Shell Energy Stadium

[LTAWACS]

As an East End resident, I hope that the city and county stick to their guns and build it downtown. I am good friends with the President of the East End Management District, and she has been organizing citizens to put more pressure on the City and County to close this deal. We don't want to lose this stadium in our area!!

The benefits to the East End are much greater than the Galleria/ Meyerland area. This will help spur developement along the East End rail line and for the whole neighborhood. Plus, the last thing that the Galleria needs is another major traffic burden during rush hour.

How does one "join" the East End Management District. How does one get involved?

[KinkaidAlum]

713 to 214 is just upset because of the stadium situation in this state.

BASEBALL

Houston Astros play downtown

Texas Rangers play by the freeway in Arlington

BASKETBALL

Houston Rockets play downtown

Dallas Mavericks play close to downtown

FOOTBALL

Houston Texans play inside the Loop just South of the Med Center

Dallas Cowboys play near a freeway in Arlington

SOCCER

Houston Dynamo currently play on the campus of UH and will likely land in either downtown or the Galleria area.

Dallas Whatver Their Name Is (Burn?) play in South Oklahoma (Frisco)

[samagon]

The management district (and the civic associations who spread their message) need to stop

the fear mongering. By all means, encourage citizens to support the stadium. But I will not support an

organization that uses rumor, lies and scare tactics (crime! economic blight! jails!!!) to push their agenda. It's too bad, because as a white, professional, property owning new resident of the east end, I know they want me on board with the new world order. But you don't get my support by insulting my intelligence with shrill, amatuer propaganda and bad logic. (Claiming that the the Dynamo stadium will cost 'peanuts' compared to Reliant, as the ECA 'action alert' stated, does nothing to advance the argument that the new deal is good one. In fact all that did was

remind me how much greedy NFL owner have ruined pro football for me-- not a smart thing when trying to get me to support a deal for

another sports team owner. ) FWIW, my opposition is philosophical in that I oppose any public funding for privately

owned stadia--not land, not money, not anything. But that ship has sailed, and since the city already commiteed to the deal, just build the thing already. I do agree that the east end location is best.

http://www.chron.com...ro/6593131.html

Using TIRZ tax money and bond proceeds, the city and county would pay $20 million for the infrastructure improvements around a new soccer stadium for the Houston Dynamo that also could be used by Texas Southern University. The stadium itself, which would be jointly owned by the city and county, would be built by the Dynamo with $60 million in private funds.

Just thought you'd like to know that bit of info!

I'm a huge soccer fan, and before I knew that myself, I was on the fence too, but I just don't see how this is a bad deal for anyone.

Edited February 11, 2010 by samagon

[musicman]

sylvia garcia was just on 13 and said that a jail on the east side site is not a consideration.

[LTAWACS]

713 to 214 is just upset because of the stadium situation in this state.

BASEBALL

Houston Astros play downtown

Texas Rangers play by the freeway in Arlington

BASKETBALL

Houston Rockets play downtown

Dallas Mavericks play close to downtown

FOOTBALL

Houston Texans play inside the Loop just South of the Med Center

Dallas Cowboys play near a freeway in Arlington

SOCCER

Houston Dynamo currently play on the campus of UH and will likely land in either downtown or the Galleria area.

Dallas Whatver Their Name Is (Burn?) play in South Oklahoma (Frisco)

Lulz

[Stan Collins]

I appreciate your post, and it caused me to reconsider, and really look at the issue. On attendance - I stand corrected, and thank you:

Attendances

• Record home attendance: 70,550 v Los Angeles Galaxy at Reliant Stadium^[3], 2006 Major League Soccer season, 9 August 2006
• Record home attendance at Robertson Stadium: 30,972 v Kansas City Wizards, 2007 MLS Cup Playoffs, 10 November 2007
• Record away attendance: 30,000 v Club de Futbol Pachuca at Estadio Hidalgo, 2007 CONCACAF Champions Cup, 5 April 2007
• Record League attendance at a neutral site: 39,859 v New England Revolution at RFK Stadium, 2007 MLS Cup, 18 November 2007

My false supposition is probably rooted in my strong dislike of the conduct at the games ( Lived in Europe ). Violence seems to be the thread that attracts. I've been in sports all of my life in several countries, and soccer I steer clear of. I know there are fans, and players who are out of control in any competitive sport, however soccer, worldwide needs some heavy policing. I will honor what the voters will. I do admit the deal they are proposing has solid business sense.

