Pearl Marketplace At Midtown: Multifamily At 3120 Smith St.

[drecey]

@HTown Man true! I often times compare Uptown Dallas to Midtown Houston because I feel that they are the most urban parts of the city. I think Midtown should add more national retail stores that will attract people (think a development like West Village in Dallas). Because I remember when I used to live in Denton, me and my friends would drive almost an hour just to have dinner in west vil. My FAVORITE part of midtown (and one of my favorites in the whole city) is that bagby/west gray Post development. I love how urban, inviting, pedestrian friendly and landscaped it is. I don't think Midtown is that far behind, but like u said, the development is scattered throughout that neighborhood. They have to get rid of the few remaining pieces of riff raff (greyhound station/that ghetto mcdonalds) and add more destination type developments.

Edited May 12, 2015 by drecey

[KinkaidAlum]

The best part about the Uptown Dallas project? The townhouses that face the street without a menacing garage. There's an actual front door. Thrown in some stoops and you'd be on to something...

[bobruss]

For as much as I don't like Dallas, I really admire how over the years they have valued old structures and neighborhoods. I remember

spending time up there in the early 70's and they had just converted an old regional car storage structure that housed cars for GM or

Ford up off of Central expressway that a developer converted into one of the most wonderful shopping centers called Olla Podrida.

It was a very urban feeling rustic old brick 2 story warehouse with big wooden beams and wonderful skylights. It housed art galleries,

florists, clothing stores a couple of restaurants, and various specialty shops. They are light years ahead of us on repurposing old

buildings and redesigning neighborhoods to be more urban and pedestrian friendly. The whole Mckinney area, all the way to the new

museum districts totally amazing. Also what they did to the freeway to create the park. Whether you like Dallas or not you have to give them credit for being so forward thinking.

I've lived in Houston my whole life and it frustrates me how much more progressive they are in the area of revitalizing old areas and

turning them into beautiful neighborhoods, profitable structures and exciting areas to walk around in.

Midtown is light years behind in this regard. Our main problem is our developers and our planning board. For the most part just don't

get it. They always want to use their suburban models no matter where they build.

Take CVS for example. They have urban designed stores but we can't seem to make it a point to force

them to use these more appropriate plans in places like Midtown and Montrose. That falls on our unplanning department. They just don't get it. I'm sorry I went off on a tangent. Never mind.

[H-Town Man]

I don't think they have us beat on all points. I think our downtown has developed better thus far, and our lack of planning sometimes makes for a nice spontaneous feel. It's also good to remember that their Uptown contains much of what we have put into our Uptown (Post Oak) area, with most of Dallas' high end condo towers and some of the best hotels. This has given Uptown Dallas a prestige that has helped attract residents and investment to the area, while Midtown Houston still has a lot of mistrust.

 

But I don't want to get into a Houston vs. Dallas discussion, other than to pinpoint specific things that we can learn from them.

 

[Houston19514]

For as much as I don't like Dallas, I really admire how over the years they have valued old structures and neighborhoods. I remember

spending time up there in the early 70's and they had just converted an old regional car storage structure that housed cars for GM or

Ford up off of Central expressway that a developer converted into one of the most wonderful shopping centers called Olla Podrida.

It was a very urban feeling rustic old brick 2 story warehouse with big wooden beams and wonderful skylights. It housed art galleries,

florists, clothing stores a couple of restaurants, and various specialty shops. They are light years ahead of us on repurposing old

buildings and redesigning neighborhoods to be more urban and pedestrian friendly. The whole Mckinney area, all the way to the new

museum districts totally amazing. Also what they did to the freeway to create the park. Whether you like Dallas or not you have to give them credit for being so forward thinking.

I've lived in Houston my whole life and it frustrates me how much more progressive they are in the area of revitalizing old areas and

turning them into beautiful neighborhoods, profitable structures and exciting areas to walk around in.

Midtown is light years behind in this regard. Our main problem is our developers and our planning board. For the most part just don't

get it. They always want to use their suburban models no matter where they build.

