Minute Maid Park Mixed-Use Development

[hbg.50]

19 minutes ago, monarch said:

therefore, currently, the NFL is expressing that in order for houston to hereby remain viable in the SUPER BOWL ROTATION, NRG STADIUM IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY REIMAGINED AS A FOOTBALL VENUE.  why on earth, couldn't they just construct the DAMN FACILITY right in the first place...?  

What are you talking about?  Source?

You are being a bit dramatic.   As I've stated in previous posts DFW copies everything Houston has which is why they can improve on our innovations ( e.g. Astrodome >> Texas Stadium,  NRG >> Cowboys Stadium,  Jones Hall >> Meyerson Center).  Anyway Dallas only hosted 1 Super Bowl and it was a complete and utter failure and debacle.  The NFL has not sniffed going back to DFW since.   As far as the new baseball stadium it is mostly memed for looking like a warehouse on the outside and a replica of MMP on the inside.  Who cares about an entertainment complex in the middle of nowhere?

[j_cuevas713]

34 minutes ago, monarch said:

^^^ our fair city of houston, tx, is constantly ESPOUSING TO THE ENTIRE WORLD that "we are the fourth largest city in america".  yet we constantly allow for the greater dallas metropolitan areas to constantly OUTCLASS us with their WORLD CLASS sporting facilities/venues... along with their WORLD CLASS hospitality developments.  everyone of their state-of-the-art sporting venues, totally outclasses anything that the greater houston areas have to date.  EVERYONE!  heck, isn't dallas supposed to be the more conservative city?  houston always seems to be coming from behind and playing catch-up to the dallas metro areas.  heck, as we all know, THEY REALLY DID NOT NEED A BRAND NEW BALLPARK FOR THE RANGERS... RIGHT?  yet, here we are, they now harbor a brand spanking new state-of-the-art venue, along with a MAGNIFICENT NEW mixed-use baseball entertainment district with gorgeous new hospitality facilities.  yet, here is the TWO-TIME WORLD CHAMPION ASTROS owner JIM CRANE, espousing/dreaming/planning to the media about finally bringing forth concepts/renderings and possibly "breaking ground sometimes at the end of the year".  as long as i live, i shall never comprehend this fact.

PRIME EXAMPLE of just what i'm speaking of:  the city of houston, utilizes taxpayer funds to construct a state-of-the-art retractable roof football venue for their newly proposed HOUSTON TEXANS football team.  finally, this gorgeous new facility is completed and is introduced as a marvel of engineering to the entire nation/world.  (heck, although, i LOVED the overall design of the new venue) I REALLY HATED THE FACT THAT I KEPT THINKING THAT THE NEW VENUE WAS CONSTRUCTED MUCH TOO SMALL... TO HEREBY REMAIN VIABLE, WITH THE EVER EVOLVING NFL SUPER BOWL ROTATION.  subsequently, dallas comes along and constructs their HUGE EXPENSIVE MAGNIFICENT NEW STATE-OF-THE-ART FOOTBALL VENUE and TOTALLY OUTCLASSES THE HOUSTON FACILITY.  hereby, making it appear smaller and meek by comparison.  therefore, currently, the NFL is expressing that in order for houston to hereby remain viable in the SUPER BOWL ROTATION, NRG STADIUM IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY REIMAGINED AS A FOOTBALL VENUE.  why on earth, couldn't they just construct the DAMN FACILITY right in the first place...?  

Ehh I mean our setup has allowed us to host 2 Super Bowls and 3 Final Fours in less than 20 years. I’d rather have my stadiums in the city proper, not in some suburb. NRG is def not small and MMP is the best baseball stadium in the state. It’ll be even better once Crane start’s construction on the ballpark village. Really Toyota Center just needs an entrance upgrade. And let’s not act like Shell Energy Stadium where the Dynamo/Dash play is some cookie cutter venue. It has a great European design. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by j_cuevas713

[hbg.50]

10 hours ago, bookey23 said:

Everything I've ever heard about Tilman says that he's a shady businessman and is constantly over-leveraged. He loves his vanity projects and seems to have a short attention span. Ideally, he'll sell the Rockets to someone who will actually invest the time, money, and energy that the team deserves, but I don't know why he'd sell at this point. If his empire survived the pandemic, I think he's pretty set for a long time

I honestly don't know why Fertitta gets so much hate.   Open your eyes and look around.   He has almost single-handedly revived the University of Houston sports complex and without him UH would NOT be in the Big 12.  The Fertitta Center is universally applauded as the best venue to watch a game in the city of Houston.  The recognition the Post Oak Hotel has received speaks for itself.

