800 Bell St. (Former Exxon Building) Conversion to Residential

[cougarpad]

I don't understand the comment of the jury needing a sperate area. If you go down to Galveston the court complex they built has the jury selection court room in the same building with the trial courts. It all one big complex.  I just got called for duty last week. I went into the jury court room which was on the first floor right down hall from one to the trial ones.

Edited March 12, 2017 by cougarpad

[SyuzVR]

It is awesome! 

[Luminare]

Don't know if anything is really happening, but recently bit the bullet and got a Houston Business Journal sub. So far I'm not regretting it. Found this on the site:

 

Anyone have any other info on this?

[Ross]

It's on Tellepsen's site https://commercial.tellepsen.com/project/shorenstein-realty-800-bell-redevelopment/

 

From the City permit site:

Project No:	19070440
Date :	2019/07/09 00:00:00
USE :	(EPR) 25,592 SQ FT HI-RISE OFFICE REMODE
Owner/Occupant :	*800 BELL MARKETING FLOOR
Job Address :	800 BELL ST FL 35 77002
Valuation :	$ 994,000
Permit Type :	13
FCC Group :	Non-Residential Alteration
Buyer :	*TELLEPSEN
Address :	777 BENMAR 77060
Phone :	(281) 272-4929

 

35th floor remodel for a marketing office?

[H-Town Man]

37 minutes ago, Ross said:

It's on Tellepsen's site https://commercial.tellepsen.com/project/shorenstein-realty-800-bell-redevelopment/

 

From the City permit site:

Project No:	19070440
Date :	2019/07/09 00:00:00
USE :	(EPR) 25,592 SQ FT HI-RISE OFFICE REMODE
Owner/Occupant :	*800 BELL MARKETING FLOOR
Job Address :	800 BELL ST FL 35 77002
Valuation :	$ 994,000
Permit Type :	13
FCC Group :	Non-Residential Alteration
Buyer :	*TELLEPSEN
Address :	777 BENMAR 77060
Phone :	(281) 272-4929

 

35th floor remodel for a marketing office?

 

I guess it's to show tenants what a finished office will look like with views and all. They must smell some prey to be doing this now. I really hope they don't knock away one of the solar fins since I'm still hoping this thing falls through and the existing appearance of the building is saved.

 

[Luminare]

35 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I guess it's to show tenants what a finished office will look like with views and all. They must smell some prey to be doing this now. I really hope they don't knock away one of the solar fins since I'm still hoping this thing falls through and the existing appearance of the building is saved.

 

 

Very true. The building is a real modernist gem, but its even more so because its modernism with a contextual edge. Took some nice photos of the fins. I'll have to post them later.

[Purdueenginerd]

Just shy of 1 million dollars for the contract amount seems quite low for what has been shown in renderings, IMO. 

 

 

[Nate99]

21 minutes ago, Purdueenginerd said:

Just shy of 1 million dollars for the contract amount seems quite low for what has been shown in renderings, IMO. 

 

 

 

I am guessing that is just to refit a floor for marketing efforts. 

[marstrose]

TI Constructors doing the upgrades. 

[Sultan Sam]

Architect for the Humble Building was Welton Becket and Associates, who also designed the iconic Capitol Records tower in Los Angeles. It was completed in 1956. You might say there are a few similarities...

[cougarpad]

Are there any updates on this building being renovated? It is a historic building and it is sitting empty. I hope it does not become the next vacant Holiday Inn that is near by. I know there was some ideas of revamping the first floor by digging down and making a lower entrance as well as making a tunnel connection. The City of Houston was floating around the idea of taking it over for their city courts which I thought was a clever idea, but also would of meant major redoing of the ground floors for a jury entrance. Something needs to be done with this iconic building and new tenants being brought in.

Edited June 21, 2021 by cougarpad

[houstontexasjack]

Nothing about actual renovations, but the article below featured a cool concept to repurpose the building. I’m not sure what kind of top tier tenant would want to go to this kind of building for office space, when a brand new Class AA tower could be built in a similar timeframe. Repurposing this as a type of residential housing might be better in the longrun, although I suspect one would need a heckuva tax incentive program to kickstart that change in thinking.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/projects/2021/future-houston-designs

[tangledwoods]

here is the problem with 800 bell:  no one wants an old 1.3 million SF building with low FF heights and extremely old infrastructure.

