George R. Brown Convention Center Redevelopment, Office Building & W Hotel

[hindesky]

I remember talking with a Vaughn company engineer during the office build about the prospects of the hotel and he said the office was built structurally with the intention of the hotel being on top.

[hindesky]

On 11/23/2015 at 8:25 PM, hindesky said:

Vaughn engineer I talked when they were lifting the sky bridge told me the building was designed to accommodate a 20 story hotel on top of the office building but he didn't know when it would be built.

 

[Luminare]

1 hour ago, rechlin said:

 

The rendering pretty clearly shows the W hotel on top of the tower, not the garage.  The amenities deck is on top of the front part of the tower and the W hotel is on top of the back part of the tower.  None appears to be on top of the garage.  And I watched them build that garage; there is no way that garage is supporting a hotel like that.  So no, I am pretty sure you are incorrect.  Yes, a little bit of the garage is incorporated into the existing tower, but I'm not counting that since that's well below the beginning of the hotel.

 

Well yesterday was certainly a day for me to be dead wrong on some things, so I definitely concede to your arguments and the arguments made by others. You are correct. I was wrong. Was listening to a favorite youtuber of mine and he said something that was really interesting, which I try to avoid doing, but certainly I wasn't following yesterday which was, "arguing from conclusions instead of arguing to a conclusion". I was wrong to start with the preconceived conclusion, that not only did I not think it was going to be built on top, but even worse that I thought I was right. Instead I should have approached like in this post:

 

3 hours ago, Montrose1100 said:

Until we get the new/confirmed rendering, we won't know. But the current one is tricky to the eye.

 

The W's amenity deck looks to be on the roof of the Partnership Tower. There are visible columns sticking out of the roof on google earth that don't look like functional roof equipment. Did everyone forget how MD Anderson added height to their Med Center Tower a few years ago? Anyone know how it disrupted their operations?

 

 

 

However, the render shows the skywalk towards the front of the tower - which in reality is towards to "back" in the angle facing the rendering.

 

 

 

 

and investigated.

 

Regardless, I was wrong. You were right.

 

13 minutes ago, hindesky said:

I remember talking with a Vaughn company engineer during the office build about the prospects of the hotel and he said the office was built structurally with the intention of the hotel being on top.

 

Now this is why I probably formed my ill-conceived conclusion was because I made the jump to conclusion that this was more than likely VE'ed out the documents for construction consider in a number of images leading up to construction the hotel was omitted even though they wished to put a hotel on top. If you have a source on the ground that says this building was built structurally to handle the load of a hotel on top then I would believe you because they have access to the documents and we don't.

 

Then next step though is this:

 

4 hours ago, Nate99 said:

As usual, I don't actually know any specifics here, but the first thing that popped into my head in either scenario would be how disruptive it would be to continue the tower upwards on all of the builing infrastructure. Utilities, elevators, etc., would have to have some pretty innovative (expensive) engineering for them to just pick up where they left off and keep going up with everything a hotel takes to run efficiently.  

 

In my uneducated mind, seems like some additional work in the footprint of garage portion would make the effort more manageable, but there was talk of building it for the next phase, so there could be Easter eggs of engineering tucked into what is there now that I can't see. 

 

Which I agree with. I personally think that it would just be cheaper and more cost effective to just build it on the garage due to these disruptions, but then when I read this:

 

2 hours ago, phillip_white said:

They could just extend the columns from the current roof up to the next floor plate and begin pouring. The current roof area would be a maintenance and storage floor that is wrapped in glass like the rest of the tower. The buffer between the hotel and office portions would also keep the construction noise down. Once the hotel is ready, you would build out the elevator infrastructure and connect them once complete.

 

Phillip brings up a great point as well. Which makes it more believable that this can happen.

 

Its also really rare to add onto a tower. Its not done very often. I know it will be really fun to go on the ground and watch construction take place because it would be interesting to see them disassemble and then start building up from there.

 

More importantly...we need a new render and more info. That would be great. Its not wise for any of use to base all of our assumptions from something that was rendered a couple years ago.

 

Once again though that doesn't mean that as of right now clearly I was wrong and the positions that have been stated thus far and with really good existing evidence are right.

[Houston19514]

3 hours ago, Montrose1100 said:

Until we get the new/confirmed rendering, we won't know. But the current one is tricky to the eye.

