GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[Nole23]

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

I don't know when you lived in downtown Houston, but if it wasn't in the past six months, it's almost irrelevant. You clearly do not know downtown Houston.

 

And your attempts to draw imaginary lines around what is and is not part of the downtown fabric is ridiculous.  What sense does it make to claim that tourists, convention goers, visiting business people, Astros fans, Rockets fans, etc etc. are not part of the downtown fabric?  Of course they are part of the downtown fabric. That is what makes a vibrant, active downtown so compelling (and worth a little extra effort to create and nurture).

 

 

 

I completely agree with this and just gave up on the discussion because I don't feel like going back and forth. Like someone mentioned earlier, if we focus on the trend of downtown and compare where it was a few years ago, where it is now, and where we are projected to be over the next few years then it is obvious we are heading in the right direction. I currently live downtown and there are no shortage of restaurants open and things to do after work hours and weekends. This was not the case a few short years ago.

[Houston19514]

25 minutes ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

You clearly have not noticed that Chipolte can't even sustain itself on a Saturday or Sunday. Get back to me when that's changed. It has everything you would need according to HAIF, ground level retail below a huge apartment building, on the light rail line, in the center of downtown Houston. Yet there are just not enough people to be profitable on the weekends.

 

 

 

ROFL.  Actually, I have noticed.  I'm not sure what difference it makes.  Can we not be a successful downtown until each and every restaurant is open for lunch and dinner 7 days a week?  Or is it just Chipotle we need open on Saturday and Sunday in order to be successful?  Or is it every retail business on the ground floor of The Rice?  In any case, neither I nor anyone else I'm aware of has claimed our work is done or that we have a perfect downtown (as if there is such a thing). We are just now beginning to populate the thousands of new residences; those residents will no doubt have a good effect on the restaurant and bar scene.  Keep on eye on that Chipotle! If the whole chain doesn't go out of business first, you might be surprised!  ;-)

 

I'm not sure what your point is, and judging by your accelerating descent into fallacious arguments, neither do you.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Houston19514

[urbanize713]

Mods, @Urbannizer or who ever else, can we have the discussion from the previous pages moved to more appropriate forums?  Perhaps a portion into a transportation forum and the other into downtown restaurant sub forum?

[KinkaidAlum]

Y'all, downtown is dead. Chipotle isn't open on Saturday night. Light rail killed it.

 

Seriously, stop feeding the troll overstuffed burritos. 

[102IAHexpress]

36 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Keep on eye on that Chipotle! If the whole chain doesn't go out of business first, you might be surprised!  ;-)

 

 

ROFL. Typical fall back position, it's the fault of the business. Do you really want to pursue that failed argument? What is your argument for Cafe Express?, Jason's Deli? Lone Star Taco? Why do they not open on the weekends? According to you they must also be on the brink of failure.

 

The point is that many on this forum attribute without evidence the success of one thing to something totally unrelated especially when it comes to downtown.

 

New office tower in downtown; Great it's because of the light rail. huh?

New bar across from the GRB and Minute Maid; Great it's because downtown is growing like wildfire with new residents! Huh? what about all the restaurants that are literally closed more than they are open in downtown?

 

 

 

[102IAHexpress]

5 minutes ago, KinkaidAlum said:

Y'all, downtown is dead. Chipotle isn't open on Saturday night. Light rail killed it.

 

Seriously, stop feeding the troll overstuffed burritos. 

 

Actually downtown is alive. All the restaurants in the tunnels are really open in the evenings and weekends and they are making a ton of money after hours, it's just nobody knows about it. The light rail is also bringing in tons of passengers to Cafe Express and Chipolte on the weekends but we can't actually see them that's why they appear closed. And the city didn't have to offer tax breaks to developers to build new construction in downtown. Based on all this lets go ahead and fund a tax subsidized retail district in downtown as well, the reports of traditional retail dying because of online shopping is clearly fake news.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Avossos]

Any way to clean this thread up mods?

 

It has become an awful vent session.