9 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Yep, I had two different friends who worked at his hotel in Uptown. They said when he would come by to visit he would get really harsh with the staff about his expectations for the business. I have yet to really hear anything good about him. 

You think Crane is an angel?  He fired his GM that JUST won a World Series!  Even the Christian McNair's have been known to say the wrong things ("inmates running the prison")! 🤣

Let's give Fertitta credit for all the good he's done for this city.   No need to throw shade.

[bookey23]

Fair enough! Fertitta has certainly done a lot to put UH sports on the map

[shasta]

4 hours ago, monarch said:

^^^ i've stated it once.  therefore, i'll gladly state it again, "TOYOTA CENTER has got to be the UGLIEST NBA BASKETBALL ARENA in the entire league and on the planet".  the HOUSTON SUMMIT (constructed in 1975... and is now LAKEWOOD CHURCH) was an architectural jewel.  whenever, the HOUSTON SUMMIT was hereby constructed in circa 1975, it was without a doubt, one of the most gorgeous state-of-the-art arenas in the entire world.  i recall being a kid and visiting the HOUSTON SUMMIT for the very time, i was completely amazed with the arena itself, along with GREENWAY PLAZA.  therefore, i just cannot comprehend just why on earth, would houston allow for the SUMMIT to be replaced downtown by such an alien monster looking eyesore.  IMO, the TOYOTA CENTER exterior just reeks... and always looks head-to-toe filthy.  (can someone please explain just why that is?)  i was also one of the patrons that thought... once TILMAN became owner, that he would dive head over heels into completely modernizing and renovating this monstrous eyesore.  especially, since opening his most gorgeous/magnificent POST OAK HOTEL in UPTOWN, HOUSTON.  maybe, it's just me, but i'm inclined to believe that once the ASTROS reveal their long anticipated downtown mixed-use development, then TILMAN shall harbor no choice but to announce something forthcoming for the TOYOTA CENTER.  how on earth, would he be able to look ASTROS owner JIM CRANE in the eye?  i would be beyond embarrassed...       

 

I'd hate to think what you think of NRG Stadium- now that place is a horrible place to watch a game.  It has no charm whatsoever. 

[kennyc05]

44 minutes ago, steve1363 said:

I honestly don't know why Fertitta gets so much hate.   Open your eyes and look around.   He has almost single-handedly revived the University of Houston sports complex and without him UH would NOT be in the Big 12.  The Fertitta Center is universally applauded as the best venue to watch a game in the city of Houston.  The recognition the Post Oak Hotel has received speaks for itself.

You think Crane is an angel?  He fired his GM that JUST won a World Series!  Even the Christian McNair's have been known to say the wrong things ("inmates running the prison")! 🤣

Let's give Fertitta credit for all the good he's done for this city.   No need to throw shade.

This reads like a Clutchfans post 😁😁😁

[houstontexasjack]

A revival of something like that Marquette 24-story tower that was proposed to the north of the Juice Box would be nice as the Astros move forward with their plans. 

[hbg.50]

56 minutes ago, kennyc05 said:

This reads like a Clutchfans post 😁😁😁

I don't know what that is...a Rocket's forum?  I honestly don't even follow the Rockets!  I downsized sports as I got older!  🤣

[kennyc05]

15 minutes ago, steve1363 said:

I don't know what that is...a Rocket's forum?  I honestly don't even follow the Rockets!  I downsized sports as I got older!  🤣

Yep they were originally called Clutch City they've been around since 1999 that's the oldest forum I've been on besides here 😂

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

sportsball.... my eyes glazed over already.

[monarch]

4 hours ago, steve1363 said:

What are you talking about?  Source?

