGHT?  yet, here we are, they now harbor a brand spanking new state-of-the-art venue, along with a MAGNIFICENT NEW mixed-use baseball entertainment district with gorgeous new hospitality facilities.  yet, here is the TWO-TIME WORLD CHAMPION ASTROS owner JIM CRANE, espousing/dreaming/planning to the media about finally bringing forth concepts/renderings and possibly "breaking ground sometimes at the end of the year".  as long as i live, i shall never comprehend this fact.

PRIME EXAMPLE of just what i'm speaking of:  the city of houston, utilizes taxpayer funds to construct a state-of-the-art retractable roof football venue for their newly proposed HOUSTON TEXANS football team.  finally, this gorgeous new facility is completed and is introduced as a marvel of engineering to the entire nation/world.  (heck, although, i LOVED the overall design of the new venue) I REALLY HATED THE FACT THAT I KEPT THINKING THAT THE NEW VENUE WAS CONSTRUCTED MUCH TOO SMALL... TO HEREBY REMAIN VIABLE, WITH THE EVER EVOLVING NFL SUPER BOWL ROTATION.  subsequently, dallas comes along and constructs their HUGE EXPENSIVE MAGNIFICENT NEW STATE-OF-THE-ART FOOTBALL VENUE and TOTALLY OUTCLASSES THE HOUSTON FACILITY.  hereby, making it appear smaller and meek by comparison.  therefore, currently, the NFL is expressing that in order for houston to hereby remain viable in the SUPER BOWL ROTATION, NRG STADIUM IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY REIMAGINED AS A FOOTBALL VENUE.  why on earth, couldn't they just construct the DAMN FACILITY right in the first place...?  

[CREguy13]

I'm sure Crane, Shell (Shell Energy Stadium) and many others that stand to benefit greatly from the capped park will be big donors.  Imagine if they built a new basketball Arena where Astros Lot C is... you'd have 3 downtown stadiums all with light rail access, fronting the capped park, walking distance to one another and all close proximity to this entertainment district.  Not gonna happen, but that'd be a Houston urbanist dream!

[HOUCAJUN]

17 minutes ago, monarch said:

^^^ our fair city of houston, tx, is constantly ESPOUSING TO THE ENTIRE WORLD that "we are the fourth largest city in america".  yet we constantly allow for the greater dallas metropolitan areas to constantly OUTCLASS us with their WORLD CLASS sporting facilities/venues... along with their WORLD CLASS hospitality developments.  everyone of their state-of-the-art sporting venues, totally outclasses anything that the greater houston areas have to date.  EVERYONE!  heck, isn't dallas supposed to be the more conservative city?  houston always seems to be coming from behind and playing catch-up to the dallas metro areas.  heck, as we all know, THEY REALLY DID NOT NEED A BRAND NEW BALLPARK FOR THE RANGERS... RIGHT?  yet, here we are, they now harbor a brand spanking new state-of-the-art venue, along with a MAGNIFICENT NEW mixed-use baseball entertainment district with gorgeous new hospitality facilities.  yet, here is the TWO-TIME WORLD CHAMPION ASTROS owner JIM CRANE, espousing/dreaming/planning to the media about finally bringing forth concepts/renderings and possibly "breaking ground sometimes at the end of the year".  as long as i live, i shall never comprehend this fact.

PRIME EXAMPLE of just what i'm speaking of:  the city of houston, utilizes taxpayer funds to construct a state-of-the-art retractable roof football venue for their newly proposed HOUSTON TEXANS football team.  finally, this gorgeous new facility is completed and is introduced as a marvel of engineering to the entire nation/world.  (heck, although, i LOVED the overall design of the new venue) I REALLY HATED THE FACT THAT I KEPT THINKING THAT THE NEW VENUE WAS CONSTRUCTED MUCH TOO SMALL... TO HEREBY REMAIN VIABLE, WITH THE EVER EVOLVING NFL SUPER BOWL ROTATION.  subsequently, dallas comes along and constructs their HUGE EXPENSIVE MAGNIFICENT NEW STATE-OF-THE-ART FOOTBALL VENUE and TOTALLY OUTCLASSES THE HOUSTON FACILITY.  hereby, making it appear smaller and meek by comparison.  therefore, currently, the NFL is expressing that in order for houston to hereby remain viable in the SUPER BOWL ROTATION, NRG STADIUM IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY REIMAGINED AS A FOOTBALL VENUE.  why on earth, couldn't they just construct the DAMN FACILITY right in the first place...?  

The new rangers ball park gets made fun of because of it's horrible exterior. The cowboys were going to build something larger because of their large fan base. The winter weather in Dallas has the NFL nervous so I wouldn't be expecting to see a Superbowl there soon. Lastly, the newer NFL stadiums are nice but they lack in overall seating capacity. But you're absolutely right. Don't understand it.