• 
  

In-game violence is almost completely a thing of the past in Western European countries. Better policing, stadium architecture, limits on alcohol, and more expensive tickets have driven it away. Nowadays what's left of the hooligan element in Western Europe gets in fights outside the stadiums. They have to pre-arrange these fights on some street corner, the game itself is almost unconnected. But you go to a game today in the richer countries of Europe (let alone the US), you'd be surprised how family-friendly the atmosphere is.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Stan Collins

[Hanuman]

The management district (and the civic associations who spread their message) need to stop

the fear mongering. By all means, encourage citizens to support the stadium. But I will not support an

organization that uses rumor, lies and scare tactics (crime! economic blight! jails!!!) to push their agenda. It's too bad, because as a white, professional, property owning new resident of the east end, I know they want me on board with the new world order. But you don't get my support by insulting my intelligence with shrill, amatuer propaganda and bad logic. (Claiming that the the Dynamo stadium will cost 'peanuts' compared to Reliant, as the ECA 'action alert' stated, does nothing to advance the argument that the new deal is good one. In fact all that did was

remind me how much greedy NFL owner have ruined pro football for me-- not a smart thing when trying to get me to support a deal for

another sports team owner. ) FWIW, my opposition is philosophical in that I oppose any public funding for privately

owned stadia--not land, not money, not anything. But that ship has sailed, and since the city already commiteed to the deal, just build the thing already. I do agree that the east end location is best.

Yo! Crunch! You're my kind of gal - well said, and like a Martini - straight-up!

[Hanuman]

In-game violence is almost completely a thing of the past in Western European countries. Better policing, stadium architecture, limits on alcohol, and more expensive tickets have driven it away. Nowadays what's left of the hooligan element in Western Europe gets in fights outside the stadiums. They have to pre-arrange these fights on some street corner, the game itself is almost unconnected. But you go to a game today in the richer countries of Europe (let alone the US), you'd be surprised how family-friendly the atmosphere is.

Stan, Not sure where you're getting your info, but the violence is heating up in soccer stadiums across the World!

Small example:

LONDON (AP) -- With only three weeks before the World Cup, fears of hooliganism have increased following a weekend of soccer violence in Italy, the Netherlands and England.

The worst of the trouble was at Bergamo, Italy, where fans of home team Atalanta forced a 12-minute suspension of a first division game Sunday by breaking a wall in the stands and throwing objects onto the field.

Police intervened to control the unruly spectators and fired tear gas into the stands.

In London, after Arsenal's 2-0 win Saturday over Newcastle in The Football Association Cup final, drunken Gunners fans threw bottles at police, set fire to a car and trashed shop windows. Thirty-eight were arrested.

Sunday's Amstel Cup final in Rotterdam's De Kuip Stadium started three hours early because of fears of crowd trouble. Police made 70 arrests after fighting broke out, including between rival fans who bought tickets for the same section.

In Argentina, violence caused a judge to indefinitely suspend play in the pro soccer leagues. Two people were shot a half hour before the first-division match between Independiente and River Plate, and scuffles and rock-throwing broke out between fans of Estudiantes and coaches and fans of Lanus. The brawling lasted 90 minutes despite the presence of more than 320 police officers

I don't think there is a ground-swell of interest in this game in Texas period. Let's take a vote, to be fair - Everyone who really wants soccer, and is going to attend, or watch the games, and be a fan, please tell me I'm wrong.

I believe that Eado could be developed to greater value without this stadium deal. There is a better idea out there.

[N Judah]

I don't think there is a ground-swell of interest in this game in Texas period.

Did you just move here? Do you follow sports in general?

Edited February 12, 2010 by N Judah

[little frau]

sylvia garcia was just on 13 and said that a jail on the east side site is not a consideration.

The Miya Shay video is now on the Channel 13 website. Sounds like County Judge Ed Emmett is ready to get things done for a stadium. From what Parker had said several days ago, the city has done their part, we're just waiting for the county to ante up.

I find it interesting that El Franco Lee has been silent during all this.