Take CVS for example. They have urban designed stores but we can't seem to make it a point to force

them to use these more appropriate plans in places like Midtown and Montrose. That falls on our unplanning department. They just don't get it. I'm sorry I went off on a tangent. Never mind.

 

Yeah, Dallas would never ever ever allow abominations like these in their Uptown area:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.801441,-96.794494,3a,75y,144.33h,101.86/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s7g3nlLf9j0OMJLnExWFMig!2e0!6m1!1e1

 

https://geo0.ggpht.com/cbk?cb_client=maps_sv.tactile&authuser=0&hl=en&output=thumbnail&thumb=2&panoid=Zqfql-hr0ZoyJ9vaKHfn7A&w=402&h=168&yaw=182.739448271579&pitch=-9.92653077167742&ll=32.805617,-96.798081

 

https://geo0.ggpht.com/cbk?cb_client=maps_sv.tactile&authuser=0&hl=en&output=thumbnail&thumb=2&panoid=Zqfql-hr0ZoyJ9vaKHfn7A&w=402&h=168&yaw=78.41542995178565&pitch=-9.094352943752938&ll=32.805617,-96.798081

 

https://geo0.ggpht.com/cbk?cb_client=maps_sv.tactile&authuser=0&hl=en&output=thumbnail&thumb=2&panoid=7Ssd4e_hmV3MS3Zs-iPAog&w=402&h=168&yaw=358.8258072415271&pitch=-10.529958657249892&ll=32.806422,-96.799

 

[H-Town Man]

Yeah, Dallas would never ever ever allow abominations like these in their Uptown area:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.801441,-96.794494,3a,75y,144.33h,101.86/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s7g3nlLf9j0OMJLnExWFMig!2e0!6m1!1e1

 

https://geo0.ggpht.com/cbk?cb_client=maps_sv.tactile&authuser=0&hl=en&output=thumbnail&thumb=2&panoid=Zqfql-hr0ZoyJ9vaKHfn7A&w=402&h=168&yaw=182.739448271579&pitch=-9.92653077167742&ll=32.805617,-96.798081

 

https://geo0.ggpht.com/cbk?cb_client=maps_sv.tactile&authuser=0&hl=en&output=thumbnail&thumb=2&panoid=Zqfql-hr0ZoyJ9vaKHfn7A&w=402&h=168&yaw=78.41542995178565&pitch=-9.094352943752938&ll=32.805617,-96.798081

 

https://geo0.ggpht.com/cbk?cb_client=maps_sv.tactile&authuser=0&hl=en&output=thumbnail&thumb=2&panoid=7Ssd4e_hmV3MS3Zs-iPAog&w=402&h=168&yaw=358.8258072415271&pitch=-10.529958657249892&ll=32.806422,-96.799

 

 

It's true that an area as large as Uptown Dallas has some car-oriented developments, but strategy is involved in where these are allowed and not allowed. The Neighborhood Wal-Mart you posted, for instance, is hemmed in between a cemetery and a freeway. If you're going to put a grocery store anywhere, that's the place to do it.

 

Meanwhile our suburban CVS on Main Street just south of the Superblock would be like building a suburban CVS along the heart of McKinney Avenue when it was developing 10 years ago. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have been allowed.

Edited May 12, 2015 by H-Town Man

[Houston19514]

It's true that an area as large as Uptown Dallas has some car-oriented developments, but strategy is involved in where these are allowed and not allowed. The Neighborhood Wal-Mart you posted, for instance, is hemmed in between a cemetery and a freeway. If you're going to put a grocery store anywhere, that's the place to do it.

 

Meanwhile our suburban CVS on Main Street just south of the Superblock would be like building a suburban CVS along the heart of McKinney Avenue when it was developing 10 years ago. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have been allowed.

 

Or sort of like building the very suburban-style Truluck's restaurant (that is just now being completed)?

 

Or their suburban Walgreens at McKinney and Lemmon.

 

Or maybe their brand new suburban CVS at McKinney and Lemmon.  Pretty sure that wouldn't be allowed...  ;-)

Edited May 12, 2015 by Houston19514

[H-Town Man]

Or sort of like building the very suburban-style Truluck's restaurant (that is just now being completed)?