 

The W's amenity deck looks to be on the roof of the Partnership Tower. There are visible columns sticking out of the roof on google earth that don't look like functional roof equipment. Did everyone forget how MD Anderson added height to their Med Center Tower a few years ago? Anyone know how it disrupted their operations?

 

Even more recently, Texas Childrens Hospital added 19 stories to the top of an existing 6-story building.

[Luminare]

1 minute ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Even more recently, Texas Childrens Hospital added 19 stories to the top of an existing 6-story building.

 

my favorite project that is both demoing and adding on top is the Times square Palace Theater Redevelopment. Where they are going to demo a skyscraper. Left a theater a full floor intact, and then add a new skyscraper on top. Its some crazy voodoo magic shit.

 

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=2204454

[rechlin]

I used a webcam to record the construction of the existing tower, along with the other buildings nearby, from 2015 to the present.  I still haven't gotten around to making the timelapse video (over 200,000 three-megapixel images).  Now the Hampton/Homewood blocks most of my view of the roof of the tower, but I am expecting to relocate 3 floors higher in July, which should give a better view, so if the construction doesn't start until then I should be able to get the construction progress of the roof preparations for the hotel in my webcam.

[Moore713]

They pushed so hard for this... That you would think they will only accept something signature.  I glad we are getting infill but when do we get to the part where they want their buildings to standout?

[nate4l1f3]

I could have my projects mixed up but I recall that the lobby for this wouldn’t be at ground level, correct? 
 

Never mind. I got my answer from page 7. Hotel lobby will be on ground floor. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by nate4l1f3

[cloud713]

19 hours ago, Moore713 said:

They pushed so hard for this... That you would think they will only accept something signature.  I glad we are getting infill but when do we get to the part where they want their buildings to standout?

Agreed.. I know we've beat a dead horse over this boring design, but even if they just played off of the balcony of the office portion somewhere up the hotel, it would be better than a plain rectangle. Im in Barcelona right now, and the W hotel here on the coast is quite a stark difference from our design.

[H-Town Man]

21 hours ago, hindesky said:

 

 

I was going to say that I don't really like the process (welfare grant to a high end hotel) but I like the result, but if this is the actual rendering, I don't even like the result! This is like Woodlands Waterway, circa 2005!

 

[monarch]

10 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I was going to say that I don't really like the process (welfare grant to a high end hotel) but I like the result, but if this is the actual rendering, I don't even like the result! This is like Woodlands Waterway, circa 2005!

 

^^^ @H-Town Man this is not the actual rendering/concept of the proposed W HOTEL!  the aforementioned illustration, was one the earliest depictions/concepts for when they first started discussing the idea of constructing a hotel on top of the HOUSTON FIRST edifice.

 

please trust me on this, WE HAVE NOT YET VIEWED THE ACTUAL TRUE ARTIST RENDITION/CONCEPT, OF THE ACTUAL W HOTEL, THAT SHALL ACTUALLY BE CONSTRUCTED ATOP THE HOUSTON FIRST TOWER.  heck, the edifice hasn't even been thus approved by the HOUSTON CITY COUNCIL as of yet...

Edited January 23, 2020 by monarch

[Avossos]

5 minutes ago, monarch said:

^^^ @H-Town Man this is not the actual rendering/concept of the proposed W HOTEL!  the aforementioned illustration, was one the earliest depictions/concepts for when they first started discussing the idea of constructing a hotel on top of the HOUSTON FIRST edifice.

 

please trust me on this, WE HAVE NOT YET VIEWED THE ACTUAL TRUE ARTIST RENDITION/CONCEPT, OF THE ACTUAL W HOTEL, THAT SHALL ACTUALLY BE CONSTRUCTED ATOP THE HOUSTON FIRST TOWER.  heck, the edifice hasn't even been thus approved by the HOUSTON CITY COUNCIL as of yet...

 

I hope you are right. But I don't think it will be much different... The base will be the same either way and the tower will likely need to jive in glass color and style.

[monarch]

1 hour ago, Avossos said:

 

I hope you are right. But I don't think it will be much different... The base will be the same either way and the tower will likely need to jive in glass color and style.

^^^ @Avossos i hear you loud and clearly my good pal.  however, regardless of the scope/scale of the base, at the very end of the day... it shall still be a (308rm) luxurious downtown houston W-HOTEL.  thus, making my long awaited W DREAM come true.  LET'S REJOICE!

