800 Bell St. (Former Exxon Building) Conversion to Residential

[hindesky]

[Montrose1100]

On 4/8/2023 at 3:40 PM, Caribomoa said:

That’s what I was thinking too. The “For Lease” sign went up nearly instantly after the property was acquired. So it’s extremely unlikely that this is a change of mind after studying kind of thing.

6 Houston Center renderings/leasing info are still posted on their lot, so a sign doesn't mean anything.

[Brooklyn173]

I think the sign means that nothing will be done soon.

[editor]

18 hours ago, Brooklyn173 said:

I think the sign means that nothing will be done soon.

When the sign comes down — that's when we get excited.

[hindesky]

Houston Archaeological and Historical Commission voted on this at the Aug.3rd meeting.

[houstontexasjack]

On 10/13/2023 at 9:35 PM, hindesky said:

Houston Archaeological and Historical Commission voted on this at the Aug.3rd meeting.

Any tax reduction benefits of such a designation?

Also, it occurs to me the “for lease” sign might have tax benefits. From an ad valorem property tax standpoint, I reckon it would help to show the building can’t command the rents needed to justify an office valuation.

[rechlin]

On 10/13/2023 at 9:35 PM, hindesky said:

C. Public Hearing and Consideration of and Possible Action on a Protected Landmark Designation Application for Humble-Exxon Building and Garage

A request for a "protected landmark designation" on a parking garage.  Just when you thought you'd seen it all.

[Ross]

8 hours ago, rechlin said:

A request for a "protected landmark designation" on a parking garage.  Just when you thought you'd seen it all.

Without that garage, 800 Bell is useless. It doesn't have enough space for everyone in the building, but it is needed.

[HoustonIsHome]

37 minutes ago, Ross said:

Without that garage, 800 Bell is useless. It doesn't have enough space for everyone in the building, but it is needed.

Isn't it surrounded by 300 surface lots? I don't think it would be useless without THAT garage. Multiple others can easily be built around I.

[Ross]

3 hours ago, HoustonIsHome said:

Isn't it surrounded by 300 surface lots? I don't think it would be useless without THAT garage. Multiple others can easily be built around I.

That garage is built and is owned by Shorenstein, so it comes with 800 Bell. The other surface lots are owned by people who may not be interested in selling. And, the garage is tunnel connected to the building.

[Houston19514]

Pretty sure Shorenstein sold the building (and presumably the garage).

EDIT:  Confirmed. Shorenstein sold both 800 Bell and 1616 Milam in December 2022.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Houston19514

[Ross]

2 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

Pretty sure Shorenstein sold the building (and presumably the garage).

I stand corrected, and should have known that since I made a post about it in this thread in January. I'll write that off to getting older.

[HoustonIsHome]

On 10/23/2023 at 10:39 PM, Ross said:

That garage is built and is owned by Shorenstein, so it comes with 800 Bell. The other surface lots are owned by people who may not be interested in selling. And, the garage is tunnel connected to the building.

So? You said the Building is useless without that particular garage. The fact that the same owner may own the building and the garage and not own the surrounding lots still doesn't change the fact that there's empty lots all around it.

 

Sure it would be simpler to just keep the garage they already own, but the building isn't useless without it as they could always purchase one or three lots and build more garages. It wouldn't be the end of the world without that particular garage. 

And for a residential building on the far southern end of downtown, tunnel access isn't really a game changer. 

[strickn]

@HoustonIsHomeYou had me at Aldi on the previous page of this thread.  Their cost is all in the refrigerated distribution center capacity, which they have in Rosenberg already, so the marginal cost of trying a lease in 800 Bell would be far less than a big box grocer would face

If I'm a manager there I'm reading your proposal and thinking with a favorable lease agreement I could be looking at a promotion for inventing us an urban hermit crab business case we didn't know we had

[strickn]

But I'd also be sliding at a big discount into the shell Whole Foods has vacated prematurely out at the great Brazos-Bagby at Elgin-Westheimer street grid collision

[Ross]

4 hours ago, HoustonIsHome said:

So? You said the Building is useless without that particular garage. The fact that the same owner may own the building and the garage and not own the surrounding lots still doesn't change the fact that there's empty lots all around it.

 

Sure it would be simpler to just keep the garage they already own, but the building isn't useless without it as they could always purchase one or three lots and build more garages. It wouldn't be the end of the world without that particular garage. 

And for a residential building on the far southern end of downtown, tunnel access isn't really a game changer. 

It's tunnel access to the garage, not the rest of the tunnel system. Being able to get to the garage without crossing the street is a good thing.

And you admit that parking is a necessity for a residential building that size, but you don't like the existing garage. You are also assuming the other lots are for sale.

[HoustonIsHome]

6 hours ago, Ross said:

It's tunnel access to the garage, not the rest of the tunnel system. Being able to get to the garage without crossing the street is a good thing.

And you admit that parking is a necessity for a residential building that size, but you don't like the existing garage. You are also assuming the other lots are for sale.

I made no case, in favor or against, parking. I simply agreed that it would be easier to keep the garage they already own than to build another. 