You are being a bit dramatic.   As I've stated in previous posts DFW copies everything Houston has which is why they can improve on our innovations ( e.g. Astrodome >> Texas Stadium,  NRG >> Cowboys Stadium,  Jones Hall >> Meyerson Center).  Anyway Dallas only hosted 1 Super Bowl and it was a complete and utter failure and debacle.  The NFL has not sniffed going back to DFW since.   As far as the new baseball stadium it is mostly memed for looking like a warehouse on the outside and a replica of MMP on the inside.  Who cares about an entertainment complex in the middle of nowhere?

^^^ i'm being "a bit dramatic"?  actually, from the way that i see it... I'M BEING COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY DRAMATIC.  YET, VERY FACTUAL.  therefore, should you not be able to actually comprehend just what i am speaking of, then why on earth, are you replying/quoting me?  THIS IS NOT NEUROSURGERY.  don't you think that i'm astute enough to actually compare the houston sporting venues to the facilities in dallas?  THEIR FACILITIES TOTALLY OUTCLASS OURS in every facet. 

i am completely aware of the AT&T STADIUM super bowl debacle.  this was due to the unexpected ICE STORM disaster that basically tore AT&T STADIUM from the NFL SUPER BOWL rotation.  yet, their stadium still outclasses NRG STADIUM by miles because houston did not construct it's stadium correctly in the first place.

have you been to THE STAR lately?  the COWBOYS new training facility totally outclasses anything that the TEXANS could  have ever dreamed of.  the TEXANS practice in a freaking air bubble for GOD'S sake.  talk about embarrassing.  yet, the McNAIRS have been talking about improvements to their antiquated facility... and subsequently, have not done shit yet.  the COWBOYS have not won anything significant in decades.  yet, they harbor the very best athletic facilities in the entire league.  yet, people wonder just why they are so very wealthy.  heck, they make a whole lot of money because their respective facilities are so very superior.

"Who cares about an entertainment complex in the middle of nowhere?"  well, apparently, JIM CRANE does... did you watch the video?  he now wants to emulate the rangers gorgeous entertainment complex here in downtown houston.  

[monarch]

^^^ everyone knows that TILMAN FERTITA is all about the money... right?  therefore, maybe he should venture forth to austin, tx, and visit the brand spanking new ($400mm+) MOODY CENTER... directly on the UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS campus.  the MOODY CENTER is one of the most magnificent and spectacular sporting/concert venues in the entire world... interior and exterior wise.  this particular facility, was just voted THE #1 HIGHEST GROSSING VENUE IN THE WORLD.  subsequently, MOODY CENTER is now nominated as the SPORTS FACILITY OF THE YEAR.  (oh, and did i care to mention, that it's located on a university campus?)  you see, this is what can actually transpire when you construct something RIGHT the FIRST TIME.  (and stop being so afraid and ultra-conservative like the houston venues) i have journeyed up to austin and frequented a few games this past season.  MOODY CENTER is utterly amazing in all facets.  talk about absolutely beautiful.  HOOK'EM!

Edited March 30, 2023 by monarch

[HOUCAJUN]

46 minutes ago, monarch said:

^^^ i'm being "a bit dramatic"?  actually, from the way that i see it... I'M BEING COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY DRAMATIC.  YET, VERY FACTUAL.  therefore, should you not be able to actually comprehend just what i am speaking of, then why on earth, are you replying/quoting me?  THIS IS NOT NEUROSURGERY.  don't you think that i'm astute enough to actually compare the houston sporting venues to the facilities in dallas?  THEIR FACILITIES TOTALLY OUTCLASS OURS in every facet. 

i am completely aware of the AT&T STADIUM super bowl debacle.  this was due to the unexpected ICE STORM disaster that basically tore AT&T STADIUM from the NFL SUPER BOWL rotation.  yet, their stadium still outclasses NRG STADIUM by miles because houston did not construct it's stadium correctly in the first place.

have you been to THE STAR lately?  the COWBOYS new training facility totally outclasses anything that the TEXANS could  have ever dreamed of.  the TEXANS practice in a freaking air bubble for GOD'S sake.  talk about embarrassing.  yet, the McNAIRS have been talking about improvements to their antiquated facility... and subsequently, have not done shit yet.  the COWBOYS have not won anything significant in decades.  yet, they harbor the very best athletic facilities in the entire league.  yet, people wonder just why they are so very wealthy.  heck, they make a whole lot of money because their respective facilities are so very superior.

