Ion District In Midtown

[iah77]

37 minutes ago, wilcal said:

The reason for doing it with the community is so the city isn't involved with enforcement. Breach of contract would be handled by a court. If the CBA is with the city, the city does what the mayor wants, so he/she can choose not to enforce it. CBAs are traditionally made bypassing the city because of this.

$6.6 million for parking garage vegetation?

$6.4 million for two "public plazas" that will be on private property?

IDK about all that. The TIRZ could do so much more with that money.

I think the bolded statement is completely disingenuous, and really doesn't even make sense. The Fiesta was by far the most convenient grocery store for a large portion of the Third Ward (with some portions having car ownership rates in the 60%s), so it isn't just about "potential benefits". 

Some of the leaders aren't even directly affected by this, but are trying to help support voices that are typically squashed. As has been talked about earlier in the thread, Rice's interaction with the black community in Houston isn't exactly a positive history. Several of the members are Rice students that want to see more equity from their university. So yes, it is expected that there hasn't been a continuous push by some of the members in this one specific area. Sears had also been sitting on a what, 50 year lease? And that is something that did help serve needs in the community whereas the Ion might not. 

And in terms of Third Ward, yes, the highways have re-edged the borders of neighborhoods, but you have to also see that there are areas of strong black culture and residents, like along Almeda, still exist in those parts that are outside the "modern" boundaries. 

The Kwik Kopy building is up for sale at like 7-10X its appraised value. There will be ramifications felt by local residents because Rice decided to make such a significant change.

CBAs are definitely a new thing for Houston, but to claim that a grassroots org is just demanding handouts when they see their neighborhood continuing to change, and not to benefit long-term residents is not a great take imho.

 

 

HEB opened much closer and is actually cheaper than Fiesta and actually had a large fresh produce section so that is not true, it wasn't even on many bus routes from actual 3rd ward like the new HEB is. I think it's crazy is the 21st century to try keep areas as ethnic enclaves etc. Shouldn't every area mirror the demographics of the city overall?

[wilcal]

5 minutes ago, iah77 said:

HEB opened much closer and is actually cheaper than Fiesta and actually had a large fresh produce section so that is not true, it wasn't even on many bus routes from actual 3rd ward like the new HEB is. I think it's crazy is the 21st century to try keep areas as ethnic enclaves etc. Shouldn't every area mirror the demographics of the city overall?

Good news, I actually did my summer GIS class project on this very topic. 

On the images below, the blue census tracts are ones designated as a low-income census tract. The orange areas are designated as food deserts not because of low-income, but because of low transportation access. 

This is the before: 

And this is the after (current day):

The higher-end areas of Riverside Terrace did gain significantly more access because of the HEB, but it did not much for the poorer areas. Transit access to the new HEB is lower than the old Fiesta, although I do not have any visualizations to show that. Although, the HEB is a more pleasant walk because of the Columbia Tap trail that connects to the bayou. 

As I mentioned before, several of the northern census tracts don't have a car, so they did not see any improvement from the new HEB being added. 

 

[Luminare]

1 hour ago, wilcal said:

The reason for doing it with the community is so the city isn't involved with enforcement. Breach of contract would be handled by a court. If the CBA is with the city, the city does what the mayor wants, so he/she can choose not to enforce it. CBAs are traditionally made bypassing the city because of this.

$6.6 million for parking garage vegetation?

$6.4 million for two "public plazas" that will be on private property?

IDK about all that. The TIRZ could do so much more with that money.

I think the bolded statement is completely disingenuous, and really doesn't even make sense. The Fiesta was by far the most convenient grocery store for a large portion of the Third Ward (with some portions having car ownership rates in the 60%s), so it isn't just about "potential benefits". 

Some of the leaders aren't even directly affected by this, but are trying to help support voices that are typically squashed. As has been talked about earlier in the thread, Rice's interaction with the black community in Houston isn't exactly a positive history. Several of the members are Rice students that want to see more equity from their university. So yes, it is expected that there hasn't been a continuous push by some of the members in this one specific area. Sears had also been sitting on a what, 50 year lease? And that is something that did help serve needs in the community whereas the Ion might not. 

