Shell Energy Stadium

[N Judah]

I think the East End location makes a lot more sense.

Edited January 30, 2010 by N Judah

[Hanuman]

I think the East End location makes a lot more sense.

What is the advantage of the East end? Is the folly really just politicians in a power war, or is the location critical for other reasons? The business end sounds really good. Just curious to get the insider opinion.

[citizen4rmptown]

What is the advantage of the East end? Is the folly really just politicians in a power war, or is the location critical for other reasons? The business end sounds really good. Just curious to get the insider opinion.

Im not the insider with the opinion, but for one thing what good is this stadium going to do in Bellaire, where its clearly not wanted? Is it going to revitalize the area there?

Here it is centralized, and will help fill in some good area, that currently is full of some really ugly buildings. It will help draw more people to Downtown. Where else if not here?

Will the westpark tract allow people to spend the day in the area, or will it be a park your car, watch the game, and leave? The stadium wont even be inside the loop!

It makes sense here, it is needed here. Having it in the other proposed location will just make it a pretty thing to look at from the freeway.

[little frau]

I think the East End location makes a lot more sense.

I believe Ms. Garcia and Mr. E.F. Lee have different ideas for the East End property. Heard something today about a new jail location.

[N Judah]

I believe Ms. Garcia and Mr. E.F. Lee have different ideas for the East End property. Heard something today about a new jail location.

That one sentence at the end of today's Glenn Davis's article, right? I wouldn't say that's based in reality.

Edited January 31, 2010 by N Judah

[N Judah]

I'm surprised people can't figure out why being near the confluence of 2 LRT lines, on infrastructure already built to handle stadia, would be considered a good thing. I think the real question is: why Bellaire? Of the several people who have suddenly appeared out of nowhere to denigrate the East End location, none have actually explained why the Galleria would be a good place for a team whose supporters consist mostly of Spanish-speaking tailgaters.

Edited January 31, 2010 by N Judah

[samagon]

I appreciate your post, and it caused me to reconsider, and really look at the issue. On attendance - I stand corrected, and thank you:

Attendances

• Record home attendance: 70,550 v Los Angeles Galaxy at Reliant Stadium^[3], 2006 Major League Soccer season, 9 August 2006
• Record home attendance at Robertson Stadium: 30,972 v Kansas City Wizards, 2007 MLS Cup Playoffs, 10 November 2007
• Record away attendance: 30,000 v Club de Futbol Pachuca at Estadio Hidalgo, 2007 CONCACAF Champions Cup, 5 April 2007
• Record League attendance at a neutral site: 39,859 v New England Revolution at RFK Stadium, 2007 MLS Cup, 18 November 2007

My false supposition is probably rooted in my strong dislike of the conduct at the games ( Lived in Europe ). Violence seems to be the thread that attracts. I've been in sports all of my life in several countries, and soccer I steer clear of. I know there are fans, and players who are out of control in any competitive sport, however soccer, worldwide needs some heavy policing. I will honor what the voters will. I do admit the deal they are proposing has solid business sense.

Violent fans are not singular to Soccer.

I've never been to philidelphia to watch a football game, or oakland, but then I don't really want to go. The former has a police station in the stadium for rowdy fans.

I also remember back to the basketball brawl between fans and players. doesn't happen often. but then there have been some riots revolving around basketball.

baseball, there seems to be at least 2 or 3 brawls a year in baseball. always the players, and the fans just cheer and drink more beer. I've been to plenty of games in different parts of the country, wearing astros gear and aside from some rabble rousing, it's always a good time.

Anyway, violence in sports is reigned in with policing, just as with anything.

[TheNiche]

Im not the insider with the opinion, but for one thing what good is this stadium going to do in Bellaire, where its clearly not wanted? Is it going to revitalize the area there?

Here it is centralized, and will help fill in some good area, that currently is full of some really ugly buildings. It will help draw more people to Downtown. Where else if not here?