The "sell" from Shorenstein is that you could deliver a "reno" of this building to market faster than a new tower but there are not a whole lot of anchor tenants looking for the kind of SF they would need to kick this into gear.  Even with top tier renovations this will never be able to compete with new construction Hines or Skanska buildings.... 

[Montrose1100]

16 minutes ago, tangledwoods said:

here is the problem with 800 bell:  no one wants an old 1.3 million SF building with low FF heights and extremely old infrastructure.

The "sell" from Shorenstein is that you could deliver a "reno" of this building to market faster than a new tower but there are not a whole lot of anchor tenants looking for the kind of SF they would need to kick this into gear.  Even with top tier renovations this will never be able to compete with new construction Hines or Skanska buildings.... 

I'd be really happy if they converted to apartments/condos and maybe mixed-use with a Hotel. The top of the building, ex-petroleum club is dying to be used as a fabulous resort pool. Could definitely open the roof. Think of the views and cocktails.

I doubt it would ever come true. I think the best hope for this building was the city buying it. 

[MarathonMan]

Shouldn’t the cost of holding a building vacant spur SOME kind of action by the owner?  Either sell or renovate/repurpose?  Seems crazy to pay taxes and maintenance costs on an asset that generates no income.  With the glut of vacant office space in the city, flipping to residential seems logical.

[tangledwoods]

Quote

flipping to residential seems logical.

the FF heights dont work, you would have to blow out portions of every other floor (which would make for some dope loft style units) but not sure what the market would be for that.  Also the core depth of this building makes it inefficient for residential or hotel conversion.

FWIW the comments above are largely from a bar conversation with a developer that doesnt like Shorenstein  so take all of that for what it is......

[houstontexasjack]

3 hours ago, tangledwoods said:

the FF heights dont work, you would have to blow out portions of every other floor (which would make for some dope loft style units) but not sure what the market would be for that.  Also the core depth of this building makes it inefficient for residential or hotel conversion.

It would take a creative design to repurpose 800 Bell for residential. I’ve fantasized about stripping some floors out to create something like sky pocket parks within the building for tenants. 
 

Of course, the economics make that impractical. 

 

[Subdude]

12 hours ago, tangledwoods said:

here is the problem with 800 bell:  no one wants an old 1.3 million SF building with low FF heights and extremely old infrastructure.

The "sell" from Shorenstein is that you could deliver a "reno" of this building to market faster than a new tower but there are not a whole lot of anchor tenants looking for the kind of SF they would need to kick this into gear.  Even with top tier renovations this will never be able to compete with new construction Hines or Skanska buildings.... 

What does FF stand for?

[thatguysly]

This building is an example of what is going to happen to a lot of buildings around town that are aging. The owners will have to find ways to adapt or there will just be old empty buildings from the 70s/80s that no one wants to rent.

[Montrose1100]

1 hour ago, thatguysly said:

This building is an example of what is going to happen to a lot of buildings around town that are aging. The owners will have to find ways to adapt or there will just be old empty buildings from the 70s/80s that no one wants to rent.

This has been going on for a while now, nothing new. 

15 hours ago, tangledwoods said:

the FF heights dont work, you would have to blow out portions of every other floor (which would make for some dope loft style units) but not sure what the market would be for that.  Also the core depth of this building makes it inefficient for residential or hotel conversion.

FWIW the comments above are largely from a bar conversation with a developer that doesnt like Shorenstein  so take all of that for what it is......

If the floor height doesn't work for residential, how would it work for office? I'm sure whatever renos Shorenstein had in mind, like totally changing the façade, could be put to better use $ on the interior. 

[arche_757]

4 hours ago, Subdude said:

What does FF stand for?

Floor-to-Floor

or sometimes finish floor when used on a drawing. 

I’d imagine the floor heights would be challenging, but nothing is impossible.  It is the location that stinks.