[TheNiche]

The management district (and the civic associations who spread their message) need to stop

the fear mongering. By all means, encourage citizens to support the stadium. But I will not support an

organization that uses rumor, lies and scare tactics (crime! economic blight! jails!!!) to push their agenda. It's too bad, because as a white, professional, property owning new resident of the east end, I know they want me on board with the new world order. But you don't get my support by insulting my intelligence with shrill, amatuer propaganda and bad logic. (Claiming that the the Dynamo stadium will cost 'peanuts' compared to Reliant, as the ECA 'action alert' stated, does nothing to advance the argument that the new deal is good one. In fact all that did was

remind me how much greedy NFL owner have ruined pro football for me-- not a smart thing when trying to get me to support a deal for

another sports team owner. ) FWIW, my opposition is philosophical in that I oppose any public funding for privately

owned stadia--not land, not money, not anything. But that ship has sailed, and since the city already commiteed to the deal, just build the thing already. I do agree that the east end location is best.

I agree with you that municipalities and counties shouldn't be compelled to outbid one another for the privilege of having a stadium built there...but that's just the way it is. If we won't pay, some other city most assuredly will. Professional sports leagues have it all figured out that their presence is a valuable commodity. And it is. Let's be honest, the Dynamo are a relative bargain for the subsidy that they're demanding. We should pay it.

We should also be lobbying our representatives in Congress to restrict corporate welfare paid out by states and municipalities (whether to lure a new distribution center or a new sports team)...and to crack down on sports leagues when it becomes apparent that a monopolistic franchiser/franchisee business model is really being run much more like a cartel.

There is a better idea out there.

Enlighten me.

[Hanuman]

Did you just move here? Do you follow sports in general?

N, Thanks for asking. I became an American Citizen ( The legal way ) 25 years ago. I brought my family here, as I feel this is the very best civilization in World history. I studied, and deeply admire all the founders.

As I have stated in this thread I participated in professional sports ( Mainly track & field events ) all over the World as a young man, and my children are active currently.

Let me state my observations another way: I don't see any area jumping up, and begging the soccer franchise to come their way. I see all the politicians avoiding this like the plague. Which is strange to me, because the business model is something I cannot deny, has merit, and promise. If no one is courting you, then you must be rejected. I have stated many times, that if the voters approve the soccer stadium, and it's location, etc. - then go for it, and I'll be happy. I just don't see the olive branches extended for the soccer proponents.

I want to merely discuss, and project opinions, and observations. I respect, and appreciate your views.

[RedScare]

Stan, Not sure where you're getting your info, but the violence is heating up in soccer stadiums across the World!

Small example:

LONDON (AP) -- With only three weeks before the World Cup, fears of hooliganism have increased following a weekend of soccer violence in Italy, the Netherlands and England.

The worst of the trouble was at Bergamo, Italy, where fans of home team Atalanta forced a 12-minute suspension of a first division game Sunday by breaking a wall in the stands and throwing objects onto the field.

Police intervened to control the unruly spectators and fired tear gas into the stands.

In London, after Arsenal's 2-0 win Saturday over Newcastle in The Football Association Cup final, drunken Gunners fans threw bottles at police, set fire to a car and trashed shop windows. Thirty-eight were arrested.

Sunday's Amstel Cup final in Rotterdam's De Kuip Stadium started three hours early because of fears of crowd trouble. Police made 70 arrests after fighting broke out, including between rival fans who bought tickets for the same section.

In Argentina, violence caused a judge to indefinitely suspend play in the pro soccer leagues. Two people were shot a half hour before the first-division match between Independiente and River Plate, and scuffles and rock-throwing broke out between fans of Estudiantes and coaches and fans of Lanus. The brawling lasted 90 minutes despite the presence of more than 320 police officers

I don't think there is a ground-swell of interest in this game in Texas period. Let's take a vote, to be fair - Everyone who really wants soccer, and is going to attend, or watch the games, and be a fan, please tell me I'm wrong.

I believe that Eado could be developed to greater value without this stadium deal. There is a better idea out there.

WHY are you posting articles written IN 1998 to bolster your argument!

Your arguments against this stadium have generally been contradictory and unsupported by facts. However, when you post 12 YEAR OLD stories in an effort to fake people out, I have to forcefully call BS.

[N Judah]

N, Thanks for asking. I became an American Citizen ( The legal way ) 25 years ago. I brought my family here, as I feel this is the very best civilization in World history. I studied, and deeply admire all the founders.

