GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[Houston19514]

No clue about the underground?  But 150 x 250 = 37,500  Multiply that times 5 = 187,000   Not 224,500.

 

IF the roof is counted for the building total sq ft then its only applicable to the use of the space as a parking garage.  Unless a rooftop deck becomes the suddenly fashionable thing for a department store?

 

Also, I'm not sure there are 5 floors.  I actually counted 4 - and added a 5th as it seemed logical to have an "attic" or some mechanical mezzanine above the 4th.

 

Yeah, I did the math.  ;-)  You had come up with 5 levels at 37,500 square feet per level.  I sugggested there might be a another  (below grade) level, making six levels.  6 x 37,500 = 224,500.

 

However it was arranged, however many levels it had... we have two sources saying it was 225,000 square feet or more.  Oddly, despite significant searching, I have been unable to find any reference to how many levels the store had.  I've found many references to the five levels they had in their prior Gulf Building location, but nothing for the 1111 Main location.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Houston19514

[arche_757]

^Right.  I've looked and looked, and the one source I found with the 228,000 number was the Houston Chronicle.  In all likelihood there is some basement and some attic/mezzanine storage that boosts the size up.

 

Renovated with some restaurant space and maybe a select retailer or two on the ground floor it would be perfect for a Neimans or Nordstroms?

 

Maybe Specs ought to move?!  That'd bring people downtown for sure!

[Houston19514]

I finally found a reference to the floor count: 

 

The splashiest entrance was yet to come, though.  In 1951, Sakowitz opened an $8 million store at Main and Dallas, across from Foley’s (now Macy’s).  The new five-story building was made of white Vermont marble, with a recessed entrance flanked by metal magnolia blossoms. 

 

I've also finally found several references to the basement of the Sakowitz building.  The best one is one DowntownHouston.org's website:

 

Sakowitz Building

1111 Main. Conversion of the Sakowitz Building into a parking garage for the 1010 Lamar

building including facade restoration. Designed such that the first floor and basement could be

converted back to retail in the future. Developer: BPF Real Estate. Estimated cost: $3.5 million

 

So it does(did) apparently have a total of six levels.  The 225,000 square footage quoted above seems to make sense.  (There may have also been a mezannine, which could have led to the higher square footage sometimes seen for the building.)

Edited March 28, 2014 by Houston19514

[arche_757]

Hmm... perhaps THIS is the building with the fallout shelter?  Since its pretty clear Foley's didn't have one from the demo pictures?  That would make up for the sq. ft. discrepancy.

[Houston19514]

Hmm... perhaps THIS is the building with the fallout shelter?  Since its pretty clear Foley's didn't have one from the demo pictures?  That would make up for the sq. ft. discrepancy.

 

What square foot discrepancy?   5 floors plus basement x 37,500 square feet = 224,500 square feet.  The fallout shelter of urban mythology was supposed to have been something like 7 levels underground, not just a basement.

 

If you are referring to the discrepancy between the 224,500 we have come up with and the Chronicle's quoted 254,000 square feet, I think the most-likely explanation is... it's the Chronicle, where facts are optional.  ;-)

 

And as I mentioned in my earlier post, there may have also been a mezzanine. 

[arche_757]

Well... 5 x 37,500 does not equal 224,500!

 

So there is the discrepancy!

 

Here is what HCAD says:

http://www.hcad.org/records/details.asp?crypt=%94%9A%B0%94%BFg%84%8D%80%7Clg%8El%87tXtYW%9E%99%A2%D3%89%95%C2e%7CU%8A%80%86%C0%AB%A8%AD%86%5E&bld=1&tab=2

 

This says the building is from 1998, but that's probably when it was converted to a parking structure from its previous form.

[Houston19514]

Well... 5 x 37,500 does not equal 224,500!

So there is the discrepancy!

Here is what HCAD says:

http://www.hcad.org/records/details.asp?crypt=%94%9A%B0%94%BFg%84%8D%80%7Clg%8El%87tXtYW%9E%99%A2%D3%89%95%C2e%7CU%8A%80%86%C0%AB%A8%AD%86%5E&bld=1&tab=2

This says the building is from 1998, but that's probably when it was converted to a parking structure from its previous form.