[Texasota]

Do we know what the ceiling heights are? Could changing the mechanical/HVAC systems effectively increase them?

[Montrose1100]

1 hour ago, arche_757 said:

Floor-to-Floor

or sometimes finish floor when used on a drawing. 

I’d imagine the floor heights would be challenging, but nothing is impossible.  It is the location that stinks.

It's a 4 block walk to Green Street, 1 block from the YMCA, 1 block from Main/2 blocks from both Skyhouse Retails, 3 blocks from the restaurants in the Hyatt Garage, 2 blocks from Chevron/Ex-Enron/Allen Center complex, 5 blocks from the law School. Granted, it is surrounded by a small sea of surface lots. But, that is a sea of potential.

Hamilton's location stinks, but people still rent there.

[thatguysly]

Couldn't it be converted to affordable housing? So what if the ceilings aren't as high, it could still be a way for a different demographic to afford living downtown.

[arche_757]

1 hour ago, Montrose1100 said:

It's a 4 block walk to Green Street, 1 block from the YMCA, 1 block from Main/2 blocks from both Skyhouse Retails, 3 blocks from the restaurants in the Hyatt Garage, 2 blocks from Chevron/Ex-Enron/Allen Center complex, 5 blocks from the law School. Granted, it is surrounded by a small sea of surface lots. But, that is a sea of potential.

Hamilton's location stinks, but people still rent there.

I can imagine whatever rents they charge at Hamilton it would be lower than what it would take to do a proper renovation to this former corporate tower.  So, there is that.

Would be a good buy for Rice/Ion etc. could turn it into a vertical emerging tech incubator of some sort.  Perhaps that’s a stretch, but I’d be happy to work on that for any would-be developer!

[Houston19514]

22 hours ago, tangledwoods said:

the FF heights dont work, you would have to blow out portions of every other floor (which would make for some dope loft style units) but not sure what the market would be for that.  Also the core depth of this building makes it inefficient for residential or hotel conversion.

 

The successful rehabs of the old Conrad Hilton and First National Bank Towers in downtown Dallas suggest otherwise.

[Subdude]

On 6/21/2021 at 4:28 PM, tangledwoods said:

here is the problem with 800 bell:  no one wants an old 1.3 million SF building with low FF heights and extremely old infrastructure.

The "sell" from Shorenstein is that you could deliver a "reno" of this building to market faster than a new tower but there are not a whole lot of anchor tenants looking for the kind of SF they would need to kick this into gear.  Even with top tier renovations this will never be able to compete with new construction Hines or Skanska buildings.... 

It's interesting. Low ceiling heights have also been given as an explanation for why the old Holiday/Days Inn could not be renovated, and the Sheraton-Lincoln before that. It must be that people in the 1960s were tiny, compared to the giants that walk among us today. 

[rechlin]

I don't understand why the floor-to-floor heights won't work for residential.  Usually commercial has the greatest heights, then residential in the middle, and then hotels at the bottom.  Unless it's a very old commercial building with low ceilings that only work well for hotels (like the Carter Building that became the JW Marriott), a residential conversion of a moderately-old commercial building usually has perfect ceiling heights.

I believe 800 Bell has approximately 13 foot FF spacing, which would be low by today's commercial standards (the towers built in recent years are all over 14 feet and some of the newest with in-floor HVAC are closer to 15 feet), but is plenty for residential.  Remember the office buildings that were used for recent hotel conversions have spacings under 9 feet.  The spacing of 800 Bell is actually enough for premium residential with "high" (by residential standards) ceilings, with 10 foot floor-to-ceiling heights if you want to match the ceiling height with the window height for floor-to-ceiling glass, and you could probably get a bit higher if you want more of a "loft" aesthetic.

[tigereye]

Anyone know what’s up with the Municipal Courts (Lubbock)? I thought there was a plan for the city to relocate municipal to 800 Bell and sell the land on Lubbock? 

[Avossos]

14 minutes ago, tigereye said:

Anyone know what’s up with the Municipal Courts (Lubbock)? I thought there was a plan for the city to relocate municipal to 800 Bell and sell the land on Lubbock? 

I think it is still up in the air right now...