Downtown Tunnel Retail News & Updates

[Jax]

I only guessed about NYC and Chicago (since NYC has so many tall buildings and Chicago is called the "windy city"), but the wind tunnel effect was worse in Montreal, at least between the McGill College Metro station and my classes at McGill. I don't know if the fact that the street was on a steep hill lined with 30-40 story buildings and I was walking up the hill made things worse, but it was pretty damn windy and cold on that street! I remember the wind being so strong it went right through my pants and coat and hat and scarf! That makes me more glad to be in Houston than anything...

[moni]

I only guessed about NYC and Chicago (since NYC has so many tall buildings and Chicago is called the "windy city"), but the wind tunnel effect was worse in Montreal, at least between the McGill College Metro station and my classes at McGill. I don't know if the fact that the street was on a steep hill lined with 30-40 story buildings and I was walking up the hill made things worse, but it was pretty damn windy and cold on that street! I remember the wind being so strong it went right through my pants and coat and hat and scarf! That makes me more glad to be in Houston than anything...

That's a "wind chill" factor, and I hate that cold weather too.

[musicman]

Sorry to hear that your vanity forces you underground, but that's certainly your choice. But, my question is this...assuming that no tunnel access is built, will you refuse to go to HP? Do you know anyone that would?

a larger portion of the HP clientele will be going by car and parking on the street or in the garage. not having access to underground tunnel system won't be an issue.

[RedScare]

Agree 100%.

[2112]

...The weird thing is that Montreal has an extensive tunnel system, probably larger than the one in Houston due to all the subway connections, and the weather is worse for most of the year (snow in November - April with Jan and Feb temperatures reaching 30 below freezing). Yet there are STILL more people in the streets.

Here's a theory: maybe it's more palatable to walk around in freezing Montreal temperatures, where you can still bundle up with as many layers as you want, and a nice long coat. Compare that to walking around in 100% sticky, stinky, and sweaty 95 degree Houston humidity, where there is NOTHING you can do to compensate for that. Add on top of that the lack of plentiful street retail, cafes, etc., to make it worth putting up with the stickyness.

[ProHouston]

Here's a theory: maybe it's more palatable to walk around in freezing Montreal temperatures, where you can still bundle up with as many layers as you want, and a nice long coat. Compare that to walking around in 100% sticky, stinky, and sweaty 95 degree Houston humidity, where there is NOTHING you can do to compensate for that. Add on top of that the lack of plentiful street retail, cafes, etc., to make it worth putting up with the stickyness.

I think most would agree that Montreal weather is way worse than Houston. At least in Houston you can simply get up from your desk and walk outside, there should at least be a breeze. In Montreal (or any cold city) you have to spend 10 minutes just putting all your "layers" on just to take them off again when you get to your destination. If I lived there I'd never go outside. That frigid cold is way more uncomfortable than Houston's heat. At least when you get to your destination the A/C cools you down rapidly.

[Jax]

After living in Montreal and then Houston, I can vouch for the extreme cold being even more miserable than the heat (the heat doesn't bother me as much as many other people). Maybe it's because my mom's from Atlanta and the love of a hot climate is in my blood. I stand by my explanation that it's more palatable to walk around in freezing Montreal because there's just more to do and more to see on the surface than in the tunnels. Virtually all of the businesses offices restaurants and schools have entrances on street level. There are businesses in the tunnels but they're more like fast food courts, and Montreal, like Houston, is a food city. I think it's just more desirable to be outside and look at the architecture, watch pedestrians and see the sky then to be underground. Occasionally I used the tunnels in the winter as a shortcut to a subway station but not because I wanted to shop or eat in the tunnels.

[jgriff]

I think most would agree that Montreal weather is way worse than Houston. At least in Houston you can simply get up from your desk and walk outside, there should at least be a breeze. In Montreal (or any cold city) you have to spend 10 minutes just putting all your "layers" on just to take them off again when you get to your destination. If I lived there I'd never go outside. That frigid cold is way more uncomfortable than Houston's heat. At least when you get to your destination the A/C cools you down rapidly.

