Minute Maid Park Mixed-Use Development

[Houston19514]

17 hours ago, CREguy13 said:

Just an observation, but I find it interesting the new garage planned on West side of ADLA shows a skybridge to the large parking lot that butts up against the Marriot Marquis... I forgot who owns that lot, but would be really neat if Crane had his eyes on that huge parking lot for future expansions.  

 

Louis Macey Investments (or a related entity)

[tigereye]

On 11/9/2023 at 11:01 PM, steve1363 said:

If the Astros are looking at Texas Live or the Battery, then that’s their problem.  Why look at a suburban development for an urban stadium?  That makes zero sense.

The Astros are looking at sports mixed use development trend as a whole. Texas Live & The Battery are just a few examples of this trend, not the inspiration. And most of these developments include the oversized bar element like at Xfinity Live in South Philly, which Astros fans might recognize as the road game watch party host from last year’s World Series. This trend is not only limited to baseball, but is found throughout sports, from Patriot Place (NFL) to North Station (NBA & NHL). And it’s been a trend since Petco Park’s outfield neighborhood that was constructed with the park in 2004. The Astros are simply doing due diligence in looking at what has succeeded and what hasn’t as they plan the venue. They don’t even have an architect of record yet for the project. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by tigereye

[hbg.50]

1 hour ago, tigereye said:

The Astros are looking at sports mixed use development trend as a whole. Texas Live & The Battery are just a few examples of this trend, not the inspiration. And most of these developments include the oversized bar element like at Xfinity Live in South Philly, which Astros fans might recognize as the road game watch party host from last year’s World Series. This trend is not only limited to baseball, but is found throughout sports, from Patriot Place (NFL) to North Station (NBA & NHL). And it’s been a trend since Petco Park’s outfield neighborhood that was constructed with the park in 2004. The Astros are simply doing due diligence in looking at what has succeeded and what hasn’t as they plan the venue. They don’t even have an architect of record yet for the project. 

Are you speculating or do you work with the Astros?

[tigereye]

On 11/13/2023 at 7:55 PM, steve1363 said:

Are you speculating or do you work with the Astros?

1. I do not work for the Astros. 

2. This isn’t rocket science. It’s sports franchises looking at what other franchises have done successfully and attempting to replicate that success or exceed it. Teams do this all the time in every league, whether it’s planning a new stadium or mixed use development. And the MLB has numerous examples throughout the league the Astros have probably already visited as they plan their own iteration. 

[txtiger]

Just now opening up in Kansas City:

Pennway Point | Pennway | 2500 West Pennway Street, Kansas City, MO, USA

^Something like this, at the end of Avenida, is what I'd hoped for, for the Minute Maid mixed-use site.  Fam. Ly. Attraction(s).

 

See also/again St. Louis' Union Station:

St. Louis Union Station | St. Louis, MO (stlouisunionstation.com)


For adjacent to Minute Maid, however, I'd instead employ an R80XL (by Bussink/Chance), however to up the game to match New York City's/Munich's wheel, and get ours centered at an angle on the Avenida sight line:

R80XL — BUSSINK®

^AstroWheel?

Edited December 18, 2023 by txtiger

[txtiger]

Something like this:

 

[hindesky]

The empty lot that Annunciation Church/Incarnate Word School owns is going to be a parking garage for them and the school. They just applied for a variance for it and Harvey builders is the GC.

 

[HoustonIsHome]

On 11/7/2023 at 9:09 PM, monarch said:

^^^ dallas brand spanking new renders for their ($3 billion + civic center) due to be completed 2028.  this ULTRA MAGNIFICENT behemoth shall bury the houston george r. brown convention center deep into the proverbial sand.

^^^ not one, but two new PICKARD CHILTON designed towers slated for downtown dallas.

^^^ GOLDMAN SACHS's new financial campus slated for dallas includes new hotels, condos, etc... can houston DARE to incorporate such a MAGNIFICENT financial campus such as this?  heck, we couldn't even construct the MCNAIR campus on POST OAK BLVD.