[Houston19514]

1 hour ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

Actually downtown is alive. All the restaurants in the tunnels are really open in the evenings and weekends and they are making a ton of money after hours, it's just nobody knows about it. The light rail is also bringing in tons of passengers to Cafe Express and Chipolte on the weekends but we can't actually see them that's why they appear closed. And the city didn't have to offer tax breaks to developers to build new construction in downtown. Based on all this lets go ahead and fund a tax subsidized retail district in downtown as well, the reports of traditional retail dying because of online shopping is clearly fake news.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry dude.  You seem to have slipped from fallacious arguments right into total irrational incoherence.   Your time might be better spent getting away from the keyboard and out of the house so you can get to know the city in which you live.  Buh-bye.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Houston19514

[102IAHexpress]

53 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

Your time might be better spent getting away from the keyboard and out of the house so you can get to know the city in which you live.  Buh-bye.

 

This from the guy who has over 5K posts on an internet forum! Come back to the forum when you have something useful, like evidence and logic.

[IronTiger]

1 hour ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

All the restaurants in the tunnels are really open in the evenings and weekends.

Are you really serious right now? Last week (nay, less than a week ago) I walked from Hess Tower to Travis Place Garage through the tunnel system at maybe 3:30 pm and everything was closed up for the evening. I hardly saw anyone at all except for a small group of employees hanging out in one of the food courts, and every place I remember seeing was closed (except for maybe one) or in the process of closing (kitchen already shut down, employees cleaning up).

 

I don't go to downtown all that often and can't speak on improvements over the recent months/years but I can call out BS when I see it.

[102IAHexpress]

13 minutes ago, IronTiger said:

Are you really serious right now? Last week (nay, less than a week ago) I walked from Hess Tower to Travis Place Garage through the tunnel system at maybe 3:30 pm and everything was closed up for the evening. I hardly saw anyone at all except for a small group of employees hanging out in one of the food courts, and every place I remember seeing was closed (except for maybe one) or in the process of closing (kitchen already shut down, employees cleaning up).

 

I don't go to downtown all that often and can't speak on improvements over the recent months/years but I can call out BS when I see it.

 

Not at all. I was being sarcastic in response to Kinkaid's silly post. In all sincerity you are correct, the tunnels are dead/closed on the weekends and the afternoons. However in the mornings and lunch time they are very popular. During those hours it's one of the few things that has mass appeal in downtown, and the only downtown corridor without the need of government help. If the city is going to get involved at all in a retail district ( i don't think it should in downtown) perhaps it should expand on what currently works. The tunnels. Perhaps build a public tunnel where one is not developed yet. Create an access point from the street and operate it for longer hours and give tax breaks to retail shops that wish operate there.

[KinkaidAlum]

Are you in the restaurant business? I am. I'm a partner in a group with 9 locations and two more on the way. Each of our locations is different. Trust me, if there was a way for us to have a place be profitable enough to be open only M-F during work hours, we'd do it. Have you ever thought of that? Chipotle makes money in that location. If they didn't, it would have closed. They tried different hours and it wasn't worth it so they went back to what worked. Why do more than you need only to eat into profits?

 

Downtown is more of a special events market or bar market when it comes to food service. It's why the majority of steak houses have done well or the restaurants tied-in to the hotels. It's why Batanga (with their killer patio) kills it and the restaurants with full service bars and themes also do well. 

 

We opened a Katy location 2 years ago. It was our first venture into the suburbs. We opened with hours more similar to our inner loop locations but quickly realized the Katy market was family oriented. Within 5 months we started closing at 9 instead of 12-2 am because we could save enough money on staffing, insurance, and alcohol purchases to make the balances work. Our Heights location continues to stay open until 2 am because it is worth it there. 

 

It really is that simple. Markets are different and it is the business' responsibility to figure what works. Chipotle/the franchisee has figured out what works for them at the Rice. Kudos to them. 

[102IAHexpress]

10 hours ago, KinkaidAlum said:

It really is that simple. Markets are different and it is the business' responsibility to figure what works. Chipotle/the franchisee has figured out what works for them at the Rice. Kudos to them. 

 

Thank you. That is exactly my point. In general i call them fabrics in more specific terms you call them markets, we both agree there are essentially two restaurant markets in downtown. The market that caters to the entertainment venues and the market that caters to downtown neighborhood locals. Accordingly, restaurants in downtown have to choose which market or fabric they want to do business with. Chipolte, perhaps because of their lack of alcohol can't successfully do businesses with the entertainment market, and perhaps because of lack of local customers can't do business on the weekends. Same is true with Cafe Express, Jason's Deli, Lone Star Taco, La Palapa, etc..