 

The Truluck's that it replaced (south corner of the block) was an urban-style location with zero setbacks. My guess as to why they set back its replacement so far (northwest corner of the block) is to free up the corner land for an eventual high rise. The land values virtually dictate a highrise at that corner.

 

 

I think we're all just trying to find ways to make Midtown better. So let's resist the urge to one-up people with dubious examples.

[Avossos]

I encourage everyone who complains about our suburban style in midtown go get involved in TIRZ and neighborhood groups and Houston Planning to make your voices heard.

So Houston is working on a general plan... Wouldn't it be great that they planned for midtown to be very urban?

Also, I have confidence midtown will continue to become more and more urban with time and planning. Everywhere inside the loop between downtown and uptown is slowly becoming more and more urban. We are making great progress. Let's Realize that this is a huge span of land that has challanges, but eventually we will Have a large urban belt that we all can enjoy (or not). Remember it's ok if not every area is urban.

[BigFootsSocks]

I encourage everyone who complains about our suburban style in midtown go get involved in TIRZ and neighborhood groups and Houston Planning to make your voices heard.

So Houston is working on a general plan... Wouldn't it be great that they planned for midtown to be very urban?

Also, I have confidence midtown will continue to become more and more urban with time and planning. Everywhere inside the loop between downtown and uptown is slowly becoming more and more urban. We are making great progress. Let's Realize that this is a huge span of land that has challanges, but eventually we will Have a large urban belt that we all can enjoy (or not). Remember it's ok if not every area is urban.

So we've seen the successes of master planned communities in terms of luxury amenities and how close in proximity they are to homeowners. The thing that is so amazing about this project is that provides a close urban shopping experience while revitizing midtown areas.

That being said, how difficult would it be to have a master-planned redevelopment?

[BigFootsSocks]

I encourage everyone who complains about our suburban style in midtown go get involved in TIRZ and neighborhood groups and Houston Planning to make your voices heard.

So Houston is working on a general plan... Wouldn't it be great that they planned for midtown to be very urban?

Also, I have confidence midtown will continue to become more and more urban with time and planning. Everywhere inside the loop between downtown and uptown is slowly becoming more and more urban. We are making great progress. Let's Realize that this is a huge span of land that has challanges, but eventually we will Have a large urban belt that we all can enjoy (or not). Remember it's ok if not every area is urban.

So we've seen the successes of master planned communities in terms of luxury amenities and how close in proximity they are to homeowners. The thing that is so amazing about this project is that provides a close urban shopping experience while revitizing midtown areas.

That being said, how difficult would it be to have a master-planned redevelopment?

[Houston19514]

The Truluck's that it replaced (south corner of the block) was an urban-style location with zero setbacks. My guess as to why they set back its replacement so far (northwest corner of the block) is to free up the corner land for an eventual high rise. The land values virtually dictate a highrise at that corner.

 

Trulucks.PNG

 

I think we're all just trying to find ways to make Midtown better. So let's resist the urge to one-up people with dubious examples.

 

LOL  Yes, let's resist the urge to show with photos and proof that many pre-conceptions about other cities are exaggerated, at best.

 

In case you missed it the first time, here's the brand new suburban CVS that just wouldn't be allowed in the nirvana of Uptown Dallas.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Houston19514

[H-Town Man]

Or sort of like building the very suburban-style Truluck's restaurant (that is just now being completed)?

 

Or their suburban Walgreens at McKinney and Lemmon.

 

Or maybe their brand new suburban CVS at McKinney and Lemmon.  Pretty sure that wouldn't be allowed...  ;-)

 

Way to edit your post after the first example didn't work. Lemmon Ave. is a major cross-town artery that would never be zoned for pedestrian-oriented development. It would also not, by anyone who has been there, be considered "the heart of McKinney Avenue."

Edited May 12, 2015 by H-Town Man

[H-Town Man]

LOL  Yes, let's resist the urge to show with photos and proof that many pre-conceptions about other cities are exaggerated, at best.

 

In case you missed it the first time, here's the brand new suburban CVS that just wouldn't be allowed in the nirvana of Uptown Dallas.