^^^ the new renders of the proposed DALLAS INTERNATIONAL DISTRICT.  heck, this appears very similar to houston's TMC HELIX PARK...

 

I have seen various angles of this proposal and zooming in I am not impressed once I get past the towers.

Dallas already has a poor street grid, even in its downtown. The proposals for this area are even more poorly integrated.

Further, this looks very suburban oriented. More like suburban office parks than the primary downtown of the 4th largest metro in the country.

GRB already feels more urban than KBH, and GRB will remain more urban even if all of this is built.

The Dallas convention proposal, as some have already mentioned is just a proposal. I like that Dallas thinks big, but the final results won't be as planned. And at best the area looks to be more like the Post Oak area than in a downtown. Looking at it again, it looks even less urban than Post Oak. The ground level of these buildings look like buildings you would find in Westchase, but definitely not a major downtown.

I am craving for glimpses of a more robust Astroville, but I just haven't seen enough to judge. My whacky dream for the area is to take the Astros/space theme and run away with it. Space ship shaped buildings, moving skywalks, space related restaurants, domed covered walkways with constellations, rides. I mean just pile on the space related cheese. Like these: 

 

Dunno how they would tie it in to the ballpark, but they could make it work.

[Big E]

On 12/23/2023 at 11:48 AM, HoustonIsHome said:

I have seen various angles of this proposal and zooming in I am not impressed once I get past the towers.

Dallas already has a poor street grid, even in its downtown. The proposals for this area are even more poorly integrated.

Further, this looks very suburban oriented. More like suburban office parks than the primary downtown of the 4th largest metro in the country.

GRB already feels more urban than KBH, and GRB will remain more urban even if all of this is built.

The Dallas convention proposal, as some have already mentioned is just a proposal. I like that Dallas thinks big, but the final results won't be as planned. And at best the area looks to be more like the Post Oak area than in a downtown. Looking at it again, it looks even less urban than Post Oak. The ground level of these buildings look like buildings you would find in Westchase, but definitely not a major downtown.

I am craving for glimpses of a more robust Astroville, but I just haven't seen enough to judge. My whacky dream for the area is to take the Astros/space theme and run away with it. Space ship shaped buildings, moving skywalks, space related restaurants, domed covered walkways with constellations, rides. I mean just pile on the space related cheese. Like these: 

 

Dunno how they would tie it in to the ballpark, but they could make it work.

Pretty sure all of those proposals, other than the Convention Center one aren't happening.

[HoustonIsHome]

On 12/24/2023 at 4:15 PM, Big E said:

Pretty sure all of those proposals, other than the Convention Center one aren't happening.

I agree with you. I'm just saying if by some miracle it all gets built it still wouldn't be something I would be wetting my pantaloons over because in my humble opinion that office park look isn't a good look for downtown. 

I will take the more organic urban growth around GRB anyday over that Las Colinas wannabe development.  

The Woodlands Waterway Area would feel more at home in a major downtown area than that Dallas proposal.

I respect Monarch's opinions and I think his posts are very entertaining. I share his disappointment in Houston not thinking big like Dallas, but I disagree with the notion that Dallas's delivered projects are better. 

Houston's layout is just better. It's roads around downtown are designed in a perfect grid that is easier to tie urban environments in  together without the more feral plots that lends to the more office park look. Houston doesn't need to try hard and it often doesn't unfortunately. 

This Minute Maid development probably won't wow many initially, but I am certain that it will organically grow into a wonderful area. The elements are already there. All that is missing is for the structures to be built.

[Skyscraper832]

On 12/18/2023 at 10:03 AM, txtiger said:

Something like this:

 

Long-time lurker…first post

does somebody have a similar map handy that shows lots owned by the sports teams? Swear I’ve seen one on here before. 
 

there’s an odd amount of inefficient surface lots adjacent to both stadiums. I think earlier in the thread it was mentioned something was happening with Incarnate Word’s parking lot

[hindesky]

Crane owns the lot shown and a lot across Minute Maid next to the new Team store. He owns multiple lots on the north side of the stadium too.

