Downtown Tunnel Retail News & Updates

[ToolMan]

I don't think you wouldn't have to worry about being late for you job. There are a lot of fast food places in the tunnels for a quick bite to eat, but without the tunnels they would be outside. I quick bite to eat at Wendy's, Taco Cabana, Alanti, whatever...by the way downtown needs a Taco Bell.

The tunnels do become overcrowded at times and it takes over an hour for a "sit-down" meal. Or you don't have a place to sit in the food court.

[kjb434]

cool, thanks for the info guys.

[editor]

I like tunnel systems when they're more open and accessable and less tunnel-like. I think a great example of this is 1000 Main. I find it quite invitiing. Not so with the tunnels beneath Bank of America.

[editor]

I actually considered setting up shop in the Houston tunnel system. There was a short time when it seemed financially viable to do the web site full-time and quit my real job. I was going to sell posters and prints of the city in a little store and work on the web site in between customers.

Anyway, when I tried to price some space, I was shocked. They were charging as much for tunnel-level space as for street-level space. I think that's part of the problem. If rents were cheaper down below, more stores would open there and attract more people. But then, it's not like there isn't plenty of street-level space available in Houston still.

[travelguy_73]

I guess the Downtown forum is the best place to put this link...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/03/realesta...serland&emc=rss

"If I could take a cement mixer and pour cement in and clog up the tunnels, I would do it today," said Laura Miller, the mayor of Dallas, referring to the city's tunnels. "It was the worst urban planning decision that Dallas has ever made. They thought it was hip and groovy to create an underground community, but it was a death knell."

read the rest at link above...

[Kirzania]

There is already a thread started on this topic.

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...wtopic=3024&hl=

[MidtownCoog]

Taco Bell!

I have been saying this for a long time.

Even if it's like the Taco Bells at the Satellite at UH. A grad and go system would still work well.

[Trophy Property]

I actually considered setting up shop in the Houston tunnel system.  There was a short time when it seemed financially viable to do the web site full-time and quit my real job.  I was going to sell posters and prints of the city in a little store and work on the web site in between customers. 

Anyway, when I tried to price some space, I was shocked.  They were charging as much for tunnel-level space as for street-level space.  I think that's part of the problem.  If rents were cheaper down below, more stores would open there and attract more people.  But then, it's not like there isn't plenty of street-level space available in Houston still.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you remember what the price per square foot was?

[dbigtex56]

existing thread - merged topics.

[editor]

Do you remember what the price per square foot was?

Not off the top of my head. I seem to recall that the total for the space would have been in the neighborhood of $1,400/month.

[Trophy Property]

Not off the top of my head.  I seem to recall that the total for the space would have been in the neighborhood of $1,400/month.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have never worked in the CBD so I have not spent alot of time in the tunnels. Is there a lot of space available?

I would think that $1400 is pretty high for the amount of space you were needind (500 sf?)

[ToolMan]

I like tunnel systems when they're more open and accessable and less tunnel-like

I totally agree. I always have people asking we how to access the tunnels. They are usually not marked anywhere.

[editor]

I have never worked in the CBD so I have not spent alot of time in the tunnels.  Is there a lot of space available?

I would think that $1400 is pretty high for the amount of space you were needind (500 sf?)

I seem to recall I was looking for about that size. Maybe a little less. I remember thinking that the storefront space would cost almost as much as my rent. At the time I know I was paying $1,475/month, so that's where I got the $1,400 figure.

Part of the problem was getting the owners of the space to take me seriously. I called the number on the sign two or three times and left messages. It was only when I called back and left a message that didn't have the word "tunnel" in it that they called me. And then they were total jerks.

[Houston19514]

I actually considered setting up shop in the Houston tunnel system.  There was a short time when it seemed financially viable to do the web site full-time and quit my real job.  I was going to sell posters and prints of the city in a little store and work on the web site in between customers. 

