Minute Maid Park Mixed-Use Development

[H-Town Man]

56 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Am I understanding you correctly?  Crane's comparison to the STL Ballpark Village and the Battery in ATL causes you to assume he doesn't plan a highrise?  

Ballpark Village in St Louis includes a 29-story apartment building...

The Battery includes a 16-story Omni Hotel...

Crane specifically mentioned planing apartments, hotel, or both.

Ok. Good point. Where did he mention the apartments or hotel? Recently or a long time ago?

 

[tigereye]

35 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

HCAD still says that property is owned by the Permanent School Fund and FWIW, the rest of that block is owned by a variety of parties, none of which appear to be Crane or the Astros.

For reference, where I got the information of the Astros possibly owning 1511 Preston lot. 

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by tigereye

[Houston19514]

3 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

Ok. Good point. Where did he mention the apartments or hotel? Recently or a long time ago?

 

Last week In the conversation with the media that is the topic of this conversation (sadly and not surprisingly the Chron did not include that part in their story, but it's in video posted in Nate's post above).

[KinkaidAlum]

Was just in St. Louis this summer for the first time ever. I'd love to have something like that. It's a similar footprint as Minute Maid with the only difference being the ballpark in St. Louis is just on the other side of a freeway from the rest of downtown similar to Dynamo Stadium.

 

St. Louis was a fascinating place. So much potential. So many grand brick buildings. So much decay. You can really tell it used to be an "it" city 100 years ago. 

[H-Town Man]

8 minutes ago, KinkaidAlum said:

Was just in St. Louis this summer for the first time ever. I'd love to have something like that. It's a similar footprint as Minute Maid with the only difference being the ballpark in St. Louis is just on the other side of a freeway from the rest of downtown similar to Dynamo Stadium.

 

St. Louis was a fascinating place. So much potential. So many grand brick buildings. So much decay. You can really tell it used to be an "it" city 100 years ago. 

And if only someone had not invented the airplane, St. Louis would still be an "it" city.

 

[Twinsanity02]

54 minutes ago, KinkaidAlum said:

Was just in St. Louis this summer for the first time ever. I'd love to have something like that. It's a similar footprint as Minute Maid with the only difference being the ballpark in St. Louis is just on the other side of a freeway from the rest of downtown similar to Dynamo Stadium.

 

St. Louis was a fascinating place. So much potential. So many grand brick buildings. So much decay. You can really tell it used to be an "it" city 100 years ago. 

From 1900 to around 1915 they were the 4th largest city. Had a remarkable World's Fair. Their population peaked in 1950 and has since fallen over 50%. 

[H-Town Man]

27 minutes ago, Twinsanity02 said:

From 1900 to around 1915 they were the 4th largest city. Had a remarkable World's Fair. Their population peaked in 1950 and has since fallen over 50%. 

The no. 4 spot is kind of a death trap, unfortunately. St. Louis, Detroit, and Philadelphia all spent significant time there in the 20th century and now look like somebody nuked them. I think we'll break the trend, though.

 

[Texasota]

Philadelphia is in much better shape than St. Louis and Detroit, and has been gaining back population for the last decade or so. I don't think it's fair to say that it looks like somebody "nuked" it. It's no Baltimore.

[nate4l1f3]

More upgrades? This is the old ticket window area that’s no longer used. Kind of a dead spot on this side of the stadium. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by nate4l1f3

[wilcal]

1 hour ago, nate4l1f3 said:

More upgrades? This is the old ticket window area that’s no longer used. Kind of a dead spot in this side of the stadium. 

 

 

There's a permit for a team store expansion. I'm guessing that's it. 

[Houston19514]

3 hours ago, KinkaidAlum said:

Was just in St. Louis this summer for the first time ever. I'd love to have something like that. It's a similar footprint as Minute Maid with the only difference being the ballpark in St. Louis is just on the other side of a freeway from the rest of downtown similar to Dynamo Stadium.

 

Are you sure you were in St Louis?   😉   Busch Stadium is NOT on the other side of a freeway from downtown St Louis...

[nate4l1f3]

1 hour ago, wilcal said:

There's a permit for a team store expansion. I'm guessing that's it. 

Ahhh ok. Was hoping they were doing something with the exterior there.  

[KinkaidAlum]

My Bad.

It's two blocks west of the elevated 44

Due North of 64

And just to the West are two overhead flyover ramps into downtown. 

I was in the back of an uber and I am old. That said, Minute Maid feels more connected to downtown Houston than Busch does to downtown St. Louis.

 

[dbigtex56]

5 hours ago, KinkaidAlum said:

Was just in St. Louis this summer for the first time ever. I'd love to have something like that. It's a similar footprint as Minute Maid with the only difference being the ballpark in St. Louis is just on the other side of a freeway from the rest of downtown similar to Dynamo Stadium.

 

St. Louis was a fascinating place. So much potential. So many grand brick buildings. So much decay. You can really tell it used to be an "it" city 100 years ago. 