"Who cares about an entertainment complex in the middle of nowhere?"  well, apparently, JIM CRANE does... did you watch the video?  he now wants to emulate the rangers gorgeous entertainment complex here in downtown houston.  

I do understand where you're coming from but the Cowboys' fan base and history is the reason why they can build these facilities. The Texans are still a young franchise relative to the others in the league. If the Oilers would've stayed, I think you would have a point on venue size etc... No other franchise in the league has the caliber of facilities the cowboys have. As for the Astros, this new development is long overdue and way late to the party among other things. I'm still baffled at the idea that Jim Crane can pull off building a 4star hotel before the W hotel gets started. I'm scratching my head on this.

[monarch]

5 minutes ago, HOUCAJUN said:

I do understand where you're coming from but the Cowboys' fan base and history is the reason why they can build these facilities. The Texans are still a young franchise relative to the others in the league. If the Oilers would've stayed, I think you would have a point on venue size etc... No other franchise in the league has the caliber of facilities the cowboys have. As for the Astros, this new development is long overdue and way late to the party among other things. I'm still baffled at the idea that Jim Crane can pull off building a 4star hotel before the W hotel gets started. I'm scratching my head on this.

^^^ i absolutely concur.  you have just gathered my entire point, dallas has already long completed their respective W HOTEL.  yet, we in H-TOWN, are still scratching our heads...

[HOUCAJUN]

25 minutes ago, monarch said:

^^^ everyone knows that TILMAN FERTITA is all about the money... right?  therefore, maybe he should venture forth to austin, tx, and visit the brand spanking new ($400mm+) MOODY CENTER... directly on the UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS campus.  the MOODY CENTER is one of the most magnificent and spectacular sporting/concert venues in the entire world... interior and exterior wise.  this particular facility, was just voted THE #1 HIGHEST GROSSING VENUE IN THE WORLD.  (oh, and did i care to mention, that it's located on a university campus?)  you see, this is what can actually transpire when you construct something RIGHT the FIRST TIME.  (and stop being so afraid and ultra-conservative like the houston venues) i have journeyed up to austin and frequented a few games this past season.  MOODY CENTER is utterly amazing in all facets.  talk about absolutely beautiful.  HOOK'EM!

UOfH wishes it had the funding and fund raising capabilities of UT. Being in the Big 12 and arguably the most notable university in Texas help creates a facility like this. UH has a long way to go to get to this level.

 

[monarch]

3 minutes ago, HOUCAJUN said:

UOfH wishes it had the funding and fund raising capabilities of UT. Being in the Big 12 and arguably the most notable university in Texas help creates a facility like this. UH has a long way to go to get to this level.

 

^^^ in my most earnest view, UH has become a construction powerhouse.  they do not have to emulate anything like TEXAS, they are moving along at the speed of light to enable and fortify whatever they can imagine.  although, I LIVE AND BREATHE EVERYTHING UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS, i am constantly amazed, delighted, and overjoyed at the numerous accomplishments via the university of houston.  they are becoming a serious force to reckon with.  GO COOGS!   

[HOUCAJUN]

4 minutes ago, monarch said:

^^^ i absolutely concur.  you have just gathered my entire point, dallas has already long completed their respective W HOTEL.  yet, we in H-TOWN, are still scratching our heads...

Maybe Houston should relook at venue locations in the future and head for the suburbs to get things done sooner. I personally prefer having venues in the city core but what is Houston's Arlington and Frisco? I believe Jerry World was originally planned for Fair Park but failed then Arlington bailed him out. Less red tape.

[monarch]

2 minutes ago, HOUCAJUN said:

Maybe Houston should relook at venue locations in the future and head for the suburbs to get things done sooner. I personally prefer having venues in the city core but what is Houston's Arlington and Frisco? I believe Jerry World was originally planned for Fair Park but failed then Arlington bailed him out. Less red tape.