And in terms of Third Ward, yes, the highways have re-edged the borders of neighborhoods, but you have to also see that there are areas of strong black culture and residents, like along Almeda, still exist in those parts that are outside the "modern" boundaries. 

The Kwik Kopy building is up for sale at like 7-10X its appraised value. There will be ramifications felt by local residents because Rice decided to make such a significant change.

CBAs are definitely a new thing for Houston, but to claim that a grassroots org is just demanding handouts when they see their neighborhood continuing to change, and not to benefit long-term residents is not a great take imho.

 

 

You do know that not everything has to be viewed through the lens of Social Justice, right?

If these ideas you propose are so self-evident and so obvious, why does it always come off as a demand with the penalty of not doing so being social retribution and social excommunication? Why does it always come off as a call for privilege when it is disguised as a right?

$6.6 million for vegetation....yeah in the manner of which they are implementing vegetation on the garage, its going to be expensive. This isn't exactly planting flowers in a small pot on a back porch. Landscaping is very expensive depending on what you plant, and how much density you plant, and in this case they are putting vegetation in suspended planters which requires its own structural support. The real question should be, what is your hypothetical dollar amount for vegetation where you think this is a too much and that money can go elsewhere. Not to mention isn't the talk that we should be making buildings and environments more green. Why does that all the sudden go out the window when so-called historically impoverished communities are involved. Do blacks and poor people not deserve to see green around them, oh thats right they are black and poor, so they must be hungry and can't find work, so we should be spending money on that, right? Because we should assume this is the default, right?

$6.4 million for two "public plazas". Again isn't the argument always that there should be more open space, and spaces for people to congregate and create a sense of community, and especially in Houston where there is so little. I many cities depending on the zoning regulation a developer will have to designate space for a public plaza. Here there is no such requirement, and so actually we should see this as an improvement that companies don't need to be forced to create public space, and instead they are seeing a market benefit to do so on their own accord. Really quite astonishing in my opinion.

This is always my issue with any argument is from the standpoint of Social Justice is that its never enough. Nobody can be Woke enough or promote Social Justice enough, and Rice University leans pretty hard into these ideas to a fault in my opinion, and again it isn't enough. In my opinion this is why they should just ignore all that crap and do what can serve their interests best, and if it helps others along the way then this will be even more of a success, and they would be smart to do so.

As far as boundaries go. History isn't something you pick off a bookshelf and say, this is when we say history begins, or we think its this, but none of the other stuff happened. The highway exists, and its ramifications exist, and we have to move on. Learn lessons on what happened and try to do better in the future. These ideas of these so called historically black communities that you have in your head aren't there anymore and have moved elsewhere. Let that go. Montrose when I was living in it was changing as well. The gay community is leaving that neighborhood, but thats also a consequence of them being generally more accepted in mainstream society which is a great thing, and now they don't have to be in the same place. Most of these historically black communities where a direct response to segregation, and segregation isn't in law anymore, so why should they all live in the same place? History changes, so do cities.

[wilcal]

The spending is not even about social justice. Yes, parking garages should be greener, but what do you think is more effective? Spending 6.6 million on planting more trees in the area or sticking them to the side of a parking garage?

Remember this is tax revenue we are talking about! Three TIRZ is going to be subsidizing Rice's green choices instead of Rice paying for it themselves. Is any property tax even being paid on these lots? $6.4 million could have made an actual park instead of paying for Rice to develop their own private plazas.

Gentrification and displacement are two different things. If people choose to leave then that is mostly fine. If they are forced to leave their communities then I don't think that is right. 

Significant portions of the Third Ward were redlined, people weren't able to buy property, and there are low home ownership rates as a result. Because there are a decent number of renters, they can be displaced much easier. 

I'm not saying you're wrong as I think it is a valid POV, and honestly I felt the same way about the CBA before I dug into the reasoning and looked at how these communities have basically had the rug pulled out, and what I'm hearing from you and IAH77 is that communities should be happy to become more multi-racial because segregation is over, and again that doesn't sit right with me.

 

 

[Luminare]

18 minutes ago, wilcal said:

what I'm hearing from you and IAH77 is that communities should be happy to become more multi-racial because segregation is over, and again that doesn't sit right with me.

