The Allen: Mixed-Use Development At Allen Parkway & Gillette St.

[freundb]

14 hours ago, Luminare said:

Note to self in my future designs...apparently when spec'ing cool wavy/curvy metal panel wall systems expect a lead time of 8 months to a year. Yikes.

How likely is it that those were made out of country and sitting on a boat for months?

[hindesky]

[monarch]

^^^ is it just me, or is the smaller auxiliary edifice MUCH LARGER than what the original renderings/concepts exhibited?  heck, i didn't even realize that it was actually (4x floors).  it just seems like it's going to become HUGE and spectacular once fully completed...

[freundb]

I think it matches the renderings. Link to Urbannizer's post from 2019:

[BEES?!]

That condo/hotel tower is really trippy to look at. 

[hindesky]

50 minutes ago, BEES?! said:

That condo/hotel tower is really trippy to look at. 

Someone else agrees with you or you tagged this.🤪🤣

[editor]

On 12/15/2021 at 12:40 PM, freundb said:

How likely is it that those were made out of country and sitting on a boat for months?

Can't say whether that's the case with this project, but I did see that happen with a building in Seattle. 

Then again, shipping facade panels from China to Seattle is significantly cheaper than sending them all the way to Houston. 

[pm91]

It looks like it topped out

[BlindTiger]

On 12/15/2021 at 1:40 PM, freundb said:

How likely is it that those were made out of country and sitting on a boat for months?

This is correct. The silver cladding is all fabricated in Australia.  Or at least that is the info I got when talking with someone involved in the project ages ago after they had constructed the little condo showroom. 

[Specwriter]

On 12/23/2021 at 1:38 PM, BlindTiger said:

This is correct. The silver cladding is all fabricated in Australia.  Or at least that is the info I got when talking with someone involved in the project ages ago after they had constructed the little condo showroom. 

I also heard Australia from a reliable source who also told me the panels are not metal but a composite material with metal pieces embedded for attachment to the building.

[brijonmang]

 

[talltexan83]

I know it is a politically sensitive subject (and I won't pretend to know the right answer), but with the public housing parcel adjacent to this site quickly becoming some of the most valuable land in the city, is there a path forward that would benefit all involved?  So the city sells all or part of the land for a fortune, then uses the proceeds to build more units/housing that existed before?  

[Avossos]

25 minutes ago, talltexan83 said:

I know it is a politically sensitive subject (and I won't pretend to know the right answer), but with the public housing parcel adjacent to this site quickly becoming some of the most valuable land in the city, is there a path forward that would benefit all involved?  So the city sells all or part of the land for a fortune, then uses the proceeds to build more units/housing that existed before?  

I would like them to sell all of the land with a reserve of multiple parcels for a combination of mid rise and high-rise towers that can be offered are equal cost to the residents. My thought is if this is integrated seamlessly into a multiple phased development by one or more trustworthy developers, it would produce the highest results (equity / function / beauty). The city could get involved and make this really great.

I think it is possible to triple to unit offerings and make money that can be used to provide modern options at a greater quantity at the same location.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Avossos

[thatguysly]

Good luck with all that. The COH is already looking bad for it's shortage and new cycles over affordable housing and bidding for new affordable housing. Tearing down a bunch of units while you wait for new ones is just going to be bad optics, even if the end outcome is better. Look at The Ion and multiple it by a ton. Second, that area is so historical, Freedoms Town, that it is nearly untouchable.

[MidCenturyMoldy]

4 hours ago, thatguysly said:

 Second, that area is so historical, Freedoms Town, that it is nearly untouchable.

I don't know, maybe it's just a typo or an autocorrection, but if not, it's Freedmen's Town.

[phillip_white]

5 hours ago, thatguysly said:

Good luck with all that. The COH is already looking bad for it's shortage and new cycles over affordable housing and bidding for new affordable housing. Tearing down a bunch of units while you wait for new ones is just going to be bad optics, even if the end outcome is better. Look at The Ion and multiple it by a ton. Second, that area is so historical, Freedoms Town, that it is nearly untouchable.

The entire site is the size of City Centre, so I don't see why you would have to raze everything to redevelop it. And it would actually be nice to preserve the community feel of the neighborhood. So why not tear down one building at a time and rebuild denser with a parking garage or two on each end and place community amenities/stores on the ground floor? Plus you could create a mix of housing stock so you would have low income renters mixed with upper middle class condo owners. It doesn't have to be highrises either, just an entire neighborhood of buildings similar to the Baldwin & Gray section of Midtown.

I know this will never happen, but it seems really simple in front of a keyboard.

[freundb]

East of The Allen and north of Dallas isn't part of Freedmen's Town is it? That could be prime area for development.

[phillip_white]

16 hours ago, freundb said:

East of The Allen and north of Dallas isn't part of Freedmen's Town is it? That could be prime area for development.

Even if it was originally, everything of historical value has been destroyed.

[Amlaham]

I think one day, it's going to have to get redeveloped. The fact that it's practically in downtown, off buffalo bayou, and suburban style strongly suggests it won't sit for too long. Not saying its going to happen soon, but eventually, it's inevitable. Also, there isn't much land left to develop on this side of town, so land value is skyrocketing. That lot fits about 20 apartment buildings the size of the "Pearl" apartment buildings, and you can fit everyone in this block into 1 building lol.