Edited January 23, 2020 by monarch

[H-Town Man]

When/if this gets done, what other essential hotels will we need for downtown to have a solid hospitality array? Kimpton is going in Midtown and Thompson on Allen Parkway so those are covered. Ritz-Carlton? Fairmont?

 

[dbigtex56]

4 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

When/if this gets done, what other essential hotels will we need for downtown to have a solid hospitality array? Kimpton is going in Midtown and Thompson on Allen Parkway so those are covered. Ritz-Carlton? Fairmont?

 

How's downtown fixed for micro-hotels or youth hostels?

[wilcal]

1 hour ago, dbigtex56 said:

How's downtown fixed for micro-hotels or youth hostels?

 

Always thought that the Days Inn would be up for something like that. Doesn't it have low ceilings and small-ish rooms?

[BeerNut]

3 hours ago, dbigtex56 said:

How's downtown fixed for micro-hotels or youth hostels?

 

There's nothing downtown.  There's Morty Rich Hostel in Montrose and Wanderstay Hotel in Third Ward.  I don't think downtown Houston would be the place for a micro-hotel or hostel.  East Downtown would be perfect though.

Edited January 23, 2020 by BeerNut
grammar

[Luminare]

14 minutes ago, BeerNut said:

 

There's nothing downtown.  There's Morty Rich Hostel in Montrose and Wanderstay Hotel in Third Ward.  I don't think downtown Houston has would be the place for a micro-hotel or hostel.  East Downtown would be perfect though.

 

Would like to see more Hostels, but this is only viable once you get more transit options. The kind of clientele who lodge in a hostel aren't going to be those who will also rent a car. This is speaking as someone who used hostels frequently in Europe as well as hung out with many who did as well.

[Houston19514]

On 1/22/2020 at 12:25 PM, Luminare said:

 

my favorite project that is both demoing and adding on top is the Times square Palace Theater Redevelopment. Where they are going to demo a skyscraper. Left a theater a full floor intact, and then add a new skyscraper on top. Its some crazy voodoo magic shit.

 

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=2204454

 

Cool project.   Are they really totally demolishing the existing hotel tower or just gutting it and putting on a new skin?  Different sources give different answers.

 

The really interesting part of the project is the theater... They are going to literally pick the entire theatre up, stage and all, in order to elevate the theatre thirty feet, thereby creating more ground-floor retail space.

[mattyt36]

1 hour ago, BeerNut said:

 

There's nothing downtown.  There's Morty Rich Hostel in Montrose and Wanderstay Hotel in Third Ward.  I don't think downtown Houston would be the place for a micro-hotel or hostel.  East Downtown would be perfect though.

 

Does the Moxy qualify as a "micro hotel"?  (Any one know what is going on with that, BTW?)

[Big E]

On 1/23/2020 at 2:27 PM, Luminare said:

 

Would like to see more Hostels, but this is only viable once you get more transit options. The kind of clientele who lodge in a hostel aren't going to be those who will also rent a car. This is speaking as someone who used hostels frequently in Europe as well as hung out with many who did as well.

 

That shouldn't be a problem for the W Hotel we are talking here. These ultra-luxury hotels are frequented by the exact kind of people who would not only rent a car, but hire someone to drive them everywhere. Honestly, for a city this size, Houston has a dearth of hotels of this caliber. We are talking the Ritz-Carlton, St. Regis, JW Marriot, and The Luxury Collection by Marriott. The Waldorf Astoria, Conrad Hotels, and LXR Resorts by Hilton. The InterContinental hotels, Kimpton Hotels, and Regent Hotels by Intercontinental. Sofitel and Fairmont Hotels by Accor. Grand Hyatt by Hyatt. Mandarin Oriental. Loews Hotels. Houston's lack of these major brands, which even cities the fraction of its size has is baffling and shows an unbelievably weak hotel sector for a "world class city". Houston has an Intercontinental in the Medical Center, two Omni Hotels, Club Quarters, J.W. Marriott Hotels by the Galleria and in downtown, at least one Wyndham in the Energy Corridor...I'm blanking on any more. While Hostels are nice, its these marquee hotels that are the mark of a truly great city. So something like this, no matter how unappealing the building is, no matter the amount of subsidy, is welcome.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Big E

[kbates2]

6 hours ago, Big E said:

 

That shouldn't be a problem for the W Hotel we are talking here. These ultra-luxury hotels are frequented by the exact kind of people who would not only rent a car, but hire someone to drive them everywhere. 

