Downtown Tunnel Retail News & Updates

[editor]

Downtown Houston needs more stores.

What if we lured F.A.O. Schwarz back and got a Downtown location connected to the tunnel. Also, would a Downtown Jillian's work?

Jillians would be a great way to fill up the unused portion of Bayou Place.

Edited December 11, 2005 by editor

[firstngoal]

I don't think tunnel systems should be closed, but there should be incentives for businesses to fill in the street-level shops first, then underground.

Here in Chicago (yeah, I know you hate when I say that) the mayor's new building has quite a nice tunnel system connection (they call it a Pedway). It's all bright and new and glass and wide with lots of space for a couple of dozen shops. I'm eager to see what becomes of this space because if any space in the Pedway system stands a chance of flourishing, this is it. It connects two commuter rail stations with two subway lines and a department store. There is an amazing lack of underground retail in Chicago even though I can sit still in the pedway and count people by the THOUSANDS passing through each hour. I've never understood it.

Right on. I'm all for pedestrian activity in downtown Houston, especially at street level. However, I have little opposition to the tunnels and I can't believe how people knock them all the time. It is a PEDESTRIAN oriented environment... last time I checked, there wasn't anyone killed by an inattentive bus driver (which happened twice in 2004 downtown) in the tunnel level. You don't have to worry about people running red lights and taking out downtown workers (I had a friend that was hit by a DHL van downtown - which had run a red light). People are walking in a safe environment, supporting downtown establishments without having to drive. Where else can you say that in Houston?? Minneapolis, one of the most livable cities in America with a terrific downtown and new light rail system, also has one of the most extensive skyway systems in the world. It works virtually the same way as the tunnels.

I am all for enhanced entrances, particularly on street level, to the tunnel system. 1000 Main and the Wells Fargo Building have nice private entrances into the tunnels which are good examples for the City. I'm not quite sure why the Mayor's Urban Design Committee hasn't taken a look at that...

As for Dallas, I worked in downtown Dallas for three years. There is absolutely no comparison between Houston and Dallas on the tunnel front. The tunnels are awful there - they are disjointed and to go from one side of downtown to the other you have to walk along street level (along parking lots in many cases) anyway in most instances... and the city should do something to promote more retail coming to street level. I'm happy to hear that Dallas is addressing it.

Meanwhile, back in my dear H-town, I think a balanced downtown retail system on both street level and in the tunnel system would work... and should be addressed by the city and downtown property owners. Entrances (I envision something like the subway entrances along State Street in Chicago) into the tunnels at key landmarks downtown would be a great start.

[editor]

How interesting that you should mention Minneapolis. I just returned from there, and made extensive use of its skyway system to get around. It really is a marvelous thing. Like one really long, twisty mall. Cincinnati has one, too, but much much smaller. But at least in the Cincinnati skyway there's an actual mall at the center.

Here's a map of the MPLS skyway system map. Sorry it's a little fuzzy. I was testing out a new lens:

Pretty much if it's not connected to the skyway, it's a surface parking lot.

last time I checked, there wasn't anyone killed by an inattentive bus driver (which happened twice in 2004 downtown) in the tunnel level.

In March, 1999 a young lady pulled me out of the way of a Metro bus racing past the Chase Tower. I ended up marrying her.

[VicMan]

Isn't there a new Target coming up in the Heights?

I think Downtown should have a two-story Target with special escalators. The Target would be next to a parking garage.

[editor]

Isn't there a new Target coming up in the Heights?

I think Downtown should have a two-story Target with special escalators. The Target would be next to a parking garage.

I don't see why not. Downtown Minneapolis (Target headquarters) has one, and there are a bunch in other cities. I love those weird escallators for the shopping carts.

[VicMan]

Maybe we should write Jillians, Target, and Toys R' Us and ask for Downtown locations.

[TJones]

oh i know, i am sure that street vendors wouldn't go over too well...i just think it would be neat...plus, i have to remind myself that most people, unlike me, would rather go to say, beck's prime for lunch, rather than the hot dog vendor on the corner (plus, having an iron stomach helps out a little bit )

Mmmmmmmmmm. street dog, nothing like a good ol' link of pressed lips and @$$holes to make for an enjoyable lunch experience. If I'm eating junkfood, hmmmm, let's see, fresh 100% all beef patty from Beck's or possible ecoli poisoning from Guido the hotdog pimp ? I don't know, tough decision. >

Edited December 12, 2005 by TJones

[editor]

Maybe we should write Jillians, Target, and Toys R' Us and ask for Downtown locations.