 

All I'm saying is that there are not that many restaurants for downtown locals in the evenings and weekends. And like an airline that operates a route only 3x a week or 5x a week instead of daily, yes It can operate a profit on just a few flights a week, and there is nothing wrong with that. However, although locals may not need to fly into market everyday, they do need to eat everyday.  Again, I'm not saying there arn't any restaurants open for locals in the evening and weekend because there are some, but not as many as everyone thinks.

 

So lets just taper down the talk that the neighborhood restaurant scene is growing in downtown.

[Mab]

Quote

If good things are worth waiting for then Houston will be handsomely rewarded once the Hotel Alessandra finally opens in the fall. The Alessandra has been a long time coming: Announced in March 2014, the 223-room hotel in downtown's GreenStreet development was supposed to be completed in time for Super Bowl. Weather-related work disruptions and some logistical challenges prevented the hotel from opening before SBLI.

 

But now things are quickly falling into place as the hotel announced an October opening. And even more welcome news about the restaurant concept in the 20-story hotel that is in the final stages of construction.

According to hotelier the Valencia Group (which will design and operate the hotel in partnership with Houston-based Midway which will own it), the Alessandra's white-tablecloth restaurant will be called Lucienne and the lobby bar has been dubbed Bardot. Both the bar and full-service restaurant are located on the second floor.

 

Details about the dining and drinking venues have only recently emerged. The bar Bardot is styled after American cocktail bar that were popular in London at the turn of the century. Perched above the lobby atrium, Bardot serves as a chic getaway for cocktails and light bites.

Foodies will be excited to learn that Lucienne, serving breakfast, lunch and dinner, will feature Mediterranean cuisine executed with French technique, said executive chef Jose Hernandez.

Designed by Gensler with interiors by Rottet Studio, the restaurant suggest a Viennese vaulted café (the long, narrow room has a rib cage ceiling). With walls of banquettes, plenty of natural light, and herringbone pattern floors, the space was designed to feel weightless in its perch above the GreenStreet complex. The restaurant will seat 66 with an additional 30 seats for private dining.

 

Hernandez, currently executive chef at Radio Milano in Valencia Group's Hotel Sorella, will transition to Alessandra in July. He shared with us some additional details about Lucienne, which he says will touch on foods from countries such as Portugal, Greece, France and Spain.

"We will have the freedom to play a little bit with all the Mediterranean countries," he said.

Hernandez, who will oversee all culinary operations at the hotel, said he is working with local farmers and purveyors to ensure that as much of the menu as possible is locally sourced. All the meat will come to the kitchens whole and butchered in house; the hotel will produce all its own artisan breads and pastry.

Lucienne, Hernandez points out, means "light": "We're going to try to bring that to the table – the brightness of the food of the Mediterranean."

Bright doesn't rule out rich, though. Hernandez said he plans to create a foie gras dish seen through the eyes of a Black Forest cake: Pan-seared fresh foie gras and fresh cherries wrapped in a crepe with a chocolate ganache. Another fascinating dish: Sea scallops glossed with white truffle butter mixed with scallop roe served in the shell and covered with puff pastry.

Even with just those two morsels to contemplate (Hernandez said he's still working on the menu), Lucienne sounds enticing. And the chef said he's itching to start delivering a full-tilt white-tablecloth experience.

"I cannot wait to start in the kitchen," Hernandez said. "It's going to be so exciting to start. It's going to be a lot of work but it's exciting to see it all coming from scratch. I'm ready for this to happen."

6

http://www.chron.com/entertainment/restaurants-bars/article/Upscale-white-tablecloth-dining-planned-for-11206252.php?ipid=houstex#photo-13051346

[Twinsanity02]

Monarch or Crockpot and Gravel any thoughts? 

 

[monarch]

^^^ if i have stated it once, i shall happily state it again, "HOTEL ALESSANDRA will change the face of GREENSTREET.  once completed, it shall become the best luxury hotel in the city of houston".  count on it....

Edited June 9, 2017 by monarch

[Twinsanity02]

I am definitely not a luxury hotel coinnoisseur ( wish I were but can't do it with three children), so I am dependent on others perceptions. Would you say this will out class the St. Regis of the Four Seasons?

Edited June 9, 2017 by Twinsanity02
error in spelling

[monarch]

17 minutes ago, Twinsanity02 said:

I am definitely not a luxury hotel coinnoisseur ( wish I were but can't do it with three children), so I am dependenant on others perceptions. Would you say this will out class the St. Regis of the Four Seasons?