[hindesky]

12 U.S. markets where entertainment districts are under consideration or construction.

https://www.bdcnetwork.com/12-us-markets-where-entertainment-districts-are-under-consideration-or-construction

[X.R.]

22 hours ago, hindesky said:

12 U.S. markets where entertainment districts are under consideration or construction.

https://www.bdcnetwork.com/12-us-markets-where-entertainment-districts-are-under-consideration-or-construction

Am I missing something or is Houston not on there? Or is the point that the Astros are still so far away that they aren't even considered to be under consideration yet?

[mattyt36]

56 minutes ago, X.R. said:

Am I missing something or is Houston not on there? Or is the point that the Astros are still so far away that they aren't even considered to be under consideration yet?

Maybe it's because all of these absolutely dwarf what has been proposed for MMP!  🤣

[txtiger]

On 12/18/2023 at 8:53 AM, txtiger said:

Just now opening up in Kansas City:

Pennway Point | Pennway | 2500 West Pennway Street, Kansas City, MO, USA

^Something like this, at the end of Avenida, is what I'd hoped for, for the Minute Maid mixed-use site.  Fam. Ly. Attraction(s).

 

See also/again St. Louis' Union Station:

St. Louis Union Station | St. Louis, MO (stlouisunionstation.com)


For adjacent to Minute Maid, however, I'd instead employ an R80XL (by Bussink/Chance), however to up the game to match New York City's/Munich's wheel, and get ours centered at an angle on the Avenida sight line:

R80XL — BUSSINK®

^AstroWheel?

Just announced/or acknowledged in the brand-new May edition of Amusement Today, for Downtown San Antonio:   A trend on which Houston is sleeping, I'm telling you...  Don't know why something like this couldn't anchor both Avenida Houston and be a mixed-use gateway to Minute Maid Park:

[shasta]

What is taking the Astros so long...hasn't Crane owned the Astros for almost 15 years now?

[JBTX]

Officially sold in 2013, but he's been around as the heir-apparent since 2011.

[monarch]

^^^ need i say more...?

[004n063]

12 hours ago, monarch said:

^^^ need i say more...?

...maybe it's just me, but...maybe yes? I have no idea what this is supposed to mean .

[j_cuevas713]

Last time Crane said anything about this, he said we'd see plans late last 2023. Since then we've only see a half-ass rendering.

[hindesky]

I saw that he plans to start at the end of the '24 season.

"Astros unveil planned entertainment district outside MMP

November 12th, 2023

Giles Kibbe, Astros senior vice president and general counsel, said the team hopes to break ground following next season."

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/astros-entertainment-district-minute-maid-park

[shasta]

I think we all thought we were getting a "Baseball Village" similar to the ones surrounding the ball park in other MLB cities.

[bobruss]

It seems that one thing our Major League Baseball and football teams have in common is their owners are not very good on the development end. I also think Crane made a terrible mistake in getting rid of his G.M> All the guy did was got them to the A.L. Championship series. I know their pitching has had problems but it now seems there is a lot of turmoil on the team. No love. If it aint broke don't fix it. Is Abreu getting ready for social security? I bet this affects their plans for moving forward on their village plans.

[houstontexasjack]

3 hours ago, hindesky said:

I saw that he plans to start at the end of the '24 season.

"Astros unveil planned entertainment district outside MMP

November 12th, 2023

Giles Kibbe, Astros senior vice president and general counsel, said the team hopes to break ground following next season."

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/astros-entertainment-district-minute-maid-park

Well, good news for HAIF, at the current pace, this season will end a month earlier than last….

[monarch]

9 hours ago, 004n063 said:

...maybe it's just me, but...maybe yes? I have no idea what this is supposed to mean .

^^^ slow... lethargic... snail's pace... turtle's pace... constipation mode... geriatric's pace... slow motion... freeze frame... ketchup in a bottle's pace... you know, the very standard for houston city officials never getting things done unlike other big cities within our great state.  It's nowhere near ROCKET SCIENCE...