 

 

ah....okay. I see. Very illuminating response. At least your are brave enough to say what most progressives and those who fight for social justice actually want, but are too insecure to actually state it. At the very least to your credit, you are honest.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Luminare

[BeerNut]

I attended a few CBA coalition meetings...  They talk about potential harm The Ion will bring but praised all the "work" the MRA and Coleman have done for Third Ward.  Everyone was dismayed when Fiesta left but the store manager was alone at city hall begging the for help with high shrink and continuous police calls.  I thought the coalition would work with Rice on technology focused solutions but they want them to fix everything.

[samagon]

3 hours ago, wilcal said:

I think the bolded statement is completely disingenuous, and really doesn't even make sense. The Fiesta was by far the most convenient grocery store for a large portion of the Third Ward (with some portions having car ownership rates in the 60%s), so it isn't just about "potential benefits". 

I say that because I see other things happening in the 3rd ward that are far more detrimental to the community, yet, I see very few stories about it, and fewer still from the community leaders.

it's a topic for another thread (and I believe it is a topic of its own thread), but midtown has been buying so much property in 3rd ward, and then just bulldozes the home and leaves the land vacant. all under the premise that some day they are going to build affordable housing. they have pockmarked the 3rd ward and done more damage to the community than the loss of Fiesta ever could. want to see what land is owned by midtown TIRZ?

in fact, a google search for news related to Houston Coalition for Equitable Development Without Displacement only brings back news related to ION, nothing else.

I will say that regarding the ION, I do hope that they engage with the community to create tech jobs for people in the local community, specifically youths, but the other stuff the HCEDD wants is pretty ridiculous when you look at this innovation district, and other players that have been taking action for more than a decade that have resulted in doing more harm to the community, well, yeah. Midtown TIRZ needs to be in their crosshairs, not Rice.

[BeerNut]

2 hours ago, wilcal said:

Good news, I actually did my summer GIS class project on this very topic. 

On the images below, the blue census tracts are ones designated as a low-income census tract. The orange areas are designated as food deserts not because of low-income, but because of low transportation access. 

This is the before: 

And this is the after (current day):

The higher-end areas of Riverside Terrace did gain significantly more access because of the HEB, but it did not much for the poorer areas. Transit access to the new HEB is lower than the old Fiesta, although I do not have any visualizations to show that. Although, the HEB is a more pleasant walk because of the Columbia Tap trail that connects to the bayou. 

As I mentioned before, several of the northern census tracts don't have a car, so they did not see any improvement from the new HEB being added. 

 

Until recently, no large format grocery stores would locate in this area due to proximity to schools an churches limiting alcohol sales. 

[samagon]

25 minutes ago, BeerNut said:

Until recently, no large format grocery stores would locate in this area due to proximity to schools an churches limiting alcohol sales. 

I'm not sure this is a thing. google maps shows quite a few liquor stores scattered across 3rd ward, also there are a number of convenience stores, all of which will have beer/wine for sale.

[wilcal]

36 minutes ago, samagon said:

I'm not sure this is a thing. google maps shows quite a few liquor stores scattered across 3rd ward, also there are a number of convenience stores, all of which will have beer/wine for sale.

Another item I unfortunately didn't have time to get to in on my project that was on my list!

Would be relatively easy to figure out which parcels you could sell alcohol on, but I couldn't easily get a list of churches/schools/etc that trigger the alcohol restrictions.

FWIW, Houston actually has a more stringent requirement than the state requires and they have loosened it in some areas. 

Also, CoH made some adjustments to development rules, related to flooding, to get the HEB project built. The federal funds were going to expire, so I'm glad they used them, but it did result in HEB closing their store on OST. Fortunately, I think the Aldi was already in development. 

The other thing I wish I could see research on is how successful online grocery order and delivery has been in food desert areas. Both Amazon and HEB take SNAP for curbside/delivery.

Would be interesting to look at the pros/cons of subsidizing grocery store construction when you might just subsidize the delivery fee. Hurts older/less tech savvy people, but nothing ever is 100% good.