I wouldn't count on it with TRU. Their financial situation isn't very good these days. And they've been closing stores, especially downtown ones, over the last few years.

[RedScare]

Rather than get rid of the tunnel merchants, I'd like to see more incentives to open on the street. As the restaurants succeed on the street, more will come out of the tunnels, leaving the tunnels available for business support merchants, like Kinkos, that close when businesses close.

I think sidewalk access to the tunnels is also a great idea. That would still put more people on the streets, without forcing the tunnels to close.

Interesting thing about the Minneapolis skywalks. I read an article a little while back where they bemoaning the fact that the skywalks take people off the sidewalk as well. They wondered what to do about them, just as we talk about our tunnels.

[WesternGulf]

All of this stuff came with urban renewal. Street car lines stripped up to serve the car, businesses torn down to make way for parking, skywalks because they thought it was forward thinking, although in Minneapolis, temperatures below 0 can be kind of harsh.

[bachanon]

i agree with the concept of incentives for street level retail; however, without a larger downtown population (office, entertainment and residential) the viability of more retail will not emerge. the idea to have retail(such as gap, bookstores, etc.) with entrances and visibility from both the tunnel and street levels, along with public street level entrances to the tunnel system would increase traffic on both levels.

it will be exciting to see what comes about in the next 5-10 years.

[MidtownCoog]

Many parts of the tunnel could not handle extra capacity.

Under 2 Shell, 1001 McKinney and 1001 Louisana come to mind. Pretty tight in those areas.

And downtown is an 8-5 CBD.

Again, this would be putting things downtown just to have them downtown. Many of the things we want to see downtown are less than 3 miles away to begin with.

[VicMan]

Many parts of the tunnel could not handle extra capacity.

Under 2 Shell, 1001 McKinney and 1001 Louisana come to mind. Pretty tight in those areas.

And downtown is an 8-5 CBD.

Again, this would be putting things downtown just to have them downtown. Many of the things we want to see downtown are less than 3 miles away to begin with.

I am going to rummage through several chain store brands which do not have Downtown locations and see which ones are likely to get a Downtown location:

Now Randall's is in Midtown, so it would make no sense to create a downtown Randall's. Fiesta won't work either as Fiesta has a Midtown location.

There is a Kroger in the East End and a Kroger in the River Oaks/Montrose area, so I doubt a Downtown Kroger will work. The nearest HEB is in the OST area, and the next closest in areas like Bellaire and an area northwest of The Heights. But then there's Central Market in the River Oaks area. Hmm..

Unless Target already has a location under construction nearby, it would make perfect sense in Downtown Houston. The Target nearest Downtown Houston is the Galleria Target. Wal-Mart would not be welcome there (the closest Wal-Mart is northwest of Downtown outside of the Loop).

The nearest Best Buy is also in the Galleria area, but I do not know if a Best Buy would make sense in the Downtown area. The nearest Circuit City is also in the Galleria area.

Sears has a Midtown location, so I doubt that will work.

Marshall's has a big Mega Marshall's in the River Oaks area, so that will not work. T.J. Maxx also has a River Oaks location.

Barnes and Noble's closest location is the "Bookstop/Alabama Theatre" in the Montrose area. Borders also has a River Oaks location. Still, would one or the other work in Downtown? Maybe an additional location could be supported once more yuppies and students move in Downtown and Midtown.

EDIT: Added quote

Edited December 13, 2005 by VicMan

[RedScare]

Target is under construction as we speak, over at the corner of Taylor and I-10, about a mile from downtown, so that won't work.

[VicMan]

As for more possibilities...

Pollo Campero, a famous Guatemalan Chicken chain, has a South Wayside location 4.7 miles away. Is this too close?

The closest Dunkin Donuts is 6.26 miles away in the East End.

The closest Chili's is at 3215 Southwest Frwy. Is this too close?

The only Houston Jillian's is at the Marq*E.

Applebee's is a possibility in Downtown as the closest location to Downtown is outside the 610 Loop along Wallisville Road.

The closest Ross is at Weslayan Plaza north and east of West University Place.

Dairy Queen has no locations inside the 610 Loop. The closest location to Downtown is northwest of Downtown.

