monarch Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 not to mention, what about the height factor? since when is being 25 stories.. just too tall being downtown? quite bizarre indeed.... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Purify Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I won't comment anymore on the actual building, since some ppl on this forum seem to bemoan criticism. I will objectively state that this is turning into a PR nightmare for Midway. They (and their agents/cohorts) need to just stop talking. No more press releases and interviews. Start building the thing and move on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTHONYHTOWN Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Could have used better excuses or be to the point and said, well money did really become a factor and we went over our heads with original design. Everyone know that the original design including them was to make an impact and stand out. FUNNY!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt16 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I won't comment anymore on the actual building, since some ppl on this forum seem to bemoan criticism. I will objectively state that this is turning into a PR nightmare for Midway. They (and their agents/cohorts) need to just stop talking. No more press releases and interviews. Start building the thing and move on.I wouldn't call it a nightmare. The average person doesn't even know it's going to be built, much less what the original design called for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I wouldn't call it a nightmare. The average person doesn't even know it's going to be built, much less what the original design called for.That is sort of correct. But people living in the loop catch wind of such things on social media. I assume they didn't expect this much backlash, but the townsfolk won't be burning down CityCentre and rioting down Greenstreet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollusk Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Somehow, these comments are inspiring... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxtethogrady Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 "When asked if cost was a factor in the redesign, Kifer referred HBJ to Midway. Midway didn't respond to multiple requests for comment" I wonder why The best indicator of cost cutting value engineering is the statement that the hotel will lose 4 floors but still have the same number of rooms. Smaller rooms, obviously; the customer experience is going to suffer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 The best indicator of cost cutting value engineering is the statement that the hotel will lose 4 floors but still have the same number of rooms. Smaller rooms, obviously; the customer experience is going to suffer. What are the chances that Midway caught wind of info that some other very high end hotel--as of yet unannounced but in the development pipeline--will build Downtown, and decided to aim just a bit lower than before because they know they won't be the most luxurious anyway? Speculating, but cutting your losses makes sense when you know you can't compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminare Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) What are the chances that Midway caught wind of info that some other very high end hotel--as of yet unannounced but in the development pipeline--will build Downtown, and decided to aim just a bit lower than before because they know they won't be the most luxurious anyway? Speculating, but cutting your losses makes sense when you know you can't compete. No disrespect to you at all, but I have never heard of this scenario ever play out. I mean never. If you have the chance to build it then you build it. If they were actually worried about their competition they would build it better because that's their competition. I know people are really pissed off at Midway, but it's not like someone goes into something and says, "you know what? I want to aim for mediocre!" Bullcrap. They didn't agree with the initial design and so they changed to what THEY thought would look best. You know what? They didn't have to release the new renderings, but they did so I think they are confident in their product, and were thinking about all of greenstreet instead of just one building. Like I have said before, I wish they had done the other building, but the context argument is genuine. Site and context are just as important as the building itself. If that was more important to them than having the building be all crazy looking and standout from it's neighbors then I will say they chose the better design for their purposes. One fits into it's surroundings while the other one is more bold and attention seeking. Sparrow, I actually want you to ask yourself that same question that if you were in that same situation would actually DOWNGRADE your building because of competition? That makes no logical sense even in a speculative manner, but I point this out because this has become the prevailing theme in the thread as a whole in that this building is a downgrade when no one has really taken into account what Midway wanted from the very beginning. Clearly Gensler went in a different direction than what Midway wanted initially and until the pricing for the project came in they were probably ok with it, but when it came down too it they probably were at odds with the project from the beginning. They are two completely different style of buildings and should be treated as such and if the client got exactly what they wanted (which looks like they did) then this building is a success because that is the most important thing an architect is suppose to do. I champion all the time on here about architecture as an art form, but an architect is suppose to navigate the clients needs with their own desires for the project. Edited February 6, 2015 by Luminare 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Huge Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Like I have said before, I wish they had done the other building, but the context argument is genuine. Site and context are just as important as the building itself. If that was more important to them than having the building be all crazy looking and standout from it's neighbors then I will say they chose the better design for their purposes. One fits into it's surroundings while the other one is more bold and attention seekingUhhhh, so, since when does the original design standing out from its surroundings because its so freakin sleek and badass make it a BAD thing?Im not buying the logic here, "Its surroundings are alot shorter and uglier so we decided to make our product shorter and uglier to match the surroundings." Yea, no. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Huge Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 For me, a bold and attention seeking 25 story hotel with a sky lobby, sky pool, LED outline, and a retractable roof would have been better than the 20 story generic pile of crap we were left with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminare Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) For me, a bold and attention seeking 25 story hotel with a sky lobby, sky pool, LED outline, and a retractable roof would have been better than the 20 story generic pile of crap we were left with. I actually agree with you, but that's only because my sensibilities are more towards architecture that is very sensationalist, bold, and visually complex. However, there are times when the design calls for something more understated. If done in the right way its very elegant and seamless with the larger fabric and framework of the greater whole. Additions to existing complexes, restorations, simply building something within an already established system all call for architecture which complements whats already there to some degree. Of course sometimes those very same things can go in a completely opposite direction (or in other words a departure from the original). It all depends on the situation. There have been a couple times in Architecture schoool where this was the case and it happens in actual industry. Am I happy the direction Midway took it, no. I think the property that they inherited was not very well conceived in the beginning and so they should take the complex in a new direction aesthetically. With that being said, I completely understand why they went in this direction and I think the design is rather good for the choice that they made and from a few comments before where someone actually saw the valued engineered version of the design we want, it's probably better that they took this