^^^ actually, THE FUTURE IS NOW IN H-TOWN.  IMO, it's not about locating newer larger state-of-the-art venues in our many suburban areas.  IT'S ABOUT PLANNING THEM CORRECTLY TO FORTIFY HOUSTON PROPER.  IMO, this is what has happened to NRG STADIUM, and subsequently, TOYOTA CENTER.  they were not planned correctly in the first place.  this is ultimately why they have AGED so FAST and look the way they look.  the city of dallas always seems to METICULOUSLY planned their respective venues beforehand, to make certain that they age as gracefully as possible.  

[staresatmaps]

6 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Ehh I mean our setup has allowed us to host 2 Super Bowls and 3 Final Fours in less than 20 years. I’d rather have my stadiums in the city proper, not in some suburb. NRG is def not small and MMP is the best baseball stadium in the state. It’ll be even better once Crane start’s construction on the ballpark village. Really Toyota Center just needs an entrance upgrade. And let’s not act like Shell Energy Stadium where the Dynamo/Dash play is some cookie cutter venue. It has a great 

The only thing European about Shell is the outside shell which is fairly unique. Everything else is American. Roof only on 2 halves, and a concert roof. Unheard of in Europe. 2 tiers where the lower tier is very small. Very rare in Europe until recently. Full connecting walk around concourse. Very very rare in Europe. Bars looking over the field wasting space where seats could be. Unheard of in Europe. Now there are 2 new things added last year, one which is European(Safe Standing), and one which is super American(Table seats).

[txtiger]

Still kinda wish this mixed use would be something akin to St. Louis' Union Station development, to get family attractions sandwiched between Conventions and Baseball:  St. Louis Union Station | St. Louis, MO (stlouisunionstation.com)

I'd center an R80XL-27 cabin on Avenida de las Americas, but skewed north/south, and build down and/or around that. ( R80XL — BUSSINK® ).  Let's get some additional year-round kinetics down that way, so supplement with what Discovery Green already helps.

Edited March 30, 2023 by txtiger

[thatguysly]

And yet the Mavs are already looking to build a new arena. I don't care if the arena is dated or ugly. Unless these billionaires want to self finance a stadium, I don't want to see more taxpayers giving the ultra rich more tax breaks and stadium funds. Share the profit then if you need public money.

[CREguy13]

12 hours ago, CREguy13 said:

I'm sure Crane, Shell (Shell Energy Stadium) and many others that stand to benefit greatly from the capped park will be big donors.  Imagine if they built a new basketball Arena where Astros Lot C is... you'd have 3 downtown stadiums all with light rail access, fronting the capped park, walking distance to one another and all close proximity to this entertainment district.  Not gonna happen, but that'd be a Houston urbanist dream!

I know this is off topic from MMP, but to expand on my above comment: imagine if there were some movement behind the scenes to build a brand new state-of-the-art downtown arena to officially lure away the NHL Coyotes to Houston? 

Phoenix is trying to block Tempe's plans for a new stadium, as the Coyotes are currently playing in ASU's arena that seats 4600 people... A brand new stadium could close the deal, if things have been quietly progressing.

NHL, NBA, MLB, MLS all downtown? One can dream!

Article from yesterday:

https://frontofficesports.com/phoenix-looks-to-block-tempes-2-1b-deal-with-coyotes/

[asubrt]

10 hours ago, Tumbleweed_Tx said:

sportsball.... my eyes glazed over already.

[hbg.50]

7 hours ago, monarch said:

 the city of dallas always seems to METICULOUSLY planned their respective venues beforehand, to make certain that they age as gracefully as possible.  

Not sure why you think this?  Stadiums have their useful life.   The Ballpark in Arlington is a fine stadium but the city of Dallas didn't plan for their scorching hot summers!  Mark Cuban will likely build a new basketball arena when the American Airlines stadium lease expires.   Texas Stadium was built after the Astrodome but has already been demolished.  Erwin Center in Austin has already been replaced... the list goes on and on.

