GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[Houston19514]

That plan called for making main the retail center ,but dallas was inculded.. this one shifts the focus onto Dallas a;; the way down to the convention center ..

 

 

No, it didn't.  The plan is on the first page of this thread.  The primary focus is Dallas Street, not Main.

[Moore713]

No, it didn't.  The plan is on the first page of this thread.  The primary focus is Dallas Street, not Main.

I stand corrected

[cloud713]

I had never heard about this originally but the idea is very exciting. Downtown needs a legit retail district. This looks promising if the incentives program works anything like the residential incentives did.

Does anyone think the city will extend the residential incentives program? Seems like it will be ending about when this one is beginning

[towerjunkie]

I don't know about this project. I think they should wait to see if the Greenstreet Project is a success and then go from there. Just to be secure. 

[Moore713]

I don't know about this project. I think they should wait to see if the Greenstreet Project is a success and then go from there. Just to be secure. 

 My all measure green st was.. the venues have a good side crowd.. the only fail was mangaement themselves... the venues actually seem to do quite well. That is prob what they basing it on.

[j_cuevas713]

This ”proposal” is going to get passed. Everyone loves a tax break. This is far from just a dream, Houston is the place to be. Some of you in this forum that believe this is all just a dream havent realized that this is where EVERYONE is coming. Houston isnt the 3rd wheel city anymore. We are become a premier spot nationally!

[fatesdisastr]

lol second.. if this block takes off ... dallaites will never let us hear the end of it...  

 

Not really true, at least we could say the best thing about Dallas is in Houston

[Guest Jackwood]

I think before anything is done at all, they need to change the name of the street to something that doesn't make people want to vomit when they hear it.

[bachanon]

Dallas and W. Gray, from Downtown to River Oaks, would be fantastic development corridors. Imagine a revived Montrose Blvd Management District connecting the Dallas/W. Gray development corridor with Main. Add a few major park projects......I digress.

I have no problem with Dallas as a street name in Houston.

Any commitment to Dallas street as a retail corridor should extend outside I-45/Pierce to enhance pedestrian activity beyond the CBD. Downtown streetscape/pedestrian planning needs to ALWAYS extend beyond the freeway perimeter to increase Downtown interconnectivity with emerging neighborhoods.

[ArchFan]

... I have no problem with Dallas as a street name in Houston. 

 

Nor do I, although in honesty I must admit I have to permit the rational part of my mind take precedence over the (remnant) teenage competitive part :-)  From a practical point of view, maybe we can get some free "bounce" from Dallas' (the city's) efforts to promote itself.  (Just kidding, but it's a fun idea!  Especially since I think they are better at it than we are.)  

 

Seriously, San Antonio and Dallas both have a "Houston Street".  So, I don't really see a need to change the name of our Dallas Street.  It is a part of our history, after all.  Perhaps, some day, people in Houston and Dallas will grow up enough to appreciate each other's positive aspects, much as human siblings do.  Or, is that an absurd idea, since we have a steady supply of new teenagers coming online?  

 

Back to the original topic:  I'm old enough to have faint memories of downtown Houston really being the place to go for many things.  E.g., the only place to select from a wide range of out-of-town newspapers (across the street from the Rice Hotel).  Several movie theaters.  The only place with a diversity of shopping options that could compete with Gulfgate (of all places)!  Living on the west side, it was a very big deal when Sharpstown Mall opened:  no more long drives to downtown or Gulfgate to shop!

[Texasota]

Nor do I, although in honesty I must admit I have to permit the rational part of my mind take precedence over the (remnant) teenage competitive part :-)  From a practical point of view, maybe we can get some free "bounce" from Dallas' (the city's) efforts to promote itself.  (Just kidding, but it's a fun idea!  Especially since I think they are better at it than we are.)  

 

Seriously, San Antonio and Dallas both have a "Houston Street".  So, I don't really see a need to change the name of our Dallas Street.  It is a part of our history, after all.  Perhaps, some day, people in Houston and Dallas will grow up enough to appreciate each other's positive aspects, much as human siblings do.  Or, is that an absurd idea, since we have a steady supply of new teenagers coming online?  

 

Back to the original topic:  I'm old enough to have faint memories of downtown Houston really being the place to go for many things.  E.g., the only place to select from a wide range of out-of-town newspapers (across the street from the Rice Hotel).  Several movie theaters.  The only place with a diversity of shopping options that could compete with Gulfgate (of all places)!  Living on the west side, it was a very big deal when Sharpstown Mall opened:  no more long drives to downtown or Gulfgate to shop!

 

If Dallas develops some positive aspects I'll be happy to appreciate 'em.