I would disagree. If you walk a few blocks in June during lunch you may have to go home and change clothes. You simply cannot walk around outside in Houston weather during June and go back to work. Montreal may be cold but the cold doesn't soak you in stinky sweat. There is no way I would ever walk to work in Houston unless I lived less than a few hundred feet from the front door of my building. I once worked in a building whose property was connected to the apartment complex I lived in. I didn't walk it once.

[ProHouston]

I would disagree. If you walk a few blocks in June during lunch you may have to go home and change clothes. You simply cannot walk around outside in Houston weather during June and go back to work. Montreal may be cold but the cold doesn't soak you in stinky sweat. There is no way I would ever walk to work in Houston unless I lived less than a few hundred feet from the front door of my building. I once worked in a building whose property was connected to the apartment complex I lived in. I didn't walk it once.

I'd consider you on one extreme. Many of my coworkers and I walk to lunch all the time, and we work Uptown. Many also walk to work from their nearby apartments.

[Jax]

Yeah and I walk too. I often walk 5 blocks to the metro rail and go downtown and walk to dinner or the theater or whatever even happens to be there (like the art car parade). It's definitely nicer to walk in shorts and sandals but I can handle walking in my work clothes too (pants and a short sleeve polo shirt). Maybe I would agree with jgriff if I wore a business suit with a jacket and tie every day. That may account for our difference of opinions.

Also I think it's two completely different things to walk in direct sunlight and to walk in the shade.

[jgriff]

I'd consider you on one extreme. Many of my coworkers and I walk to lunch all the time, and we work Uptown. Many also walk to work from their nearby apartments.

I wear long sleeve dress shirts to work most of the time. There is just no way to walk very far in Houston dressed like that in 90+ degree weather and be presentable for work when you get back. You could do it in 0 degree weather just fine, it might be uncomfortable but it doesn't ruin you're appearance or make you smell bad. I think this is one of the main reasons that public transporation is so difficult in Houston.

We do have one guy here that rides a bike to work every morning. He pretty much takes a shower in the sink when he gets here. It makes everyone very uncomfortable and people talk about him behind his back quite a bit. He's known as the "Crazy Bike Guy".

Edited June 26, 2007 by jgriff

[The Great Hizzy!]

I wear long sleeve dress shirts to work most of the time. There is just no way to walk very far in Houston dressed like that in 90+ degree weather and be presentable for work when you get back.

Quite a few people would disagree. You'd be surprised just how much walking (and in a non-walking city at that) some people do during the summer. You may need to take some extra measures (bring a towelette with you, etc) but it can be done.

I'm a fairly big guy and I often walk six to eight blocks downtown during the summer. It's not the most comfortable walk for sure but I've never been in a situation afterwards where I needed to change clothes or shower, so maybe it depends on the person.

[Jax]

I guess you can look presentable after walking in -30 (way below zero) except that when the ice that forms on your face melt and look just like sweat! And your hair looks worse after wearing a tuque (wool hat, that's what us Canadians call them) than walking through Houston's downtown 'wind tunnel'.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Jax

[RedScare]

Agree with Hizzy and Jax. We all recognize that there is a segment of the population that is so averse to the outdoors that they find it hard to believe that others not only can walk outdoors, but enjoy it. And, for those people, downtown does have ample parking and tunnels. But, their is a large population that thinks otherwise. I wear a suit daily, and walk everywhere downtown. I cannot remember the last time I went in the tunnels (my office is not connected). True, I make concessions. I wear shirts that are one collar size larger. I wear comfortable shoes. I wear deoderant. On the half dozen days a year when the heat/humidity combo is so high that nothing helps, I will duck into a restroom to towel off. I find it a small price to pay versus the time when I would drive 8 blocks to the federal courthouse and look for parking, which often was STILL 2 blocks away.

40% of downtown workers take public transit. ALL of them walk. Many of the rest of us walk, too. Frankly, the number of people in suits, even downtown, is relatively small. And, if seeing someone sweat makes you uncomfortable in Houston, well, what can I say?

[jgriff]

I spent some time in Hamburg for a while, it was around 30 deg F and very windy most of the time. I never had a problem walking around town. You could walk around all day in that weather. You can put on as many clothes as you want to stay warm. There's only so many clothes you can take off before being arrested though...