Anyway, when I tried to price some space, I was shocked.  They were charging as much for tunnel-level space as for street-level space.  I think that's part of the problem.  If rents were cheaper down below, more stores would open there and attract more people.  But then, it's not like there isn't plenty of street-level space available in Houston still.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Given that most of the pedestrian and retail market exists in the tunnels and not at street-level, I'm surprised they don't charge MORE for the tunnel-level space.

[WesternGulf]

Do you think this city would be interested in actually bringing up the tunnel retail to street level? If the city was actually interested, would it be a bad idea to put aside some funds to actually pay people to move to street level? Plus it would bring a need for urban retail space in downtown that could fill up some parking spaces. Of course this is all an attempt to increase pedestrian traffic and not hiding it underground. As far as the weather, I am sick of hearing about this. It is about time to put some planning in use that makes walking in 80+ degree weather with 100% humidity more convenient and comfortable. Another idea is for one of these downtown management companies to start thinking outside the box and actually advertise and embrace the importance of increasing ped traffic to jump start a more lively downtown.

[sevfiv]

i am not so sure about transplanting the retail, but, as brought up a while ago in a different thread, i think it would be neat if we had more street vendors - as in literal-on-the-street type things. but that's just me in my fantasy land

[WesternGulf]

I don't know about you, but I am sure street vendors are only going to do so much. Personally, I do not think they are enough to bring someone from that 30th floor office to the sidewalk to get a hoagie and some chips. Plus aren't we seeing the success of street vendors around the Court area now? Looks like a normal day to me.

If someone gets a warning ahead of time that say Beck's Prime, probably the most successful eatery in the tunnel, is moving into that new ratail garage at Main and Walker, can we just think about how many people will be flocking to that place during lunch time? This is if you know how packed the place is on a normal day.

[RedScare]

As one who works downtown in a building not connected to the tunnels, I would applaud such a move, though I know that the building owners make a lot of money renting tunnel space. While the city may not pay to raise the shops to ground level, it certainly can encourage Houston friendly architectural elements, such as awnings and overhangs that both shade the sidewalk and provide shelter from the rain.

However, I must say that those who won't set foot outside are fatasses and p*ssies. I walk every day out there in the sun, rain, humidity, and yesterday, 24 blocks in 34 degree, windy weather. Sure, it was cold, but I got a good brisk walk. If Houstonians started shaming those that won't walk 4 blocks for lunch, instead of letting them brag about how they are too important or good to do so, it would change. In Austin, Denver and Seattle, workers brag about walking and biking, while here, they brag how much gas their pickup uses.

We should be shaming those people, just as they try to shame me for smoking. Their is hope, however. The renovation on Main Street, formerly Houston's ugliest thoroughfare, has brought many street level shops with it. Maybe not as fast as we like it, but they are coming. And new shops bring new shoppers. At lunchtime, the sidewalks around Main are pretty busy.

[WesternGulf]

Thank you, but I must say that culture can be a little overrated. Most of the blame is put on the people rather than the built environment. For example, I hear people say, Houston is such a driving culture. It is not that we actually choose to be as people, but it is what is more convenient and more comfortable in this city. I believe we are not any different from the people in say Seattle, Denver, or Portland that have a whole "walking culture", but it is more how their city is built.

[RedScare]

Please explain how it is more convenient or comfortable to walk in a hilly city (all 3 that I mentioned) as opposed to a flat one (Houston)?

While you're at it, please explain why Houston's weather makes it harder to walk than Austin (hot and cold), Denver and Seattle?

Edited December 9, 2005 by RedScare

[WesternGulf]

Please explain how it is more convenient or comfortable to walk in a hilly city (all 3 that I mentioned) as opposed to a flat one (Houston)?

While you're at it, please explain why Houston's weather makes it harder to walk than Austin (hot and cold), Denver and Seattle?

Let's see here. As a person that has been in Seattle and Denver, yes two very hilly cities, is it really that much more surprising that their downtown and surrounding neighborhoods are more livelier than say Houston?