^^^ yes, i do.  HOTEL ALESSANDRA is already projected to become a 5***** luxury brand.  therefore, i can see it definitely outclassing the aforementioned brands that you have brought forth.  whenever there is any doubt in your mind, please think of the other extremely viable sister hotel of the valencia group across town... HOTEL SORELLA at city centre. HOTEL ALESSANDRA is designed to be even better than that brilliant and highly successful concept.....

[102IAHexpress]

1 hour ago, Twinsanity02 said:

I am definitely not a luxury hotel coinnoisseur ( wish I were but can't do it with three children), so I am dependenant on others perceptions. Would you say this will out class the St. Regis of the Four Seasons?

 

No. Not even close. It will be a solid hotel but it will not become the new top luxury hotel for Houston.

I like most people, am also not a regular connoisseur of luxury hotels, however a lot of people still will be in the market for luxury hotels during certain life events; like their wedding day. On their wedding day most brides lose all rationality when it comes to budgets and they pretty much demand the best location, best services, best everything, and if they are looking for that in this hotel they will be disappointed. Again, it's a solid hotel, just not a game changing luxury hotel for Houston.

Is there any plans (apologies if it was already mentioned but the design kept changing) for a spa and salon? For a full service luxury wedding now a days you need a spa on location.

[Naviguessor]

I think it'll be classed as a Boutique Hotel.  It looks like it will be quite elegant, a nice place to stay, eat and drink.  It will likely be priced pretty high.  But, a hotel of this size, in this market, simply will not be able support the staff and services that Four Seasons and St Regis do.  This will be close to the JW Marriott in terms of experience but not on the service par with 4S and StR...as I see it. 

[bobruss]

I'm not impressed at all by the arches and interior of this space. The way its painted looks kind of cheap if you ask me. Especially when you compare this to those beautiful early renderings of the interior.

If I remember correctly they were much more sculptural and had a very light airy look. This has a very heavy handed feel and not what I was expecting.

The colors they chose are very harsh and the materials and finishes aren't very impressive. Looks like a contemporary La Quinta.

Sorry just not impressed. 

[BeerNut]

12 hours ago, monarch said:

^^^ yes, i do.  HOTEL ALESSANDRA is already projected to become a 5***** luxury brand.  therefore, i can see it definitely outclassing the aforementioned brands that you have brought forth.  whenever there is any doubt in your mind, please think of the other extremely viable sister hotel of the valencia group across town... HOTEL SORELLA at city centre. HOTEL ALESSANDRA is designed to be even better than that brilliant and highly successful concept.....

I'm still waiting for Houston to get a Mandarin Oriental...  

[Sic'EmBears]

15 hours ago, 102IAHexpress said:

No. Not even close.

 

Precisely. 

 

[UtterlyUrban]

Perhaps this hotel will look lovely in person. However, the published images either leave me flat or make me wince. 

[hindesky]

Main entrance is taking shape.

[tigereye]

 

[monarch]

^^^ props to you @tigereye for this gorgeous/remarkable illustration.  this only proves that i was indeed correct about this burgeoning property, HOTEL ALESSANDRA is poised to become one of the best hospitality brands in downtown houston.  wow!

[UtterlyUrban]

This building is a visual disappointment and the potted stubby shrubbery by an otherwise barren pool -- seemingly devoid of any amenity other than a rectangular concrete hole with water in it --- that seems more suitable to a Hampton Inn looks anything but "luxe".   

 

 

[monarch]

7 hours ago, UtterlyUrban said:

This building is a visual disappointment and the potted stubby shrubbery by an otherwise barren pool -- seemingly devoid of any amenity other than a rectangular concrete hole with water in it --- that seems more suitable to a Hampton Inn looks anything but "luxe".   

 

 

^^^ HOTEL ALESSANDRA is STILL undergoing construction.  surely, certain areas of this edifice are going to be a bit "barren" when they are still undergoing the design and decorative stages.  the pool terrace shrubbery/plants are normally the first to come out before all of the other terrace's decor.  EVERYBODY knows this... right?

[Montrose1100]

At least the pool looks bigger than the excuse Sorella has.

 

Edit: The building kind of fits the early 2000's style of the whole development. Not an insult.