 

/kidding...sorta

 

 

I wonder if Downtown will ever *really* be the center of the city in that way again. Maybe Houston will just keep developing into a mass of heavily differentiated mini cities, with Downtown as one of them.

[towerjunkie]

I can't help but wonder, doesn't it need something to attract people. Maybe some sort of lighting scheme like L.A. live to let people know that it's there.  It would really attract people if it had an observation tower I mean come on who doesn't want to look at our town!  

Then again if this is a sort of semi- high end project the whole lighting scheme wouldn't be appreciated. 

[Guest Jackwood]

At the risk of sounding like an immature teenager,  I just want the street name changed because I don't want anyone to associate Houston's new downtown premier shopping district with cow-pies.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Jackwood

[j_cuevas713]

At the risk of sounding like an immature teenager, I just want the street name changed because I don't want anyone to associate Houston's new downtown premier shopping district with cow-pies.

As crazy as some people may think it is, I agree 100%. I remember the city considering changing the street name when Mayor White was in office, but I never heard much after that. Id just rename it to Houston St. or hell make it a Blvd and name it Houston Blvd.

[lockmat]

Doesn't Dallas have a Houston street downtown? Seems more like a tribute to each other.

[TowerSpotter]

Doesn't Dallas have a Houston street downtown? Seems more like a tribute to each other.

 

Yeah, I hope they leave it to be Dallas street. 

[scarface]

Doesn't Dallas have a Houston street downtown? Seems more like a tribute to each other.

 

that's a good way of looking at it.

[musicman]

I guess if it makes someone "feel better" it's a good idea.

[Urbannizer]

Sept 16 from GreenStreet FB page:

[Subdude]

I realize their hearts are in the right place, but is turning Dallas into a retail strip realistic?  On one side is Green Street which mainly faces inward.  Isn't it mainly parking garages on the north side of the street?  That said, I do like the idea of the widened sidewalks to allow street dining.  That could make a big difference if the right restaurants are around. 

 

Somehow I think the Downtown District has visions of chic boutiques in their head, Apple Stores and whatnot, but I'm not sure that is what the area needs or can support.  Is the idea more to serve convention attendees, residents, or daytime office workers?

 

 

[IronTiger]

I'm not sure if the retail district is a good idea, it seems like a waste of taxpayer money. For one thing, it would need to attract people who live in downtown (not 9-to-5ers exclusively). As I have stated before, Target is a reasonable idea (perhaps connected with apartments and the tunnel system). Any attempt, historically in America in the last 50 years, to attract suburbanites back to downtown to shop has been more or less a failure. 

[Slick Vik]

I'm not sure if the retail district is a good idea, it seems like a waste of taxpayer money. For one thing, it would need to attract people who live in downtown (not 9-to-5ers exclusively). As I have stated before, Target is a reasonable idea (perhaps connected with apartments and the tunnel system). Any attempt, historically in America in the last 50 years, to attract suburbanites back to downtown to shop has been more or less a failure. 

 

What about Portland?

[largeTEXAS]

I'm not sure if the retail district is a good idea, it seems like a waste of taxpayer money. For one thing, it would need to attract people who live in downtown (not 9-to-5ers exclusively). As I have stated before, Target is a reasonable idea (perhaps connected with apartments and the tunnel system). Any attempt, historically in America in the last 50 years, to attract suburbanites back to downtown to shop has been more or less a failure. 

 

This is not about attracting "suburbanites" to shop downtown. While they might make up part of the mix of shoppers, this is about providing a district in the heart of the city for the growing number of people who live, work, and visit downtown. Ground floor retail and retail that is open on the weekends is sorely lacking downtown. As the new (and not even announced yet) residential towers and mid-rises get built, as the rail lines are completed, as the new hotels are completed, as the convention center expands and new and bigger conventions are added, as the East End and Midtown fill in, as Buffalo Bayou continues to be transformed and becomes even more of an attraction, etc, there will be more and more reasons for downtown to need retail. In its current state, downtown will not be able to meet that need. A little planning for current and future needs would go a long way.

 

Just look at Market Square's revival. Most people seemed to write it off as dead forever just a few months ago. Then the little park that many said would always just be a homeless hangout was rebuilt. Things change, cities change; Houston is finally starting to change in ways that many of us probably hoped it would a long time ago. 

[Moore713]

This is not about attracting "suburbanites" to shop downtown. While they might make up part of the mix of shoppers, this is about providing a district in the heart of the city for the growing number of people who live, work, and visit downtown. Ground floor retail and retail that is open on the weekends is sorely lacking downtown. As the new (and not even announced yet) residential towers and mid-rises get built, as the rail lines are completed, as the new hotels are completed, as the convention center expands and new and bigger conventions are added, as the East End and Midtown fill in, as Buffalo Bayou continues to be transformed and becomes even more of an attraction, etc, there will be more and more reasons for downtown to need retail. In its current state, downtown will not be able to meet that need. A little planning for current and future needs would go a long way.