You are certainly entitled to criticize all the Houston sports venues but comparing Houston to Dallas doesn't really support your argument. 

[monarch]

3 hours ago, steve1363 said:

Not sure why you think this?  Stadiums have their useful life.   The Ballpark in Arlington is a fine stadium but the city of Dallas didn't plan for their scorching hot summers!  Mark Cuban will likely build a new basketball arena when the American Airlines stadium lease expires.   Texas Stadium was built after the Astrodome but has already been demolished.  Erwin Center in Austin has already been replaced... the list goes on and on.

You are certainly entitled to criticize all the Houston sports venues but comparing Houston to Dallas doesn't really support your argument. 

^^^ dude, if it's proving to be this difficult for you to comprehend anything here, then maybe you should just give up or journey into another thread.  actually, upon reading your post, i really do not even know just what you are speaking of.  (whos talking about the "useful life" of stadiums here?)  (who told you that i was "comparing houston to dallas" here?) actually, we are speaking about VENUES and HOSPITALITY DEVELOPMENTS here... and the very fact that theirs seem to always be far superior and totally outclasses anything we have in houston.  once again, THIS IS NOT NEUROSURGERY dude.  just because YOU don't support my argument, doesn't necessarily mean that i don't have an argument.  right?

Edited March 30, 2023 by monarch

[j_cuevas713]

17 hours ago, steve1363 said:

I honestly don't know why Fertitta gets so much hate.   Open your eyes and look around.   He has almost single-handedly revived the University of Houston sports complex and without him UH would NOT be in the Big 12.  The Fertitta Center is universally applauded as the best venue to watch a game in the city of Houston.  The recognition the Post Oak Hotel has received speaks for itself.

You think Crane is an angel?  He fired his GM that JUST won a World Series!  Even the Christian McNair's have been known to say the wrong things ("inmates running the prison")! 🤣

Let's give Fertitta credit for all the good he's done for this city.   No need to throw shade.

I don't think Crane is an angel, I'm just stating what I've heard specifically about Tillman. 

[HoustonMidtown]

Ken Hoffman takes a swing at Houston Astros' pitch to build a new downtown hotel

https://houston.culturemap.com/news/city-life/ken-hoffman-takes-a-swing-at-houston-astros-pitch-to-build-a-new-downtown-hotel/?utm_source=hot-headlines&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=website

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by HoustonMidtown

[hbg.50]

From Ken Hoffman piece...

"I asked my contacts in government and the Houston welcome wagon, is this a good idea, building a hotel and entertainment complex next door to Minute Maid Park? Do we need it? Can we sustain it?

The answer every time was a resounding yes! For a couple of reasons: first, downtown Houston, coming out of Covid, is booming, leadership is creative and budget-minded these days, and most important, if Jim Crane is behind the idea, you can trust it’ll work. The guy’s got a track record."

[Big E]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:52 AM, CREguy13 said:

I know this is off topic from MMP, but to expand on my above comment: imagine if there were some movement behind the scenes to build a brand new state-of-the-art downtown arena to officially lure away the NHL Coyotes to Houston? 

Phoenix is trying to block Tempe's plans for a new stadium, as the Coyotes are currently playing in ASU's arena that seats 4600 people... A brand new stadium could close the deal, if things have been quietly progressing.

NHL, NBA, MLB, MLS all downtown? One can dream!

Article from yesterday:

https://frontofficesports.com/phoenix-looks-to-block-tempes-2-1b-deal-with-coyotes/

Do the Coyotes want to move? It seems more likely that Houston get an expansion team than another team move here.

[Nate99]

17 hours ago, Big E said:

Do the Coyotes want to move? It seems more likely that Houston get an expansion team than another team move here.

The Coyotes are a basket case of a club. Their owner wants to get in on a big mixed use deal that is part of the Tempe stadium plans, so he's all-in on that. I don't know if the NHL could force a sale, but they should, the guy can't manage to find a major league caliber venue. Seems like that would be a condition of franchise ownership.  The ASU venue they use has half the seating capacity of the Tuscon arena that their AHL affiliate uses. 

That said, Seattle and Vegas have done really well, the league may be up for more expansion.