Seriously? We've determined the building was a five story building and that it had a basement. That is 6 x 37,500 = 224,500.

The building was built in 1951 so the HCAD info clearly refers to its conversion to and status as a parking garage.

But more to the original point, even if it's only 187,500 square feet it is very likely to be plenty large for Nordstrom. More likely too large than too small

Edited March 28, 2014 by Houston19514

[arche_757]

 

You tell me?  Looks like 4 floors in this photograph.

 

HCAD doesn't lie.  It is what it is.

 

Ok, screwed up - its 5 floors - but does that include a basement?

Edited March 28, 2014 by arche_757

[Houston19514]

^  And what it is, is a parking garage. I thought we were discussing its configuration when it was a department store.

and fwiw, HCAD may not lie, but they have a lot of bad information in their system.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Houston19514

[arche_757]

^True.  I forgot we already established its a 5 floor building.  You can get more levels in a parking garage in the same building height than an office/commercial building.

 

I'm sure there's room for more floors - department stores typically have nice floor-ceiling heights for that "open" look.

[mollusk]

I don't recall ever setting foot in the joint when it was Sakowitz (that was before I became such a snappy dresser), and I know I never parked there.  However, from the looks of things I would put it at four floors of retail space, plus a basement (most likely used as a stockroom), plus a top floor with a less grand ceiling height for offices and the like (since it was the mother ship).

Edited March 28, 2014 by mollusk

[cloud713]

I'm no architect (or artist), but this is my GreenStreet fantasy. In addition to the D&B/movie theater combo in the Sak building... A residential tower (since GS is mainly white I went with a white tower with green glass balconies (kind of Miami ish in appearance, but the overall style/design of my residential tower sucks)) on top of a reworked garage, with park space for the residents on the other portion of the garage. Carry the park space over on top of the old books a million portion (the sections on top of greenstreet could be open to the public, with the garage roof park strictly for residents), and finally over the covered walkway to the portion above forever XXI, providing an outdoor area for the hotel guests.

Then Putt Putt Golf on the roof above Lucky Strike, and possibly Laser Tag in one of the available spaces in GS. Make the area more family oriented/friendly so downtown isn't just a place for the mid 20s-30s crowd and second homes.

But I realize with a 5 star hotel, high end restaurants, ect, it may already be too late to refocus the development towards the family?

[monarch]

...so i'm guessing that the official floor count as per your "residential tower" could be in excess of about (90x floors) which as we all know, shall undoubtably include about (500,000sf) of your beloved (gfr) ground floor retail.  this of course shall make your "concept" the tallest and largest edifice upon the "western hemisphere...  am i correct?

 

well, i tell you what "cloud713"...   why don't you take the initiative to present your "architectural" renderings (concepts) to "mr. brinsden" the ceo of midway cos.,  and see just what he may think of them...   i mean, you may never ever know until you try it right...    putt putt!

 

I'm no architect (or artist), but this is my GreenStreet fantasy. In addition to the D&B/movie theater combo in the Sak building... A residential tower (since GS is mainly white I went with a white tower with green glass balconies (kind of Miami ish in appearance, but the overall style/design of my residential tower sucks)) on top of a reworked garage, with park space for the residents on the other portion of the garage. Carry the park space over on top of the old books a million portion (the sections on top of greenstreet could be open to the public, with the garage roof park strictly for residents), and finally over the covered walkway to the portion above forever XXI, providing an outdoor area for the hotel guests.
Then Putt Putt Golf on the roof above Lucky Strike, and possibly Laser Tag in one of the available spaces in GS. Make the area more family oriented/friendly so downtown isn't just a place for the mid 20s-30s crowd and second homes.

But I realize with a 5 star hotel, high end restaurants, ect, it may already be too late to refocus the development towards the family?