 

Just look at Market Square's revival. Most people seemed to write it off as dead forever just a few months ago. Then the little park that many said would always just be a homeless hangout was rebuilt. Things change, cities change; Houston is finally starting to change in ways that many of us probably hoped it would a long time ago. 

Thank you finale some who gets it,!! They said no one would ride the rail a waste of tax dollars, but it averages more than  41,000 people a day Q1 2013 numbers. Which give it limited  length actually makes it one of the most used LRT in the nation per mile.Ihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_light_rail_systems_by_ridership

 

They said no one would bite on the Tax break for resdinetal. How many are on the planning board now ? There excuse no one wants to live downtown..Then why is the 900 are so units almost all sold or rented out ?

 

Now they say no one will bite on the Retail tax break.. they point to Green st as proof, while ignoring that Green st failed on a mangament side, not a venue. the business that make up green st  have faired quite well actually. Second they keep thinking this about bringing people in the burbs back to the city.. it not the math has already shown that 130,000 people live within 3 mile radios of Downtown of various income.. 130,000 people who are a LRT ride away a 5 min car ride away. It not that they dont want to shop downtown its that there is nothing for them to shop at downtown. The economic base is already there for the first time in a long time all the right parts in are in place to make DT a place to go... I think people are hung up on the 80,s when we moved too fast, but is,nt there also a danger of moving too slow and letting this window to transform dt Houston close ?

[shasta]

This is not about attracting "suburbanites" to shop downtown. While they might make up part of the mix of shoppers, this is about providing a district in the heart of the city for the growing number of people who live, work, and visit downtown. Ground floor retail and retail that is open on the weekends is sorely lacking downtown. As the new (and not even announced yet) residential towers and mid-rises get built, as the rail lines are completed, as the new hotels are completed, as the convention center expands and new and bigger conventions are added, as the East End and Midtown fill in, as Buffalo Bayou continues to be transformed and becomes even more of an attraction, etc, there will be more and more reasons for downtown to need retail. In its current state, downtown will not be able to meet that need. A little planning for current and future needs would go a long way.

 

Just look at Market Square's revival. Most people seemed to write it off as dead forever just a few months ago. Then the little park that many said would always just be a homeless hangout was rebuilt. Things change, cities change; Houston is finally starting to change in ways that many of us probably hoped it would a long time ago. 

 

 

I agree...cities are built in layers..on top of previos layers....they always have been. Those that fail to understand this and think things will not work just because they hadn't worked  before are ignorant of the past.

 

New development (the market) always strives to keep up with the current or just in sight layer.

[Guest Jackwood]

I don't think anyone seriously believes that a sparkling brand new version of Time Square is about to open up on Dallas St. just in time to greet the out-of-towners for Superbowl LI. But, you have to admire the COH for at least doing something to try to start the ball rolling. This is a long range vision for the area -and a good one. If the COH makes it easier to attract the retailers that might help to pump a little life into downtown after dark, why would anyone want to stop them. The GRB/Discovery Green area had to start somewhere too. 30 years ago it was nothing but parking lots in that area, now there is some seriously impressive infrastructure. 

 

New residential buildings seem to be going up a steady pace in downtown and midtown. If they hit critical mass, then it would be a very good idea to have a designated retail corridor in the middle of downtown off the light rail.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Jackwood

[H-Town Man]

Not as sexy as a rendering, but they are getting after the re-do presently...

 

 

 

On the contrary, sexier.

[livincinco]

I think that Iron Tiger's original point though is about the type of retail that is desired.  I agree with his point that high end retail is not particularly desirable downtown.

 

I agree with most posters that downtown retail should not be destination retail.

[Texasota]

I disagree. I think part of the reason Phoenicia has managed to do well is the fact that it's basically a "destination" grocery store. Even in Montrose I live closer to half a dozen grocery stores than to Phoenicia, but I'll still shop there because they offer something unique.

 

I think the trick is finding retail that is useful to people who live downtown but also attracts people from the surrounding neighbrohoods

[largeTEXAS]

I disagree. I think part of the reason Phoenicia has managed to do well is the fact that it's basically a "destination" grocery store. Even in Montrose I live closer to half a dozen grocery stores than to Phoenicia, but I'll still shop there because they offer something unique.

 

I think the trick is finding retail that is useful to people who live downtown but also attracts people from the surrounding neighbrohoods

 

 

Good point. Destination retail is always great, if you can get them downtown. But, to build a truly sustainable retail district, all kinds of retail is necessary.