[Texasota]

That's not exactly true.

It's not the same thing, but there are still 18 buildings of WPA-era public housing. You can see them pretty clearly in an aerial view because they have flat roofs.

[Amlaham]

So this area is considered freedmen's town, but not part of the Historic portion.... meaning it technically does not have to be preserved. It was first built in 1944, so I don't see how it holds any historic value. If that was the case, most buildings inside the loop and off memorial would be considered historic too. I mean....theres even homes in sugar land built during the 40s....

[Texasota]

I mean, I'm not making this up. It was actually listed in the National Register as the San Felipe Courts historic district in the 80s. 

Here's the listing: San Felipe Courts Historic District_02/16/1988 (archives.gov)

Now, since it was listed close to half of the contributing buildings were torn down and replaced with the other lower quality stuff that's there now, so the integrity of the district has definitely been compromised. But, as I said, 18 buildings remain.

Their relationship to Freedmen's Town is... complicated, since they were pretty explicitly built as housing for *white* families, but of course their occupancy has changed significantly over time. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Texasota

[sapo2367]

To be fair, acknowledging a historic district can mean more than just preserving certain buildings. Freedman's town was the first area of Houston where free black people (mostly former slaves) built a community for themselves. Even if that was subsequently razed and a housing project was put in its place, that doesn't mean we should just go ahead and build out a bunch of high end shopping and condos because that history is 'done'.

I think there are much better uses for that land than the current housing development (mixed use midrise with affordable units?), but any developer should make sure they are incorporating the history in a thoughtful manner. 

[Texasota]

I would love to see the old public housing buildings clustered around Valentine Way retained (so 12 buildings). If you havent seen them in person (which would not be surprising because the complex is gated), they are genuinely very cool, and that core set gives you the community buildings, reasonably dense housing, and an allee of old growth oaks. 

I'd also like to see the bakery building south of that razed so Valentine Way can be extended to Dallas/reconnected. Half the land to the immediate east is part of the public housing complex; the half facing Dalla is not. Consolidate those lots and build an 18 story mixed use building with a small grocer on the ground floor. That will provide enough new housing to provide places to live while you start redeveloping the rest of the complex, re-establishing a real street grid, and removing the fencing and gates.

[samagon]

1 hour ago, Amlaham said:

So this area is considered freedmen's town, but not part of the Historic portion.... meaning it technically does not have to be preserved. It was first built in 1944, so I don't see how it holds any historic value. If that was the case, most buildings inside the loop and off memorial would be considered historic too. I mean....theres even homes in sugar land built during the 40s....

 

1944 was 78 years ago. how old does something have to be to be considered historic?

Edited January 11, 2022 by samagon

[MidCenturyMoldy]

34 minutes ago, Texasota said:

I mean, I'm not making this up. It was actually listed in the National Register as the San Felipe Courts historic district in the 80s. 

I either never knew, or had forgotten (both are equally plausible), that it had once been called San Felipe Courts. I've always known it as Allen Parkway Village. 

[Amlaham]

1 hour ago, samagon said:

1944 was 78 years ago. how old does something have to be to be considered historic?

I mean... some of our parents are around that age, I wouldn't consider that historic. The entire east end all the way out to Wayside was built way before this lot in the 1930s (I saw one home built in 1910). Even then, people are tearing them down and building newer homes (not saying I agree with it). So I don't see why anyone would advocate for this lot and not the thousands of other lots that are way older. The buildings themselves have absolutely no architectural significance, it's literally a suburban style gated apartment complex. It doesn't even hold a cultural significance, as stated above, this was built for WHITE families. Its a 32 acre lot housing 222 units, extremely inefficient use of land. If we really want to help, we can start by providing more affordable housing on this lot. 

 

[Twinsanity02]

2 hours ago, MidCenturyMoldy said:

I either never knew, or had forgotten (both are equally plausible), that it had once been called San Felipe Courts. I've always known it as Allen Parkway Village. 

Depends where you are at. I  imagine in Egypt, Fertile Crescent, Turkey , China or the Indus valley 78 years isn't much. A drop in the bucket. Or for that matter Europe. Houston on the other hand.

[phillip_white]

4 hours ago, samagon said:

1944 was 78 years ago. how old does something have to be to be considered historic?

I'm not sure about elsewhere but, in Houston, you can only call something historic if it was demolished using an antique wrecking ball.

[MidCenturyMoldy]

4 hours ago, Twinsanity02 said:

   6 hours ago,  MidCenturyMoldy said: 

I either never knew, or had forgotten (both are equally plausible), that it had once been called San Felipe Courts. I've always known it as Allen Parkway Village. 

 

Depends where you are at. I  imagine in Egypt, Fertile Crescent, Turkey , China or the Indus valley 78 years isn't much. A drop in the bucket. Or for that matter Europe. Houston on the other hand.

I think you quoted me while replying to samagon.

Edited January 12, 2022 by MidCenturyMoldy