The assertion that the building is useless without that particular garage is just silly. Stop dancing around the subject. There's a zillion empty lots all around that building. If memory serves me right there's a whole empty lot between the building and the garage. A closer garage with a skybridge would probably be more convenient, but no, the building can only work with that particular garage only. 

You are assuming that the surrounding lots are not for sale just as I am assuming it is. Who knows? But what I do know is the assumption that 800 Bell only chance of making it is holding on to garage is silly. It may be better off keeping it but saying the building is worthless without it is poor wording.

 

[HoustonIsHome]

11 hours ago, strickn said:

@HoustonIsHomeYou had me at Aldi on the previous page of this thread.  Their cost is all in the refrigerated distribution center capacity, which they have in Rosenberg already, so the marginal cost of trying a lease in 800 Bell would be far less than a big box grocer would face

If I'm a manager there I'm reading your proposal and thinking with a favorable lease agreement I could be looking at a promotion for inventing us an urban hermit crab business case we didn't know we had

Yeah, and Aldi is a meat and potatoes store. It's not fluffy Duffy like trader Joe's either. You can do your weekly shopping at Aldi with a lot of stuff being cheaper than Walmart. 

Aldi's scented candles for example are at Walmart prices, but they are as strong as the ones you would buy for 4times the price at a department store.

I like that there stores are smaller. You can get everything you need without spending 2 days in the store. 

I'm not hating on trader Joe's, but it would be a repeat of Whole Foods. I can see Aldi working out a favorable lease and setting up shop very quickly. I easily see them feeling in the niche that Rouses fills in New Orleans. And Rouses is overpriced.

[BEES?!]

Aldi’s has the funniest knockoff cereals I’ve ever seen, and so for that reason they’re winners to me.

[Texasota]

Why would anyone want Aldi when you can have Lidl?

[strickn]

Uh because they decided not to compete head to head in most US states yet while they both get established, so the people who can have both are mostly the people who buy their groceries online.

 

aldi tends to build 16,000-18,000 square foot locations so a lot of intown hermit crab shell spaces could suit them

[Texasota]

I know they're not in town yet, but they operate stores of the same size as Aldi (and in my opinion are better). Whenever they *do* start opening stores further west Houston is a logical first choice because of the port. 

[HoustonIsHome]

On 10/31/2023 at 9:49 AM, Texasota said:

Why would anyone want Aldi when you can have Lidl?

I dunno who Lidl is

[hindesky]

13 minutes ago, HoustonIsHome said:

I dunno who Lidl is

 

[HoustonIsHome]

These Nutz!!! ..

Thanks for the vid. 

So basically they are the same concept? I guess a Lidl would work too then. 

It's funny she called that aisle the Treasure Aisle. I call it the Sometimey Aisle. 

Strickn, I think Aldi should hermit crab itself into every neighborhood within the beltway. Wonder if they could squeeze one into 800 Bell.

Does Aldi have security? I usually only see one or two workers in the entire store. Gives it a more neighborhood store feel. 

[staresatmaps]

Lidl is way better if you have been to both. It's not on the same level. Lidls have a really nice fresh bakery, where Aldis do not have one at all.

Edited November 8, 2023 by staresatmaps

[quietstorm]

Here’s a view from Trebly park. The design fits in nicely with the other residential in the area. While 800 Bell was built in the 60’s it reminds me of some of the high-rise residential buildings in Vancouver. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by quietstorm

[strickn]

On 11/8/2023 at 1:59 PM, staresatmaps said:

Lidl is way better if you have been to both. It's not on the same level. Lidls have a really nice fresh bakery, where Aldis do not have one at all.

Germans wouldn't dare to compete with Arandas Bakery, Panaderia La Michoacana, and all the kolaches, anyway.

Nothing's lidl in Texas.

I wonder if it was like when the big Spanish banks' leadership decided to hunt for growth stateside, and Banco Bilbao went for the Sunbelt while rival Santander went for the upmarket I-95 corridor.  Aldi and Lidl leaders seem to have both arrived at analogous conclusions in a similar movement.  And @HoustonIsHomeno I've never seen security guards at Aldis.  

Edited January 17 by strickn

[strickn]

Wonder if Mayor Whitmire will revive Mayor Parker's idea of leasing 800 Bell for city use.  In 2014 she was proposing a police and justice center for it.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/In-surprise-move-Parker-now-looks-to-lease-6047196.php#/0

[ChannelTwoNews]

Why more Houston offices aren't being converted to housing (houstonchronicle.com)

"Developers seeking historic tax credits must be prepared to jump through several hoops, which takes time. For example, CMI Development plans to transform the 1.2 million-square-foot former Exxon skyscraper at 800 Bell in downtown Houston into a mixed-use project with hundreds of apartments. Although CMI has been working for more than a year to get the tower, completed in 1963, designated as historic, the time-consuming process is a necessary step to defraying the costs, which include of asbestos remediation. 

And any developer buying an empty tower for a conversion must be able to cover costs including insurance and taxes while the building isn’t generating revenue."