 

[Amlaham]

I think we also need to take note that these dramatic increases in property value isn't just in 3rd ward. Take a look at Garden Oaks and Oak Forrest. Small 1,200 Sq ft homes are being torn down and mansions are replacing them. Homes that would sell in those areas for 120K 10 years ago are now selling for 600K. The Heights was probably one of the biggest food desserts in Houston, filled with nothing but body shops and abandoned lots. We all know how drastic the entire heights has changed over the last decade. Homes that used to sell there for 200K for half an acre now sell at millions. This is inevitable in Houston; one of the fastest growing cities in the US. Nowhere is safe, especially not a neighborhood thats within the vicinity of Downtown/ Midtown/ Museum District/ Medical Center/ and even hobby airport. This has never been about targeting a certain race (Black/Hispanic/ etc). This is strictly supply/ demand and business. None of us are guaranteed the neighborhood we currently live in, if you want something "affordable"......well we literally live in Texas, there are endless affordable living options. Let's be a little grateful that we don't live in NYC, Chicago, Seattle. I mean even Atlanta and Fort Lauderdale are pricier than here. Property value will ALWAYS increase in a big and growing city, no one should be exempt from it just because of the color of their skin. 

[Ross]

On 10/14/2021 at 8:10 AM, samagon said:

 

and the main crux, @tigereye hit above, these so called community leaders don't care about the area until there is a potential benefit for them personally

Fixed that last sentence. That's based on my experience when we lived in Midtown East of Main from 1998 to 2004.

On 10/14/2021 at 12:18 PM, wilcal said:

The spending is not even about social justice. Yes, parking garages should be greener, but what do you think is more effective? Spending 6.6 million on planting more trees in the area or sticking them to the side of a parking garage?

Remember this is tax revenue we are talking about! Three TIRZ is going to be subsidizing Rice's green choices instead of Rice paying for it themselves. Is any property tax even being paid on these lots? $6.4 million could have made an actual park instead of paying for Rice to develop their own private plazas.

Gentrification and displacement are two different things. If people choose to leave then that is mostly fine. If they are forced to leave their communities then I don't think that is right. 

Significant portions of the Third Ward were redlined, people weren't able to buy property, and there are low home ownership rates as a result. Because there are a decent number of renters, they can be displaced much easier. 

I'm not saying you're wrong as I think it is a valid POV, and honestly I felt the same way about the CBA before I dug into the reasoning and looked at how these communities have basically had the rug pulled out, and what I'm hearing from you and IAH77 is that communities should be happy to become more multi-racial because segregation is over, and again that doesn't sit right with me.

 

 

If you think the so called "community leaders" are trying to make things better for the community overall, you are going to be sad once everything plays out. This is strictly about personal power for those who are "leading" the effort.

The significant portions of the Third Ward that were redlined, were redlined to eliminate White property owners and sell the properties multiple times to Blacks. The area from say, TSU North was different, as it never had a majority White population.

On 10/14/2021 at 1:24 PM, BeerNut said:

I attended a few CBA coalition meetings...  They talk about potential harm The Ion will bring but praised all the "work" the MRA and Coleman have done for Third Ward.  Everyone was dismayed when Fiesta left but the store manager was alone at city hall begging the for help with high shrink and continuous police calls.  I thought the coalition would work with Rice on technology focused solutions but they want them to fix everything.

No, the coalition just wants personal power and money. They couldn't give a rat's backside about the community.

On 10/14/2021 at 1:32 PM, samagon said:

I say that because I see other things happening in the 3rd ward that are far more detrimental to the community, yet, I see very few stories about it, and fewer still from the community leaders.

it's a topic for another thread (and I believe it is a topic of its own thread), but midtown has been buying so much property in 3rd ward, and then just bulldozes the home and leaves the land vacant. all under the premise that some day they are going to build affordable housing. they have pockmarked the 3rd ward and done more damage to the community than the loss of Fiesta ever could. want to see what land is owned by midtown TIRZ?

in fact, a google search for news related to Houston Coalition for Equitable Development Without Displacement only brings back news related to ION, nothing else.

I will say that regarding the ION, I do hope that they engage with the community to create tech jobs for people in the local community, specifically youths, but the other stuff the HCEDD wants is pretty ridiculous when you look at this innovation district, and other players that have been taking action for more than a decade that have resulted in doing more harm to the community, well, yeah. Midtown TIRZ needs to be in their crosshairs, not Rice.