Will the westpark tract allow people to spend the day in the area, or will it be a park your car, watch the game, and leave? The stadium wont even be inside the loop!

It makes sense here, it is needed here. Having it in the other proposed location will just make it a pretty thing to look at from the freeway.

To be clear, the new site is not in Bellaire. It is in the City of Houston and is only close to Bellaire. And if the Midway Cos. could pull off a private-sector coup along the lines of their master plan, it would end up saving both the City and the County tens of millions of dollars. In my mind, that's the biggest advantage of this site. The area right around there is also kind of ugly, so this development (if successful) could help bridge the vast socioeconomic divide between the Galleria area and Gulfton.

Soccer stadia clearly don't need to be in a centralized location to make sense, as evidenced by Dallas' team...on the other hand, the new site is closer to the true population centroid of Houston, which is near the I-10/610 interchange.

Having said all this, I don't think that the Midway Cos. has a serious proposal. It's merely a distraction from the only workable plan, which is to build the stadium with public-sector assistance.

[N Judah]

Edit (since it does not let me edit that post anymore): Actually if "inmate processing facility" is what they call jails now then yes Annise Parker said that. But I am not sure why they would put another jail right there in downtown by GRB, MMP, Toyota, and a new light rail line.

Also does anybody have a link to this master plan?

Edited January 31, 2010 by N Judah

[little frau]

That one sentence at the end of today's Glenn Davis's article, right? I wouldn't say that's based in reality.

Didn't read any Davis article. I got it from someone close to the East End Chamber.

[N Judah]

Didn't read any Davis article. I got it from someone close to the East End Chamber.

Oh, OK. I was only wondering since you didn't mention a cite or a source. Anyway, another "inmate processing facility" would surely kill the ambience. I'm intrigued that all of this began once Annise Parker was elected.

[TheNiche]

Didn't read any Davis article. I got it from someone close to the East End Chamber.

I get the sense that local interest are just getting panicky about the stadium deal. An inmate processing facility so far removed from the courthouse complex and jails seems kind of, um...stupid.

[citizen4rmptown]

To be clear, the new site is not in Bellaire. It is in the City of Houston and is only close to Bellaire. And if the Midway Cos. could pull off a private-sector coup along the lines of their master plan, it would end up saving both the City and the County tens of millions of dollars. In my mind, that's the biggest advantage of this site. The area right around there is also kind of ugly, so this development (if successful) could help bridge the vast socioeconomic divide between the Galleria area and Gulfton.

Soccer stadia clearly don't need to be in a centralized location to make sense, as evidenced by Dallas' team...on the other hand, the new site is closer to the true population centroid of Houston, which is near the I-10/610 interchange.

Having said all this, I don't think that the Midway Cos. has a serious proposal. It's merely a distraction from the only workable plan, which is to build the stadium with public-sector assistance.

Technically having it in Arlington is better, since its closer to the middle of the Metroplex, why have it on one end of the MSA, when you can have it between Dallas and Ft. Worth.

[TheNiche]

Technically having it in Arlington is better, since its closer to the middle of the Metroplex, why have it on one end of the MSA, when you can have it between Dallas and Ft. Worth.

Pizza Hut Park is in Frisco.

EDIT: And that was post #11,000. I'm a brown stripey skyscraper now instead of the art deco skyscraper. I like it.

Edited January 31, 2010 by TheNiche

[LTAWACS]

I smell riots in the air if they build this jail/inmate facility in the east end.

[citizen4rmptown]

Pizza Hut Park is in Frisco.

EDIT: And that was post #11,000. I'm a brown stripey skyscraper now instead of the art deco skyscraper. I like it.

I stand corrected, I forgot that DFW stadia is all over the place.....

[JJVilla]

Didn't read any Davis article. I got it from someone close to the East End Chamber.

My friend who also lives in East End sent me a message over the weekend about this...they could care less about soccer or Dynamo but a prison would not be best for the type of development they're aiming for. This would be lose-lose for many people and a win for few.