 

In case you missed it the first time, I said that of course in an area as large as Uptown Dallas there are going to be some car-oriented developments, but there is strategy as to where they are placed. I said you wouldn't have seen something like a suburban CVS allowed in the heart of McKinney Avenue as it was developing 10 years ago. No one familiar with Dallas would call the corner of McKinney and Lemmon the heart of McKinney Avenue.

 

Are you familiar with the term "straw man argument"?

[Houston19514]

Yeah, I like our proposed Whole Foods/residential project better anyway. 

[monarch]

by all means, please carry on....

[DrLan34]

Construction will start early next year. The building will be 8 stories tall consisting of two levels for Whole Foods, 260 apartments, 2 levels for resident parking, and two levels of underground parking for Whole Foods customers. Rosalie will be closed between Smith & Brazos for development which will also spill onto the block north. The store will face Smith St. It will be a part of the pearl brand.

 

Looks like the store might face Elgin with a car entrance on Smith. This looks like what is shown in the rendering too based on the location of downtown. (also might have an entrance off Smith since it expands into the corner at Elgin and Smith)

 

http://swamplot.com/new-midtown-whole-foods-market-will-stand-apartments-on-its-head-shut-down-a-street-become-center-of-universe/2015-05-08/

 

"The view is across Elgin St., with a high-ceilinged vehicle entrance coming in off Smith, a one-way street with traffic flowing south." 

Edited May 12, 2015 by DrLan34

[cspwal]

From the rendering it looks like that vehicle entrance is where Rosaile is - think that it might be a thru alley similar to Skyhouse?

[Luminare]

From the rendering it looks like that vehicle entrance is where Rosaile is - think that it might be a thru alley similar to Skyhouse?

 

I'm wondering if there is going to be a sort of "phase 2" in all this that pearl is planning because i don't see a reason to encroach on Rosaile if you just going to abandon that part of the road all together and just build on the next block over as well.

[cspwal]

One of the articles made it sound like Whole foods wasn't interested in a one block development but a larger size did interest them.  Maybe they want their floor plan to take up more than a block on the first floor?

[j_cuevas713]

I was just in dallas recently and I found nothing that stood out better than what we have here. They put suburban next to urban all over their 'uptown'. And the one thing I didn't like was how disorganized it felt. They had some corners that seemed to turn in to these grand areas only for them to fade out on the next block. I think the lack of a street grid didn't help either. Me and my gf wandered all over their downtown and I was not impressed at all. For all their 'planning' things seemed so out of place and so overdone.

Edited May 12, 2015 by j_cuevas713

[H-Town Man]

I was just in dallas recently and I found nothing that stood out better than what we have here. They put suburban next to urban all over their 'uptown'. And the one thing I didn't like was how disorganized it felt. They had some corners that seemed to turn in to these grand areas only for them to fade out on the next block. I think the lack of a street grid didn't help either. Me and my gf wandered all over their downtown and I was not impressed at all. For all their 'planning' things seemed so out of place and so overdone.

 

Simply looking at Google Earth and following the area around McKinney from Maple up to Blackburn (excepting of course where Lemmon crosses), should give you an example of an urban neighborhood that is probably the most successful in Texas outside of a downtown. But you are right, the lack of a street grid doesn't help, and I think will be a great positive factor for Midtown longterm.

 

[j_cuevas713]

Simply looking at Google Earth and following the area around McKinney from Maple up to Blackburn (excepting of course where Lemmon crosses), should give you an example of an urban neighborhood that is probably the most successful in Texas outside of a downtown. But you are right, the lack of a street grid doesn't help, and I think will be a great positive factor for Midtown longterm.

 

I think what I didn't like was it just seemed forced. Outside of that area the city tapers off drastically. And while a lot is still planned for the area, it felt more like a city center than a natural urban environment.

[DrLan34]

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/morning_call/2015/05/how-a-houston-apartment-developer-secured-a.html

 

Morgan approached the popular Austin-based grocery giant about a year ago after the developer purchased a full Midtown block on Elgin Street, between Smith and Brazos streets. Although Whole Foods was interested in the 260-unit apartment site, the land was too small to support a 40,000-square-foot grocery store, Patton said.