No...I meant to ask: did you just move to Texas? I would be surprised if a longtime resident of Texas was unaware of soccer's popularity in the state. It is huge at the participation level, and now it is gaining ground at the spectator level.

Let me state my observations another way: I don't see any area jumping up, and begging the soccer franchise to come their way. I see all the politicians avoiding this like the plague. Which is strange to me, because the business model is something I cannot deny, has merit, and promise. If no one is courting you, then you must be rejected.

Houston jumped up and invited the Dynamo to move here, promising a new stadium which has yet to materialize. I don't think we will vote on it, since I don't think we usually vote on incentives like these. If the city/county cannot make good on the stadium I am sure the Dynamo could easily be wooed by another city, as MLS has many cities clamoring to get a team.

Edited February 12, 2010 by N Judah

[Hanuman]

WHY are you posting articles written IN 1998 to bolster your argument!

Your arguments against this stadium have generally been contradictory and unsupported by facts. However, when you post 12 YEAR OLD stories in an effort to fake people out, I have to forcefully call BS.

Are you denying that soccer promotes violence World-wide? Have you been to the games Worldwide, as I have? The date on the article is not important, as the evidence it reveals is timeless,and still relevant. Red, you know that the point of my article was that soccer is not widely appreciated in the U.S., is notorious for violence, and I don't see any part of Houston jumping forward and yelling, " We have to have the Dynamo here"!!!

Please note my contradictory statements: ___________________________________________________________?

[TheNiche]

Are you denying that soccer promotes violence World-wide? Have you been to the games Worldwide, as I have? The date on the article is not important, as the evidence it reveals is timeless,and still relevant. Red, you know that the point of my article was that soccer is not widely appreciated in the U.S., is notorious for violence, and I don't see any part of Houston jumping forward and yelling, " We have to have the Dynamo here"!!!

Please note my contradictory statements: ___________________________________________________________?

If soccer promotes violence the world over and you go to soccer games the world over, then is that an admission on your part that you promote violence? I'm not inclined to take someone seriously that promotes violence.

[N Judah]

Could be worse -- at least it's not cricket!

http://news.scotsman.com/world/Actor39s-cricket-view-sparks-riot.6062034.jp

[crunchtastic]

http://www.chron.com...ro/6593131.html

Just thought you'd like to know that bit of info!

I'm a huge soccer fan, and before I knew that myself, I was on the fence too, but I just don't see how this is a bad deal for anyone.

A TIRZ and donated land is public funding. It may not be direct out of my pocket, but it's still public land, and future public tax revenue. Trust me, I've read every story on this issue, long before there was a Dynamo. Like I said--it's a basic philosophical position. I don't care if it's soccer, or my beloved Astros or San Antonio Spurs. I love sports, but they need to pay their own goddamned way. Clearly this deal is nearly done, so I'm standing down and will support it. I live over here, so I sure hope all you fanboys put your money where your mouth is.

[N Judah]

LoL. Maybe one day people can get this worked up about corporate incentives. I know there was never this kind of outrage about, say, the 100% cost overruns on the Katy Freeway.

Edited February 12, 2010 by N Judah

[RedScare]

Red, you know that the point of my article was that soccer is not widely appreciated in the U.S.,

Oh, so that's why you posted a 12 year old article about violence in Bergamo, Italy...to demonstrate how widely accepted it is in the States. Makes sense to me.

Here's an idea. Post an article about soccer violence in the states. Better yet, how about violence in the NBA.

[crunchtastic]

LoL. Maybe one day people can get this worked up about corporate incentives. I know there was never this kind of outrage about, say, the 100% cost overruns on the Katy Freeway.

heh, that's only because I wasn't living here at the time. I was too busy being pissed about the Zachary contracts in SA.

[musicman]

I know there was never this kind of outrage about, say, the 100% cost overruns on the Katy Freeway.

pre or post toll road?

[JJVilla]

The management district (and the civic associations who spread their message) need to stop

the fear mongering. By all means, encourage citizens to support the stadium.

I agree with this sentiment and believe it can stand on it's own merit. Our group's support (fan alliance not living in East End) has focused on the positive despite all negaitive out there now and favorabel aspects/benefit for the area compared to other areas for both parties invloved. In other words putting the stadium in other proposed site or suburbs won't offer much incremental benefit to the team, area in question and TSU (which also stands to benefit from the East End location) plus synergy with the light rail lines.