 

[por favor gracias]

I'm no architect (or artist), but this is my GreenStreet fantasy. In addition to the D&B/movie theater combo in the Sak building... A residential tower (since GS is mainly white I went with a white tower with green glass balconies (kind of Miami ish in appearance, but the overall style/design of my residential tower sucks)) on top of a reworked garage, with park space for the residents on the other portion of the garage. Carry the park space over on top of the old books a million portion (the sections on top of greenstreet could be open to the public, with the garage roof park strictly for residents), and finally over the covered walkway to the portion above forever XXI, providing an outdoor area for the hotel guests.

Then Putt Putt Golf on the roof above Lucky Strike, and possibly Laser Tag in one of the available spaces in GS. Make the area more family oriented/friendly so downtown isn't just a place for the mid 20s-30s crowd and second homes.

But I realize with a 5 star hotel, high end restaurants, ect, it may already be too late to refocus the development towards the family?

 

The "only thing" I would change about the design of your residential tower would be to make it look like a Flying V with flames on the side...

 

Other than THAT, well done! 

[por favor gracias]

 

...so i'm guessing that the official floor count as per your "residential tower" could be in excess of about (90x floors) which as we all know, shall undoubtably include about (500,000sf) of your beloved (gfr) ground floor retail.  this of course shall make your "concept" the tallest and largest edifice upon the "western hemisphere...  am i correct?

 

well, i tell you what "cloud713"...   why don't you take the initiative to present your "architectural" renderings (concepts) to "mr. brinsden" the ceo of midway cos.,  and see just what he may think of them...   i mean, you may never ever know until you try it right...    putt putt!

 

 

 

 

I "count" at least 100 floors from cloud713's "rendering."

[cloud713]

...so i'm guessing that the official floor count as per your "residential tower" could be in excess of about (90x floors) which as we all know, shall undoubtably include about (500,000sf) of your beloved (gfr) ground floor retail. this of course shall make your "concept" the tallest and largest edifice upon the "western hemisphere... am i correct?

well, i tell you what "cloud713"... why don't you take the initiative to present your "architectural" renderings (concepts) to "mr. brinsden" the ceo of midway cos., and see just what he may think of them... i mean, you may never ever know until you try it right... putt putt!

Err, what's with the doucheyness? I get that this is an architecture forum, and my drawings/building were far from great, architecturally speaking. I even admitted that and indicated the building would look different, it was merely just a place holder.

90+ floors? There are like 20 rows/floors of balconies. It's barely taller than the 28ish story Hotel Alessandra (obviously they're not drawn exactly to scale).

What's wrong with putt putt? It's great for families and tourists. And on the roof of greenstreet, in the middle of downtown, surrounded by skyscrapers? How cool would that be.. It's not like the roof is being used for anything atm..

There was actually no ground floor retail for my residential tower, thank you very much. But now that you mention it, may as well throw some retail in the garage along Main.

I "count" at least 100 floors from cloud713's "rendering."

Lol! Edited March 29, 2014 by cloud713

[lockmat]

Err, what's with the doucheyness? I get that this is an architecture forum, and my drawings/building were far from great, architecturally speaking. I even admitted that and indicated the building would look different, it was merely just a place holder.

90+ floors? There are like 20 rows/floors of balconies. It's barely taller than the 28ish story Hotel Alessandra (obviously they're not drawn exactly to scale).

What's wrong with putt putt? It's great for families and tourists. And on the roof of greenstreet, in the middle of downtown, surrounded by skyscrapers? How cool would that be.. It's not like the roof is being used for anything atm..

There was actually no ground floor retail for my residential tower, thank you very much. But now that you mention it, may as well throw some retail in the garage along Main.

Lol!

 

I don't think monarch was being sarcastic

[cloud713]

The "only thing" I would change about the design of your residential tower would be to make it look like a Flying V with flames on the side...

Other than THAT, well done!

Yeah the residential tower sucks. I spent the least amount of time on that part since it doesn't exist and I had nothing to go off of.