[samagon]

I get the sense that local interest are just getting panicky about the stadium deal. An inmate processing facility so far removed from the courthouse complex and jails seems kind of, um...stupid.

Not to mention that the area is very residential now, and if allowed to, will only become more residential as time moves forward.

[CHiPs]

I'm losing hope that the soccer stadium will not get built at all. But, a jail facility definitely is not feasible and could gain strong opposition from 'Eado' and Eastwood residents.

[LTAWACS]

No jails in Eado. NONE.

[Hanuman]

My friend who also lives in East End sent me a message over the weekend about this...they could care less about soccer or Dynamo but a prison would not be best for the type of development they're aiming for. This would be lose-lose for many people and a win for few.

I agree with your friends. I believe the Dynamo would be better placed in Pearland, and the jail moved closer to the Harris County Jail Complex.

[little frau]

The Eastwood Civic Assn. along with the two Super Neighborhoods that serve our area sent a mass email to residents asking that we make our wishes known to all the city and county officials. The aim is to convince the powers that we prefer the stadium over the jail.

The interesting part is, according to the email, that Ms. Garcia said she was unaware that residents actually supported the stadium. Additionally, Ms. Garcia was UNAWARE of any plans for a jail or inmate processing facility "at least in terms of a county facility". Garcia also said the City had not contacted the County about the stadium since the new administration took office.

[LTAWACS]

Who is this "Mrs. Garcia"?

[TheNiche]

The Eastwood Civic Assn. along with the two Super Neighborhoods that serve our area sent a mass email to residents asking that we make our wishes known to all the city and county officials. The aim is to convince the powers that we prefer the stadium over the jail.

The interesting part is, according to the email, that Ms. Garcia said she was unaware that residents actually supported the stadium. Additionally, Ms. Garcia was UNAWARE of any plans for a jail or inmate processing facility "at least in terms of a county facility". Garcia also said the City had not contacted the County about the stadium since the new administration took office.

Where did all of these rumors about a new jail facility come from? It's not the first time I've heard them, but placing a jail facility so far from the courthouse complex just seems...dumb.

And I believe her when Garcia says that she hasn't seen any evidence that the Eastwood Civic Assn. or the Super Neighborhoods support the stadium, but it sounds like somebody is stoking rumors of a jail just to freak these people out so that they'll actively embrace the Dynamo. I know it's a conspiracy theory, but this stuff just doesn't add up.

[crunchtastic]

Where did all of these rumors about a new jail facility come from? It's not the first time I've heard them, but placing a jail facility so far from the courthouse complex just seems...dumb.

And I believe her when Garcia says that she hasn't seen any evidence that the Eastwood Civic Assn. or the Super Neighborhoods support the stadium, but it sounds like somebody is stoking rumors of a jail just to freak these people out so that they'll actively embrace the Dynamo. I know it's a conspiracy theory, but this stuff just doesn't add up.

I have the same question. I've heard rumors and internet noise, amd now the alarmist email, but no source. The idea of a jail

removed from the court complex, and within walking distance of two sports facilities, the convention center, and Discovery

Green is seems a little difficult to believe, especially when it only seems to come up in connection with the Dynamo stadium.

[crunchtastic]

having gone back an re-read the email and the Chron story it linked, there was a quote from the mayor that the city was looking at sites (multiple) for a potential new jail or crime lab. It was vague at best.

I would actively oppose a jail on the site, but I will not support the stadium based on a vague threat that something else might get built instead.

[RedScare]

having gone back an re-read the email and the Chron story it linked, there was a quote from the mayor that the city was looking at sites (multiple) for a potential new jail or crime lab. It was vague at best.

I would actively oppose a jail on the site, but I will not support the stadium based on a vague threat that something else might get built instead.