Also, the Ch 13 report (video on their website) about quotes from this morning's State of County was encouraging.

Edited February 12, 2010 by JJVilla

[skwatra]

Are you denying that soccer promotes violence World-wide? Have you been to the games Worldwide, as I have? The date on the article is not important, as the evidence it reveals is timeless,and still relevant. Red, you know that the point of my article was that soccer is not widely appreciated in the U.S., is notorious for violence, and I don't see any part of Houston jumping forward and yelling, " We have to have the Dynamo here"!!!

Please note my contradictory statements: ___________________________________________________________?

Soccer in no way Promotes violence. do you realize the implication of that statement? that the sport itself promotes violence? if you want to discuss the nature of the sport, maybe you could have a good argument with ice hockey or american football or rugby.

i have been to many matches world wide, including Brasil and Europe. In Ireland, I went to the biggest rivalry match in Belfast on Boxing day, picked a side and cheered along. It felt like UT-A&M the day after thanksgiving, a split stadium with high spirits.

I've proudly worn my Dynamo jersey at away games in Chicago, NY (well New Jersey), LA, San Jose, Denver, Dallas, and DC. Never had a problem, just some taunting as expected. Only case where i got worried is when some guy started being belligerent and kept calling me a traffic cone, then he came up to me and told me he went to UH, loved Houston, but left before the Dynamo showed up so he was a Fire fan. He invited me to have beers after the game which i accepted.

So Hanuman, have you been to a Dynamo game? Come out to the Rob this April before making your final conclusions. We have a loud supporter section that some may think is 'extreme' from a US standpoint, but it gets the whole crowd singing and defines home field advantage. I really don't see it much different from NCAA Football.

You are going to find examples of violence at soccer games. You'll also find it in basketball, football, hockey, baseball, etc. You get a bunch of guys that are passionate about their team, add alcohol, and rival fans, there will be problems. In any sport.

Check out the list to get a representation of examples over the last two years:

list of violent spectator incidents in sports

2 cricket

2 baseball

2 football

3 soccer

2 basketball

1 hockey

yes, this is wiki and by no means a complete list. but my point is, violence happens in all sports.

an average dynamo game involves a subset of fans getting there early to start tailgating. a large number of families coming in an hour early to check out the booths, play games with their kids, etc. after the game a few people linger for a bit, but most head home or to local bars.

Edited February 12, 2010 by skwatra

[LTAWACS]

We should just build the thing already!

[TheNiche]

We should just build the thing already!

You go ahead without me. Have fun.

[AtticaFlinch]

You go ahead without me. Have fun.

I've got a couple shovels and a bag of plaster mix. Me and LTAWACS are all over this. You can sit this one out.

[LTAWACS]

I've got a couple shovels and a bag of plaster mix. Me and LTAWACS are all over this. You can sit this one out.

Awesome. I'll bring an extra bottle of Jack.

Someone just told me that if they start to build this thing, the owner of Toyota Center is going to sue the city... something about having too many new venues close to it. Apparently, there's a clause in their contract with the city that says there can be no other sports venue withing xyz distance of Toyota Center or something other... I told them I wasnt aware of such a thing... ugh.

[TheNiche]

Awesome. I'll bring an extra bottle of Jack.

Someone just told me that if they start to build this thing, the owner of Toyota Center is going to sue the city... something about having too many new venues close to it. Apparently, there's a clause in their contract with the city that says there can be no other sports venue withing xyz distance of Toyota Center or something other... I told them I wasnt aware of such a thing... ugh.

Toyota Center is owned by the Harris County-Houston Sports Authority, which is a political subdivision of the State, the County, and the City. It wouldn't make much sense that they'd sue the City or that they'd sue the City and not the County.

[RedScare]

Semantics, perhaps. Clutch City Sports and Entertainment (Lessee) would sue the Harris County-Houston Sports Authority (Lessor) for breach of contract, assuming that there is in fact a clause in the lease that prohibits another venue to be built by the HCHSA that close to Toyota Center. I seem to recall that there was such a clause. Of course, the issue could be settled by negotiation of a suitable benefit to Clutch City, just as negotiations with Drayton McLane for use of his parking lots are contemplated.

EDIT: Actually, not so much semantics as Awacs completely mangled his terms.

Edited February 13, 2010 by RedScare