Blame Garnet Coleman for the land banking. We've discussed that before. He's a power hungry guy, and the land banking helps him.

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

everybody has their hands out. wanting a piece of the pie. They want the pieces they didn't earn, nor did they help to bring that pie to bear.
Pardon my French, but, f*ck those types, they're all grifters.  

[hindesky]

[dbigtex56]

On 10/14/2021 at 10:35 AM, wilcal said:

Transit access to the new HEB is lower than the old Fiesta, although I do not have any visualizations to show that.

I agree.
For me, this is not some theoretical argument. I've taken METRO to the South Fwy H-E-B twice, and although it's not that far as the crow flies, it's one of those "you can't get there from here" spots that are one of Houston's distinguishing traits. 
The store is at the corner of a one-way street (N MacGregor Way) and a South Fwy service road. Actually, one can get there; it's getting out again that's tricky. 
Imagine being laden with groceries and having to cross a busy street, followed by a long walk on a bridge over either a freeway or a bayou, followed by crossing another busy street. For a while, METRO was offering a shuttle from the Eastwood Transit Center, but it didn't keep any regular schedule. 
Perhaps @iah77 has some insights that I've missed. If so, I'd enjoy hearing about their personal experiences.

[wilcal]

On 10/18/2021 at 2:33 AM, Tumbleweed_Tx said:

everybody has their hands out. wanting a piece of the pie. They want the pieces they didn't earn, nor did they help to bring that pie to bear.
Pardon my French, but, f*ck those types, they're all grifters.  

Hey, just because Rice is asking for tens of millions in tax money for beautification while not paying property taxes themselves doesn't make them grifters. 

[HNathoo]

On 10/19/2021 at 10:19 AM, wilcal said:

Hey, just because Rice is asking for tens of millions in tax money for beautification while not paying property taxes themselves doesn't make them grifters. 

What makes you think they aren't paying property taxes? This isn't a part of the university - this is an asset run by the endowment. 

[phillip_white]

4 hours ago, HNathoo said:

What makes you think they aren't paying property taxes? This isn't a part of the university - this is an asset run by the endowment. 

If Rice pays taxes on their endowment gains they need close their business school. That's the whole point of being a non-profit entity. 

[wilcal]

13 hours ago, HNathoo said:

What makes you think they aren't paying property taxes? This isn't a part of the university - this is an asset run by the endowment. 

I guess I assumed improperly that non-profit owned land, even if owned by an endowment, would not be paying property taxes like the university-specific sites. 

8 hours ago, phillip_white said:

If Rice pays taxes on their endowment gains they need close their business school. That's the whole point of being a non-profit entity. 

Well, there's a difference between paying taxes on the profits and paying property taxes, right? Evidently they may be paying property taxes. 

[clutchcity94]

9 minutes ago, wilcal said:

I guess I assumed improperly that non-profit owned land, even if owned by an endowment, would not be paying property taxes like the university-specific sites. 

Well, there's a difference between paying taxes on the profits and paying property taxes, right? Evidently they may be paying property taxes. 

Looks like Rice is actually delinquent on their taxes at 4201 Main St (the Ion).

[Amlaham]

I mean......... the taxes were collected in this area by Midtown Tirz for almost the last 3 decades (since 1994). Why is no one having an issue with them but have an issue with Rice? Rice did WAY more upgrades to the area in the last year than Midtown Tirz has done in the last 30 years. Not to mention, Rice did all the upgrades before they even requested funding. This area was never really touched by Midtown Tirz except the street signs to include "Midtown." The Tirz mainly focused on the northern portion of midtown. I feel like theres a constant switch of narratives to paint Rice as the bad guy 😂, either its not paying taxes, not considering 3rd ward residents, creating a food desert. Would you guys prefer the abandoned sears and run down fiesta with all the homeless scattered around?

[clutchcity94]

24 minutes ago, Amlaham said:

I mean......... the taxes were collected in this area by Midtown Tirz for almost the last 3 decades (since 1994). Why is no one having an issue with them but have an issue with Rice? Rice did WAY more upgrades to the area in the last year than Midtown Tirz has done in the last 30 years. Not to mention, Rice did all the upgrades before they even requested funding. This area was never really touched by Midtown Tirz except the street signs to include "Midtown." The Tirz mainly focused on the northern portion of midtown. I feel like theres a constant switch of narratives to paint Rice as the bad guy 😂, either its not paying taxes, not considering 3rd ward residents, creating a food desert. Would you guys prefer the abandoned sears and run down fiesta with all the homeless scattered around?