It was definitely a quote from Parker, but I attributed it to 'New Mayor Syndrome', an ill-thought comment that has no basis in reality. There will NOT be a new jail built or even considered for that site. The jail that is needed is a book-in facility. You cannot build a book-in facility away from the main jail, as moving the inmates from the book-in facility to the main jails would require booking the inmates OUT of the facility and booking them back IN at the main jail. It would not solve the problem. Besides, the county already has space for the facility next to the Baker Street Jail. The problem is that they do not have the money to build it.

Feel free to tell your worried neighbors that it will not and cannot happen. Now a crime lab, on the other hand, could be built on that property, though I'd like to see it near the new property room.

EDIT: For those who are unaware what a book-in facility is, it is the place where newly arrived prisoners are identified, fingerprinted and photographed. They run their criminal history and identify whether they are citizens, and whether they are wanted in other jurisdictions. Currently, HPD uses the old jail on Reisner Street for Houston prisoners. Then, they are booked out and transported to Harris County Jail, where the process is repeated , since they are now a County prisoner. The new jail is intended to eliminate this double book-in. A book-in facility a mile away from the jail will not eliminate the problem at all.

Edited February 8, 2010 by RedScare

[RustyB]

I have the same question. I've heard rumors and internet noise, amd now the alarmist email, but no source. The idea of a jail

removed from the court complex, and within walking distance of two sports facilities, the convention center, and Discovery

Green is seems a little difficult to believe, especially when it only seems to come up in connection with the Dynamo stadium.

It does seem a little strange...I'd almost believe that it's just a rumor started by people in EaDo who are trying to scare the other few residents into WANTING the Dynamo stadium to be built here in EaDo. But I guess an inmate processing facility is not something we'd hear too much about until construction starts...we'd just wake up and it'd be there one morning. EaDo has enough problematic places that need to be dealt with...a "jail" doesn't need to be added to the list.

But I could see the logic...as close as EaDo is to places like Discovery Green, the area is somewhat cut off from Downtown because of the GRB...Chinatown is pretty much dead, for example. But I think this creates an opportunity for EaDo to become a nice residential/mixed use area. That's why I'm personally VERY much against the stadium being built in EaDo. I'm going to fight it all the way.

But many of my friends here think it will be a magic bullet that will inject a huge amount of economic prosperity into the area over night. That could be true, but I think it's ignorant. And if they build it here, I pray that I'm proved wrong. Funny, because these are the same people trying to get Club Next booted out of the neighborhood. I just don't get it??? Boot out Club Next, and bring in a Soccer stadium???? Maybe we can have our cake and eat it too...keep Club Next, build a Soccer stadium, AND build an Inmate Processing Facility next door...people will be flocking to the area to live and spend their money!!!

Oh yeah, and for the person who asked "who is Garcia" and for those wondering about the/an "alarmist email"...Sylvia Garcia is the Precint 2 County Commissioner, and according to an attorney working in the interest of getting the stadium built in EaDo, Sylvia was completely unaware that residents of EaDo actually WANTED the stadium built here. But as far as I know (and I know very little) this attorney may be the person who started the rumor of a "jail" being built here IF the stadium isn't built...sounds like complete BS to me. Stadium OR jail???

FYI, to whom it may concern (from an "alarmist email"):

http://www.co.harris.tx.us/agenda/2010/02-09-10ag.pdf

"Notice is hereby given that a meeting of the Commissioners Court of Harris County,

Texas, will be held on Tuesday, February 9, 2010 at 10:00 a.m. in the Courtroom of the

Commissioners Court of Harris County, Texas, on the ninth floor of the Harris County

Administration Building, 1001 Preston Avenue, Houston, Texas, for the purpose of considering

and taking action on matters brought before the Court."

To request an appearence before the court: http://www.co.harris.tx.us/agenda/requestForm/index.asp

I personally think EaDo is going to just fine on its own, without any of this garbage. For example, the owner of the Kim Hung grocery marketwants to spend 1 Million bucks to re-model his store, and says the stadium will make this possible. I think he'll do just fine without it...I see more and more people going there every day...and he's been making changes lately to make it nicer. He's a great guy, and I want him to be successful. He's brought back Budweiser in 18-packs...so maybe I can finance his re-model personally after all?