I had a friend who lived in Soulard, and we'd tour Forest Park, Tower Grove, the Central West End and marvel at the grandeur of the houses and enclaves. The decayed areas were heartbreakingly beautiful. 

[wilcal]

1 hour ago, nate4l1f3 said:

Ahhh ok. Was hoping they were doing something with the exterior there.  

It probably is being revised to be more open to the street. Certainly looks it from the pics. 

[houstontexasjack]

5 hours ago, Texasota said:

Philadelphia is in much better shape than St. Louis and Detroit, and has been gaining back population for the last decade or so. I don't think it's fair to say that it looks like somebody "nuked" it. It's no Baltimore.

Houston’s the Detroit of the future. I’ve seen RoboCop 2.  

[kennyc05]

11 hours ago, houstontexasjack said:

Houston’s the Detroit of the future. I’ve seen RoboCop 2.  

🤦🏽‍♂️

[mattyt36]

18 hours ago, Twinsanity02 said:

From 1900 to around 1915 they were the 4th largest city. Had a remarkable World's Fair. Their population peaked in 1950 and has since fallen over 50%. 

Don't forget the 1904 Olympics

[hindesky]

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by hindesky

[H-Town Man]

20 hours ago, Texasota said:

Philadelphia is in much better shape than St. Louis and Detroit, and has been gaining back population for the last decade or so. I don't think it's fair to say that it looks like somebody "nuked" it. It's no Baltimore.

Ok, fair enough, it has been reviving. I had in the back of my mind The Onion's atlas, Our Dumb Planet, where for Philadelphia it says, "Actual site of a nuclear explo- wait, nope, that's just Philadelphia." But that was printed over a decade ago.

[urbanize713]

McGregor Square in Denver could be  good inspiration. Block sizes comparable? 

https://www.mcgregorsquare.com/?utm_source=google my business&utm_medium=listing&utm_campaign=visit website

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by urbanize713

[nate4l1f3]

15 hours ago, urbanize713 said:

McGregor Square in Denver could be  good inspiration. Block sizes comparable? 

https://www.mcgregorsquare.com/?utm_source=google my business&utm_medium=listing&utm_campaign=visit website

 

We actually have more space to work with if the church allows the Astros to build their garage underground. Also, we’re lucky in the sense that we have the ability for our complex to front the stadium. Colorado’s is separate by the freeway which is why I think they went with the design they did. There’s no reason for the Astros not to have better interaction at street level. 

[arche_757]

Would proximity to the private school hinder potential bar/entertainment venues on the parcel just south of MMP?

[wilcal]

3 hours ago, arche_757 said:

Would proximity to the private school hinder potential bar/entertainment venues on the parcel just south of MMP?

That's actually an interesting question. I think it is property line to property line, too?

 

Marriott Marquis is about 400' from Incarnate Word property line to property line. Houston First building with Kulture is 300'. MMP is about 225'. Old home plate building 422' 

[houstontexasjack]

5 hours ago, arche_757 said:

Would proximity to the private school hinder potential bar/entertainment venues on the parcel just south of MMP?

There’s no state law requirement of a minimum distance between a bar and a school. I’m not sure about a city of Houston ordinance, but I’d think the Astros could apply for a variance if need be. I wouldn’t think School/ bar hours would overlap much. 
 

Now, if the Astros wanted to operate a strip club or other s.o.b. as part of the entertainment, that’d be another story.

[Nate99]

The Westin, Crane’s restaurants in 500 Crawford, and the ballpark itself all sell booze, I don’t think it would be an issue. 

[wilcal]

20 hours ago, houstontexasjack said:

There’s no state law requirement of a minimum distance between a bar and a school. I’m not sure about a city of Houston ordinance, but I’d think the Astros could apply for a variance if need be. I wouldn’t think School/ bar hours would overlap much. 
 

Now, if the Astros wanted to operate a strip club or other s.o.b. as part of the entertainment, that’d be another story.

Just read Chapter 3 Article I of the city ordinance, and you are right, Texas law allows the city to make alcohol free zones.

The default is 300 feet from any public or private school, hospital, or church, and it can be extended up to 1,000 feet.

The city does have the ability to grant variances, but it looks like it has to be voted on by city council. 

Additionally, the ordinance specifically carves out hotels in the central business district. Also, any restaurant in the CBD is carved out assuming there is no exterior signage that says that they sell alcohol and there is not outdoor seating.

Also, there's a special carve-out for sports stadiums. 

This city sometimes lol.  

Edited November 14, 2021 by wilcal

[arche_757]

But it is a church, and a school.  Wonder what difference that would make?

Edited November 14, 2021 by arche_757

[wilcal]

2 hours ago, arche_757 said:

But it is a church, and a school.  Wonder what difference that would make?

I think it is none in this situation. I don't know if the 300' and 1000' zones are published anywhere in map form. 

[Houston19514]

18 hours ago, arche_757 said:

But it is a church, and a school.  Wonder what difference that would make?

Why would that make a difference?  The same standard applies to both.  

But FWIW, I believe the church and the school are technically two separate entities in this case. If the ordinance applies here, it would presumably have to be measured from both the church property and the school. property.