direction. Midway with this decision is clearly looking at Greenstreet as a single entity and not a collection of stuff. This means that they are more concerned with the aesthetics of the whole rather than the look of a few standout buildings. I mean think about what happens when they do build the original design. It would be such a stark contrast between the new building and the older complex that it make mean that the whole thing might need to be adjusted to flow with the hotel design. What I'm saying is that most in this thread fail to see the greater implications of these decisions. Midway owns the whole thing not just the small piece of land which the building will raise from. Design is way more complicated than simply whether something looks cool/not cool, or like/not like. Edited February 6, 2015 by Luminare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoustonIsHome Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I think the property that they inherited was not very well conceived in the beginning and so they should take the complex in a new direction aesthetically.... It would be such a stark contrast between the new building and the older complex that it make mean that the whole thing might need to be adjusted to flow with the hotel design.Which do you think would be more prudent in the long term (keeping cost in mind) upgrading the surroundings to keep up with the hotel or downgrade plans for the hotel to keep in line with the surroundings? Didn't GSM just get some touch up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminare Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Didn't GSM just get some touch up? sure but really when you look at it, it was just a bunch of finish changes, new paint, and pavers. Not much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtterlyUrban Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 sure but really when you look at it, it was just a bunch of finish changes, new paint, and pavers. Not much.Correct.Take a look at the original renderings for greenstreet that midway put out a couple of years ago. Look at it now. To me, they are not even close. One was a terrific vision of the future. The other is some grass and pavers.Now midway publishes the first hotel. Then publishes a much revised hotel that is much less lofty. Then they suggest that the first hotel "did not fit the surroundings"..... Well, I agree. And, the reason I agree is because they haven't done much to greenstreet to fulfil their original vision.Midway has only owned the property for a couple of years. That is not much time to make the changes needed to fulfill the original vision. Perhaps over the next 3 years that vision will be realized. I hope so. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchFan Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Here's one thing that gives me some support for being optimistic: despite being unimpressed with the renderings for City Center (Centre?), as well as how it looks as realized ... it seems to be very successful and conveys a sense of energy that draws people to it. To me, the little public plaza area is great. I love to watch the little kids play there, whose parents come from all around the world. If they can replicate that success at Greenstreet -- even with boring architecture -- I will be happy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fernz Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxtethogrady Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 For me, a bold and attention seeking 25 story hotel with a sky lobby, sky pool, LED outline, and a retractable roof would have been better than the 20 story generic pile of crap we were left with.What about a generic pile of crap with an LED outline? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Huge Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 What about a generic pile of crap with an LED outline?You can polish a turd.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxtethogrady Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 ...and sell it as a cowchip in a Western store... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elseed Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Any update on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigereye Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Any update on this?Last update was construction soon. Sometime 1Q coinciding with Main St refresher I believe from last PDF posted. Metro has already rerouted all bus lines off Dallas to Clay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 The sidewalk around this site has been fenced off, so I assume that visible work will begin shortly. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigereye Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 The sidewalk around this site has been fenced off, so I assume that visible work will begin shortly.Visible signs already showing underneath the sky bridge. https://twitter.com/thachadwick/status/567408556387753984 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (Possible) redevelopment for Younan Square (1010 Lamar). It's on the DRA agenda for tomorrow's meeting. Will create a thread once we know if the proposed changes to this building are significant or not. 02172015_JOINT_BOD_MEETING_AGENDA.pdf 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 (Possible) redevelopment for Younan Square (1010 Lamar). It's on the DRA agenda for tomorrow's meeting. Will create a thread once we know if the proposed changes to this building are significant or not. 02172015_JOINT_BOD_MEETING_AGENDA.pdf From an email I received: " In January 2013, Mayor Parker announced the formation of a Downtown Retail Task Force to research available retail opportunities and consider physical and policy changes needed to address challenges currently impacting Downtown's consumer appeal, ease of shopping, recruitment, commerce and ability to attract retailers. Later that year, the Task Force issued a report which concluded that market demand exists for urban lifestyle options with a mix of hard and soft goods retailers, food and entertainment within an urban shopping district. It also determined that an important factor for success is establishing a critical mass of retailer space by securing commitments from property owners to participate in development, coordinated management, leasing and promotion of the shopping district. Yesterday's action item acquired full Board approval to execute the Memorandum of Understanding and initiate a Request for Qualifications (RFQ) for the redevelopment of 1010 Lamar and 1111 Main Street. The RFQ for the redevelopment of the Site will seek a developer and design team to develop, own and operate a mixed-use development at the current location of the Garage Facility and the ground floor and second floor of the Office Building in accordance with minimum requirements established in the RFQ document." 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate99 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Yesterday's action item acquired full Board approval to execute the Memorandum of Understanding and initiate a Request for Qualifications (RFQ) for the redevelopment of 1010 Lamar and 1111 Main Street. The RFQ for the redevelopment of the Site will seek a developer and design team to develop, own and operate a mixed-use development at the current location of the Garage Facility and the ground floor and second floor of the Office Building in accordance with minimum requirements established in the RFQ document." 1111 Main is Sakowitz, right? Will the skanky fried chicken shop survive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminare Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Sakowitz return to former glory? We can only hope so. It still has a very nice edifice which under the right care could be fully restored. Fingers crossed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtterlyUrban Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 the 1111 main location. Retail turned vacant turned garage turned (hopefully) retail again.I don't understand the Lamar location. How does this fit? What is the city trying to do here? How do these two buildings (other than proximity) relate to each other? Why is the city seeking proposals? Does the city own both buildings? How can it do an RFQ if it doesn't? I am totally confused. Help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Otto Mation) Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 THIRD EXPOSURE has added a photo to the pool: Click here to view this photo at the HAIF Photo Pool on Flickr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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