I think things are moving FORWARD in EaDo finally, not backwards, and we don't need a soccer stadium to make it happen overnight.

Not in my backyard. From what I hear, the Dynamo's have it pretty good where they're at. I think they're just jealous they don't have their own MMP, Reliant, or Toyota Center. Sorry, but the truth is, although it's impressive to hear that pro soccer has 17,000 fans at their games and all of these tailgaters that might buy a 99 cent bag of ice at the gas station before the game, I don't personally know a single person in the United States that's actually watched a pro soccer game in person or on TV...let alone anyone that wants to live or do business next to a soccer stadium. My high school football stadium in Texas City held over 10,000 people. Maybe they should get their own stadium next to downtown Houston, and it will bring an economic boom to the area due to snowcone sales?

Sorry...too much coffee this morning.

Edited February 8, 2010 by RustyB

[TheNiche]

FWIW, I think that the NIMBYs are ignoring the prospect of increased neighborhood visibility and are looking a gift horse in the mouth. There are basically two problems with EaDo. One is that the many overgrown and littered vacant lots make it appear grungy and a little desolate. Another is that it's not on the way in between very many places (the way Midtown is), so relatively few people know that it exists or are familiar enough with it to feel comfortable and safe there.

A stadium would consume some of these vacant lots, the Dynamo would exert pressure on the City to keep the area clean, and most importantly, the public would finally get to lay eyes on this forgotten neighborhood.

Visibility is a huge deal. That's how apartment complexes such as Sawyer Heights Lofts are able to lease up so quickly is that they are their own billboard; it doesn't matter that 95% of the population is put off by the views and sounds of freeways if fifty times the number of individual householders are aware of its existence than would otherwise have been the case.

And just so you're aware, low traffic count, low visibility, and the lack of public familiarity with access to this neighborhood are directly responsible for the slow lease-up rates experienced by apartment complexes in EaDo. If you intend to make mixed-use pedestrian-friendly developments viable in the future, people have to become more familiar with the area. And entertainment venues (including bars and stadia) are going to have to be an inherent part of that process.

[RedScare]

It does seem a little strange...I'd almost believe that it's just a rumor started by people in EaDo who are trying to scare the other few residents into WANTING the Dynamo stadium to be built here in EaDo. But I guess an inmate processing facility is not something we'd hear too much about until construction starts...we'd just wake up and it'd be there one morning. EaDo has enough problematic places that need to be dealt with...a "jail" doesn't need to be added to the list.

You know, if you had simply read the 2 posts before yours, you MIGHT have found the source of the rumor. Here, let me spell it out for you. First, let's link to the Chronicle article on the possible new location for the stadium...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/soc/6837680.html

Now, let's open the article to see if there are any quotes from Mayor Parker. Ahh, here it is...

Mayor Annise Parker said she has been briefed on the plan.

“It is a completely privately financed alternative, which I'm glad to see on the table,” she said. “This is an excellent option that takes the city taxpayers largely or completely out of the loop on this.”

Parker noted that the city would consider contributing infrastructure work or tax abatements to the Midway development, just as it would any other large project.

Should the Dynamo end up near the Galleria, the city will consider many options for the use of its 12 acres downtown.

“The public is aware that we're looking at potential sites for an independent crime lab operation. We're looking for potential sites for a joint city-county (inmate) processing facility,” Parker said.

WHOA! Mystery solved! The source of the rumor is a quote in the city's largest newspaper!

As for your belief that an inmate processing facility would fly under the radar, is a $245 million facility that has been discussed by the City and County and in the media for the last 10 years, AND had its very own bond referendum (which the voters rejected) in 2007 not enough publicity for you?

Harris County Capital Improvements June 2007

November 2007 Bond Election