I can fix my hair with a comb at work after removing a hat, a head full of sweat is a lot worse. It's the smell that does it. There's no way to get rid of it without a shower.

I work on the West side of town though so your experience may vary downtown. It's about a 1 mile walk down roads with no sidewalks to the nearest businesses. The only people you see walking around here are lunchtime joggers, gang members and homeless people. We recently built a new building and many of the employees asked for showers for the lunchtime joggers. Management refused.

[Jax]

I work on the West side of town though so your experience may vary downtown. It's about a 1 mile walk down roads with no sidewalks to the nearest businesses. The only people you see walking around here are lunchtime joggers, gang members and homeless people. We recently built a new building and many of the employees asked for showers for the lunchtime joggers. Management refused.

You work in west Houston or the west side of downtown? I thought we were talking about downtown here. I think downtown is much more "pedestrian friendly" than West Houston for sure, so if that's where you are I can understand. No sidewalks makes it the absolute worst. Even with sidewalks, walking on sidewalks along strip centers and busy roads with few trees in the direct sun (ie- Westheimer past the galleria) is completely different from walking downtown. If that's the case, you would probably notice a big difference walking downtown (more shade, less gang members in the streets, the occasional skyscraper induced breeze, etc.).

That being said, I work west of the Medical Center (near the Astrodome but not close enough to the metro rail for it to be useful). Walking isn't really an option here. There are sidewalks but lots of strip centers with little shade. I kinda wish I was IN the medical center, then I could walk to lunch instead of driving.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Jax

[jgriff]

You work in west Houston or the west side of downtown?

I work near the West Belt and Westpark. No walking possible around here...

If I worked downtown I could see myself walking a bit.

That being said, I beleive I would rather walk down the Beltway access road in sub freezing temperatures than typical June Houston weather. I think 90 degress and raining is worse than 0 degrees and snowing. If I had gone outside yesterday and came back in I probably would have been fired.

[lockmat]

This tunneling subject could easily be it's own thread...mods

[Subdude]

This tunneling subject could easily be it's own thread...mods

Done.

[ArchitecturalPRGirl]

Wow. There are more wimps in downtown than I thought. We need more escalators in front of our fitness centers, too.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I am going outside to finish building my fence. I hope I don't break a sweat.

THANK GOD FOR THE TUNNELS!!!

My office is on the opposite end of downtown where there aren't many restaurants. I also have several client meetings over on the other side as well. Anyone noticed that it has been raining for a month!!!??? I would have been screwed without the tunnels. Aside from the rain, being in a suit I would be drenched in sweat by the time I got to lunch or a meeting, then drenched again once I got back to the office. Besides the fact I don't have to smell piss and deal with pan handlers like I do when I walk on the street.

Thumbs up for the tunnels.

[tomv]

The poor tunnels. Yes, they suck life downwards, and that's almost a fatal flaw. For instance, I don't think anyone is clamering for a tunnel system in the Medical Center area. God, if anyone needs to get outside at lunch, it has to be that group Or the Galleria area, for that matter. Everybody wants Street Life.

But the tunnels are here, theyr'e really neat, and convenient, and a certified tourist attraction. Can't we all just get along?

[tomv]

Addendum: The CVS on Main has two entrances, one at street level and one below ground. That's a start. Much more like that is needed.

[Vertigo58]

THANK GOD FOR THE TUNNELS!!!

My office is on the opposite end of downtown where there aren't many restaurants. I also have several client meetings over on the other side as well. Anyone noticed that it has been raining for a month!!!??? I would have been screwed without the tunnels. Aside from the rain, being in a suit I would be drenched in sweat by the time I got to lunch or a meeting, then drenched again once I got back to the office. Besides the fact I don't have to smell piss and deal with pan handlers like I do when I walk on the street.

Thumbs up for the tunnels.

Double Thumbs up for the tunnels!

These are not just handy for weather reasons, but for safety reasons they also work perfect.