Parking structures do not hinder the streetscape in their downtowns as much as this city and parking is premium as a whole, where as in this city for every building that goes up in downtown, so does 300 parking spaces.

While Houston is booming with these three story towhomes with huge driveways and front laoded garges, Seattle, Portland, and Denver are booming with midrise mixed use residentials in their neighborhoods where people have the convenience of walking out their apartments and shopping at retail at the bottom floor of their building or the apartment across the street or around the corner. Well someone in Midtown Houston can say, "Hell, I can walk to the local Cold Stone Ice Cream Shop in the shopping Center around the corner from me and not have a problem." Well, does everyone has the same mindset as this guy when it is so much more convenient to park in that sea of asphalt in front of the retail center? Nooooo.

It is obvious as diverse Houston is. How many transplants from some of the most lively cities in the world, like Hong Kong, New York, Mexico City, Seoul, etc change their lifestlye that they had back home when living in a car dependant city like Houston? If it is not for economic reasons, they will probably take the car route to go the grocery store that is 3 blocks away to pick up 3 things.

Edited December 9, 2005 by WesternGulf

[sevfiv]

oh i know, i am sure that street vendors wouldn't go over too well...i just think it would be neat...plus, i have to remind myself that most people, unlike me, would rather go to say, beck's prime for lunch, rather than the hot dog vendor on the corner (plus, having an iron stomach helps out a little bit )

[VicMan]

I would have both tunnel and street level retail. Perhaps the tunnel retail can also be at the ground, e.g. the Downtown CVS.

[editor]

I would have both tunnel and street level retail. Perhaps the tunnel retail can also be at the ground, e.g. the Downtown CVS.

I've seen in a couple of cities where the underground retail and the street-level retail of the same store were connected via a staircase.

[WesternGulf]

I've seen in a couple of cities where the underground retail and the street-level retail of the same store were connected via a staircase.

That's the case with CVS.

[editor]

That's the case with CVS.

I always thought it would be cool to do this with a toy store or one of those Gap Kids places because you could have a slide for the children from one floor to the other.

[Subdude]

Dallas is working on incentives to move retailers from their tunnels to street level, which may eventually lead to closing some of the tunnel system. So it probably can be done, but it would require a major commitment on the part of the city. I think here it would be prove to be very unpopular, and any benefits not too apparent.

Dallas Business Journal article.

[WesternGulf]

Dallas is working on incentives to move retailers from their tunnels to street level, which may eventually lead to closing some of the tunnel system. So it probably can be done, but it would require a major commitment on the part of the city. I think here it would be prove to be very unpopular, and any benefits not too apparent.

Dallas Business Journal article.

WOW. They really took the thoughts out of my head and put it down on paper. It seems like they have the right idea. To bad we are still catering to the tunnel. With every new building that goes up, it seems like it is accessed by the tunnel. Even the retail that is suppose to be at the new garage at Main and Walker is suppose to be connected. Its kind of like how we are hustling to get money for rapid transit but continue to spend hundreds of millions of dollars for new freeways and expansions, but with the whole tunnel deal I guess this city still think thats what makes downtown "cool" or unique.

Edited December 11, 2005 by WesternGulf

[editor]

I don't think tunnel systems should be closed, but there should be incentives for businesses to fill in the street-level shops first, then underground.

Here in Chicago (yeah, I know you hate when I say that) the mayor's new building has quite a nice tunnel system connection (they call it a Pedway). It's all bright and new and glass and wide with lots of space for a couple of dozen shops. I'm eager to see what becomes of this space because if any space in the Pedway system stands a chance of flourishing, this is it. It connects two commuter rail stations with two subway lines and a department store. There is an amazing lack of underground retail in Chicago even though I can sit still in the pedway and count people by the THOUSANDS passing through each hour. I've never understood it.

[VicMan]

Downtown Houston needs more stores.

What if we lured F.A.O. Schwarz back and got a Downtown location connected to the tunnel. Also, would a Downtown Jillian's work?