 

Morgan didn’t give up, however. Several months ago, the developer acquired a half-block to the north of its Midtown site and worked with the city of Houston and the Midtown Tax Increment Reinvestment Zone to close Rosalie Street running between the two parcels and create one large tract large enough for a Whole Foods. The purchase price for the two parcels was not disclosed.

Edited May 13, 2015 by DrLan34

[H-Town Man]

I think what I didn't like was it just seemed forced. Outside of that area the city tapers off drastically. And while a lot is still planned for the area, it felt more like a city center than a natural urban environment.

 

Going north you hit the Park Cities, which are independent cities zoned for low density. Going east you cross a freeway and densification lags behind. Going west you cross another freeway and hit a huge warehouse district.

[urbanize713]

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/morning_call/2015/05/how-a-houston-apartment-developer-secured-a.html

 

Morgan approached the popular Austin-based grocery giant about a year ago after the developer purchased a full Midtown block on Elgin Street, between Smith and Brazos streets. Although Whole Foods was interested in the 260-unit apartment site, the land was too small to support a 40,000-square-foot grocery store, Patton said.

 

Morgan didn’t give up, however. Several months ago, the developer acquired a half-block to the north of its Midtown site and worked with the city of Houston and the Midtown Tax Increment Reinvestment Zone to close Rosalie Street running between the two parcels and create one large tract large enough for a Whole Foods. The purchase price for the two parcels was not disclosed.

 

For all those that still don't understand this is what irritates posters including myself about the midtown superblock site. If Mr. Campo was as savvy as some believe he is then this is the type of negotiations he should be doing. He has the perfect site for this type of arrangement but did not pursue it. Instead another developer courted a tenant and even put more money on the line to make a very lucrative and attractive development. As someone in the business world I understand the intricacies of a publicly traded company but that should not mean that you become one of the most conservative risk adverse developers in Houston.  

 

As a Houstonian I was happy with the Morgan Group developments but with this latest news I am ecstatic to have a development company with this type of vision. My only hope is that said vision becomes infections. Though it means nothing my kudos to the Morgan Group for fighting and bringing us this great development!

Edited May 13, 2015 by urbanize713

[BigFootsSocks]

...and so it begins. I'm out.

[lockmat]

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/morning_call/2015/05/how-a-houston-apartment-developer-secured-a.html

 

Morgan approached the popular Austin-based grocery giant about a year ago after the developer purchased a full Midtown block on Elgin Street, between Smith and Brazos streets. Although Whole Foods was interested in the 260-unit apartment site, the land was too small to support a 40,000-square-foot grocery store, Patton said.

 

Morgan didn’t give up, however. Several months ago, the developer acquired a half-block to the north of its Midtown site and worked with the city of Houston and the Midtown Tax Increment Reinvestment Zone to close Rosalie Street running between the two parcels and create one large tract large enough for a Whole Foods. The purchase price for the two parcels was not disclosed.

 

Closing Rosalie probably isn't a big deal considering it probably will never get a ton of traffic anyway. But I don't like the precedent it is setting...or following. Whole Foods could have easily been two stories instead of closing a street to make the development one huge block.

 

People are upset the city caters to developers, now they're doing it to grocers too, haha.

[BigFootsSocks]

Closing Rosalie probably isn't a big deal considering it probably will never get a ton of traffic anyway. But I don't like the precedent it is setting...or following. Whole Foods could have easily been two stories instead of closing a street to make the development one huge block.

People are upset the city caters to developers, now they're doing it to grocers too, haha.

It's understandable though, the city is desperately trying to revitalize downtown, and have been successful with the many under-construction residential projects, but there's still no local grocery that can provide the same experience that are plentiful in the suburbs and surrounding area.

[Naviguessor]

I don't think any major grocery store can easily split the main shopping floors between two levels. To me it looks like this one willl be two floors. But, the second floor is probably a dining/lounge mezzanine, or something. If customers are going to be pushing carts, it's got to be one floor, and maybe a parking garage. But searching for items on your list, between two floors, just won't work. At least not here. Yet. Can anyone think of any examples of major grocery stores that cover two floors in this way?