I used to give tours to many visitors from other parts of the country and from around the world. They were eager to check out our tunnel system. Yep, its known around the world folks, maybe not like the dome but it still is known to many. Let's face it, our city weather is not pleasant. To younger people its no big deal to walk above in the sweltering heat & humidity and other extreme temps but to the more seasoned group the tunnels are perfect. Notice also how handy they are for the caterers from local cafes and for delivery

guys, etc. I would love to one design an entertainment venue of some kind under ground. I have been to some cities where they have gone about 3 levels under. That was cool! Some can be as negative as they want but Houston is known for innovation and the tunnel system is great. I hope they keep spreading out all over. One day it could really come in handy to in an emergency. Be positive!

[TheNiche]

For instance, I don't think anyone is clamering for a tunnel system in the Medical Center area.

From the 2005 skywalk plan, an outgrowth of the 2002 pedestrian circulation plan, developed by the Texas Medical Center, Inc., which represents the 45 member institutions that comprise the Texas Medical Center.

[RedScare]

I hope they keep spreading out all over. One day it could really come in handy to in an emergency. Be positive!

This is true. They came in really handy in 2001. It would have been nearly impossible to flood as many buildings without the tunnels there to help.

[MidtownCoog]

Let me in. I'm starving!

[Vertigo58]

From the 2005 skywalk plan, an outgrowth of the 2002 pedestrian circulation plan, developed by the Texas Medical Center, Inc., which represents the 45 member institutions that comprise the Texas Medical Center.

Wonderful! It would be great to have several persons create several new designs and allow people to view and see which plan they like. Just a thought.

[HtownWxBoy]

I used to give tours to many visitors from other parts of the country and from around the world. They were eager to check out our tunnel system. Yep, its known around the world folks, maybe not like the dome but it still is known to many. Let's face it, our city weather is not pleasant. To younger people its no big deal to walk above in the sweltering heat & humidity and other extreme temps but to the more seasoned group the tunnels are perfect. Notice also how handy they are for the caterers from local cafes and for delivery guys, etc. I would love to one design an entertainment venue of some kind under ground. I have been to some cities where they have gone about 3 levels under. That was cool! Some can be as negative as they want but Houston is known for innovation and the tunnel system is great. I hope they keep spreading out all over. One day it could really come in handy to in an emergency. Be positive!

Houston's weather is only unpleasant (hot and humid) for like 4 months or so out of the year... basically mid may through mid / late september... the other 8 months are generally nice... key word "generally". November, December, January, February, March, April... most of the time it's beautiful here!... yes it can get a little cold a few days during the winter, but if people can walk through Manhattan in the winter people can walk through Houston those very few day in the winter when it's really cold. I never understood why some people make it seem like Houston is hot and humid 12 months out of the year. Most of the year our weather is great!!

I can see having the tunnels for people to just walk through when the weather is unpleasant (hot/humid, raining)... I just wish that the businesses stayed above ground.... have the tunnels be just hallways people can walk through without restaurants, businesses, etc. Just my opinion.

[Houston19514]

The tunnels are there. People like them. It is highly unlikely they will be removed or abandoned any time soon, if ever. I think the best we can do is make our peace with that and hope that as downtown comes more alive that the tunnel system could be integrated more closely with the surface, as was mentioned above. More visible and accessible tunnel entrances would/could help establish more of a flow and closer integration between the streets and the tunnels. As it is now, most of the tunnel ingress and egress is directly into the office buildings etc. The other thing we could hope for is that the hours of the tunnels and the businesses in the tunnels get extended.

[ricco67]

The tunnels are there. People like them. It is highly unlikely they will be removed or abandoned any time soon, if ever. I think the best we can do is make our peace with that and hope that as downtown comes more alive that the tunnel system could be integrated more closely with the surface, as was mentioned above. More visible and accessible tunnel entrances would/could help establish more of a flow and closer integration between the streets and the tunnels. As it is now, most of the tunnel ingress and egress is directly into the office buildings etc. The other thing we could hope for is that the hours of the tunnels and the businesses in the tunnels get extended.

The Downtown tunnels aren't anything to sweat (so to speak) about. They close after business hour anyway. foot traffic will increase outside when HP is done.

My biggest gripe with the tunnels over at TMC is that they don't like building together from different companies.

I can take the tunnel(walkway) from St. Lukes to their professional tower, but I directly access Scurlock or Methodist hospital from there, and so it goes all down the line.