The closest Baskin Robbins is across from Lamar High School in Upper Kirby. As chain restaurants are of a different nature, perhaps Baskin Robbins can go to Downtown.

The closest Sbarros are in the Galleria and Memorial City Mall

Edited December 13, 2005 by VicMan

[editor]

I could see a Wal-Mart on the Eastern edge of towntown.

[VicMan]

I'm not sure if there are any Wal-Marts in major city CBD's. New York City as a whole has zero Wal-Marts while K-Mart has locations in the CBD.

[editor]

I think one reason for that is the fact that Wal-Mart has the "huge warehouse with an enormous parking lot" thing that it can't seem to wake from. I think there's enough vacant land not too far behind the GRB to accomodate them. And it would be a great service for people in the East End who don't have a lot of shopping opportunities right now.

[MidtownCoog]

I think there's enough vacant land not too far behind the GRB to accomodate them.

Agree. I think they could print money in this location.

I am definetly not trying to be negative about downtown retail. Whatever gets downtown retail flying again will have to high on the "unique and neat" factor.

I have grown to despise the tunnels. I avoid them like the plague and walk street level 95% of time.

[VicMan]

Agree. I think they could print money in this location.

I am definetly not trying to be negative about downtown retail. Whatever gets downtown retail flying again will have to high on the "unique and neat" factor.

I have grown to despise the tunnels. I avoid them like the plague and walk street level 95% of time.

Coog, what types of retailers do you think will help build Downtown (coffee shops? restaurants? booksellers? antique shops?)

[scarface]

i think the whole tunnel thing is kind of a played out idea. i was just in the tunnel a few weeks ago when i took the day off. There were some fine young gals in there. That was the only thing i liked, but other than that, it was still the same boring walk that i last remembered.

I think i'd like the tunnels better if there was some sort of people mover installed underground, but that's wishful thinking. Then the question would be as to where it would go. And if there were more attractions put in the tunnels, it would promote people to come downtown and the stores would stay open, even on weekends.

Right now, seeing how drab downtown is on street level (Even though it has improved in the last 6 or 7 years), i think i'm more towards the idea of retail at street level. Because many visitors come to our city and think we have a lifeless downtown because there's not as many people crowding the streets as they think there should be. But the people are there, underground in the tunnels. However, the tunnels are good to keep people out of the sweltering, sweaty summer days but i still would like to see more of it at street level if anything.

[VicMan]

That's why I think any tunnel retailers who can do this should also open up at street level.

[nmainguy]

Dairy Queen has no locations inside the 610 Loop.

There are two inside the loop.

One on Cavalcade and one on W. 18th

[VicMan]

There are two inside the loop.

One on Cavalcade and one on W. 18th

I used the website store locator... or maybe I just misread the map.

[Houstonian in Iraq]

There are two inside the loop.

One on Cavalcade and one on W. 18th

Wasn't the one on Calvacade turned into a Dairy Land or a Dairy King or some other cheesy sounding place that no longer is Dairy Queen. I think they still kept the red and white colors though. I can't check it out from here, passed by it about a month or so ago.

Anyways, as for the tunnels vs. street retail, I think there is plenty room for both. As stated before there also needs to be good quality stores that will lure people out of the area they're living in to shop downtown, a couple name brand trusted chain stores along with one of a kind stores.

Tunnel and street retail will attract residential which would be a major plus to downtown development.

[MidtownCoog]

Coog, what types of retailers do you think will help build Downtown (coffee shops? restaurants? booksellers? antique shops?)

I am still not sure. Whatever it is, I think Main Street Square and the surronding areas up and down Main are our best hope location wise to create a critical mass.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Wasn't the one on Calvacade turned into a Dairy Land or a Dairy King or some other cheesy sounding place that no longer is Dairy Queen.

Yes. It reminds me of the McDowell's/McDonald's deal that John Amos's character in Coming To America pulled off.

[Subdude]

Tunnel and street retail will attract residential which would be a major plus to downtown development.

I can see street retail helping to attract residential, but less so retail in the tunnels, since they are closed after business hours.

[Houstonian in Iraq]

I can see street retail helping to attract residential, but less so retail in the tunnels, since they are closed after business hours.

It would still give residents more options having both.

Yeah right now they are closed after business hours, if everything goes well tunnels or sections of them might extend their hours.

[MidtownCoog]

Maybe so, but as they are configured today, the tunnels are only for the downtown set.