Thanks though. I got bored waiting on some friends to get back in town so I sketched that up since we were discussing ways to improve GS. I had plans to sketch out other venues for the roof of GRB, and Houston Center but I may hold off on those after monarchs response. Lol

[por favor gracias]

Yeah the residential tower sucks. I spent the least amount of time on that part since it doesn't exist and I had nothing to go off of.

Thanks though. I got bored waiting on some friends to get back in town so I sketched that up since we were discussing ways to improve GS. I had plans to sketch out other venues for the roof of GRB, and Houston Center but I may hold off on those after monarchs response. Lol

 

Right on with the light on!

 

I actually thought that rendering was really good...

 

Yikes!

[UtterlyUrban]

Personally, I like the sketch and think the ideas in it are interesting (although I don't think a mini-golf thing is a good idea, regardless, it certainly is an interesting one). About the only thing that surprises me about your idea and sketch is the odd reaction it has triggered in some.

[cloud713]

Heh, yeah the mini golf and laser tag are a little questionable (I still think mini golf in the middle of a sea of highrises would be pretty sweet. Maybe the course could even be like a mini urban city). I don't think downtown is family friendly enough/touristy enough yet to attract those kind of crowds. Though you've got to start somewhere.. I think GreenStreet/the new touristy shopping district is the best bet.

In a way, i was basically just showing that the roof could be repurposed for other venues/entertainment, since GreenStreet doesn't have much more room for expansion. Maybe in another 10 years when they renovate the place again and there is less available land downtown/land prices have gone up even higher.

[democide]

Heh, yeah the mini golf and laser tag are a little questionable (I still think mini golf in the middle of a sea of highrises would be pretty sweet. Maybe the course could even be like a mini urban city). I don't think downtown is family friendly enough/touristy enough yet to attract those kind of crowds. Though you've got to start somewhere.. I think GreenStreet/the new touristy shopping district is the best bet.

In a way, i was basically just showing that the roof could be repurposed for other venues/entertainment, since GreenStreet doesn't have much more room for expansion. Maybe in another 10 years when they renovate the place again and there is less available land downtown/land prices have gone up even higher.

 

Playing laser tag in an outdoor urban environment, you can call the attraction "Urban Warfare," that should sell.

[citykid09]

Who thinks W Hotels is now thinking "Is there something about Houston that we have been ignoring?" They have Hotels in all the major cities but have skipped Houston for years. Atlanta alone has 3 W hotels.

[cloud713]

Playing laser tag in an outdoor urban environment, you can call the attraction "Urban Warfare," that should sell.

Lol, no. If they decided to go for a more family oriented venue, and thought laser tag could be desirable, it would obviously be inside in one of the available places for lease in GS. I've never seen laser tag outside. Geez.. You'd think we weren't allowed to have opinions on how to better these developments were following.. Last I heard we all agreed GreenStreet could use some improvement.

[Triton]

 

 

 

 

 

Wooden fish

[Triton]

Future site of Hotel Alessandra:

 

 

Bottom floor

 

Fannin torn up

 

The second floor area where the hotel will connect (with my bike)

 

 

 

 

[monarch]

great pics triton.  thanks for sharing.

[monarch]

haif members,

 

as i take a moment to canvas over "triton's" simple and yet perfect illustrations, i cannot help but think just how "brilliant" a strategy that "midway cos" was, in purchasing the bitter functioning "houston pavilions".  

 

what a difference a few month's of "rebranding" can actually make to a entertainment venue that was once upon the wane.  GREENSTREET, as we are now calling it...   shall now become positioned to ensure that houston may forget about the upsurge regarding the downtown's of both dallas as well as austin, tx.  once the very recently announced "hotel alessandra" comes into fruition...  there shall be no stopping downtown houston!

 

and yet, thanks to the generosity and expertise of such haif members such as "triton" vs "larry dierker's" wonderful photo's...   we shall now be able to just sit back and fantasize, at just how future development as per GREENSTREET shall now evolve into reality.  this is gonna be fun!     

 

Edited March 31, 2014 by monarch

[Dakota79]

It seems very narrow to me. It will be interesting to see once the hotel Alessandra is in.

[arche_757]

^What?  I'm confused by your post.