To be fair, there are still a lot of homeless scattered around. I have no idea how Stuff’d Wings plans on running a successful business out of the old Shipley Donuts when there’s a homeless encampment right outside their front door along the 59 off-ramp.

Edited October 21, 2021 by clutchcity94

[Houston19514]

2 hours ago, clutchcity94 said:

Looks like Rice is actually delinquent on their taxes at 4201 Main St (the Ion).

 

That's weird.  I just pulled that same record and those "Prior year" amounts are not on there.  But it does confirm that they pay property taxes.

[X.R.]

3 hours ago, clutchcity94 said:

To be fair, there are still a lot of homeless scattered around. I have no idea how Stuff’d Wings plans on running a successful business out of the old Shipley Donuts when there’s a homeless encampment right outside their front door along the 59 off-ramp.

Its not thaaaaat bad now, and its much better than it was. Shipley's was doing good business, that thing was busy most of the time when you'd go in, and the homeless was much worse then. Its especially not that bad compared to other cities.

Also, lulz at them being behind on taxes, thats just a bit funny. I would like the fences to come down around Greentown labs and the parking lot next door. It feels a little standoff-ish with the neighborhood. Unless they are saying things aren't done yet, then I can understand. Otherwise, take the fences down! 

[iah77]

9 minutes ago, X.R. said:

Its not thaaaaat bad now, and its much better than it was. Shipley's was doing good business, that thing was busy most of the time when you'd go in, and the homeless was much worse then. Its especially not that bad compared to other cities.

Also, lulz at them being behind on taxes, thats just a bit funny. I would like the fences to come down around Greentown labs and the parking lot next door. It feels a little standoff-ish with the neighborhood. Unless they are saying things aren't done yet, then I can understand. Otherwise, take the fences down! 

Every house around that block has fences or bars on their windows, why in the world does a fence on someones land offend people?

[X.R.]

8 minutes ago, iah77 said:

Every house around that block has fences or bars on their windows, why in the world does a fence on someones land offend people?

Wellllllll, it doesn't offend me. I just think its an odd look when you have Rice creating these beautiful spaces by the Ion, and later on taxpayer money will be going to beautification and public plazas/space that are right next to...large fences around parking lots that clearly are there to keep the security of the vehicles inside of it. It wouldn't instill a ton of confidence in anyone to actual utilize those spaces. 

Plus, they have security people around so I honestly don't understand the need. Edit: A solution: If you're gonna spend all that money to do make everything pretty, and you're in charge of making pretty public spaces, maybe just build a permanent wall with a gate? 

Edited October 21, 2021 by X.R.

[Amlaham]

New development in the planning stages within this district!!! Great addition to the area!

https://communityimpact.com/houston/bellaire-meyerland-west-university/development/2021/10/25/theatre-under-the-stars-announces-eventual-opening-of-new-education-arts-center-at-midtown-ion-district/

[Brooklyn173]

Som pix from last week's AIA tour

 

[Brooklyn173]

Community Benefits Agreement on hold ...

Houston City Council delays vote on Ion investments amid opposition

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/houston/article/Houston-council-delays-vote-on-Ion-investments-16588655.php

 

 

[CREguy13]

58 minutes ago, Brooklyn173 said:

Community Benefits Agreement on hold ...

Houston City Council delays vote on Ion investments amid opposition

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/houston/article/Houston-council-delays-vote-on-Ion-investments-16588655.php

 

 

Hoping this is simply quick politics to have gone on record for delaying vote... I recently started working out of the Ion and it is bustling with energy from VCs, startups, several large energy companies, highly programmed networking and academic events, tons of visitors, etc.  Also Greentown Labs is near or at capacity and there is spillover from there to here already taking place...  the moment these investments are approved, Phase I is likely ready to be announced.  

Could be wrong, but don't think I am... hopefully this is only a short pause.  Serious momentum underway.