You are overestimating the cost/clientele/level of luxury of a W hotel. 

[Big E]

16 hours ago, kbates2 said:

You are overestimating the cost/clientele/level of luxury of a W hotel. 

 

I mean they aren't one of Marriott's top Luxury brands (those would be JW Marriott, The Ritz-Carlton, and St. Regis; as a minor correction to my original post, Houston does have a St. Regis to add to the list of ultra-luxury hotels in Houston), but its still a top of the line hotel in a city that doesn't have many, especially downtown (I mean I know you guys just love that downtown Embassy Suites, but Houston can do better).  Though I would probably prefer a JW Marriott over a W Hotel, they just opened one in Downtown Houston in 2014 in the old Carter Building, so a slightly less pricey hotel to complement it and that building with the three different Marriott's in it made sense. Or would you rather they push for a Ritz-Carlton? I'm all for that (fun fact: Houston used to have a Ritz-Carlton; the hotel lost the name when the holding company that ran it refused to pay management fees to the Ritz-Carlton company).

Edited January 27, 2020 by Big E

[mattyt36]

Erm, I wouldn’t call JW Marriott “ultra luxury” any more than I’d call W “luxury.”

Edited January 27, 2020 by mattyt36

[H-Town Man]

4 hours ago, Big E said:

 

I mean they aren't one of Marriott's top Luxury brands (those would be JW Marriott, The Ritz-Carlton, and St. Regis; as a minor correction to my original post, Houston does have a St. Regis and JW Marriott to add it to the list of ultra-luxury hotels in Houston), but its still a top of the line hotel in a city that doesn't have many, especially downtown (I mean I know you guys just love that downtown Embassy Suites, but Houston can do better).  Though I would probably prefer a JW Marriott over a W Hotel, they just opened one in Downtown Houston in 2014 in the old Carter Building, so a slightly less pricey hotel to complement it and that building with the three different Marriott's in it made sense. Or would you rather they push for a Ritz-Carlton? I'm all for that (fun fact: Houston used to have a Ritz-Carlton; the hotel lost the name when the holding company that ran it refused to pay management fees to the Ritz-Carlton company).

 

Ritz-Carlton should be on Market Square or lower Main, not here.

[Big E]

16 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Ritz-Carlton should be on Market Square or lower Main, not here.

 

I'm not sure whether moving it a few blocks over would make that big a difference. Developing a parking lot on Main Street would have been a plus though.

[H-Town Man]

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 1:34 AM, Big E said:

 

That shouldn't be a problem for the W Hotel we are talking here. These ultra-luxury hotels are frequented by the exact kind of people who would not only rent a car, but hire someone to drive them everywhere. Honestly, for a city this size, Houston has a dearth of hotels of this caliber. We are talking the Ritz-Carlton, St. Regis, JW Marriot, and The Luxury Collection by Marriott. The Waldorf Astoria, Conrad Hotels, and LXR Resorts by Hilton. The InterContinental hotels, Kimpton Hotels, and Regent Hotels by Intercontinental. Sofitel and Fairmont Hotels by Accor. Grand Hyatt by Hyatt. Mandarin Oriental. Loews Hotels. Houston's lack of these major brands, which even cities the fraction of its size has is baffling and shows an unbelievably weak hotel sector for a "world class city". Houston has an Intercontinental in the Medical Center, two Omni Hotels, Club Quarters, J.W. Marriott Hotels by the Galleria and in downtown, at least one Wyndham in the Energy Corridor...I'm blanking on any more. While Hostels are nice, its these marquee hotels that are the mark of a truly great city. So something like this, no matter how unappealing the building is, no matter the amount of subsidy, is welcome.

 

So a truly great city is one where the people visiting need cars to drive them everywhere? Whereas the people who stay at hostels, and can get around on two feet, are for the so-so cities?

 

In my experience, the truly great cities usually have tons of hostels, because everybody is trying to stay there, regardless of how much or little is in their pocket. Cities that have luxury hotels but not many hostels - the Dallases, Atlantas, Charlottes of the world - aren't really that great. They have a certain flair for a certain class of people, but the lack of interest for hostelers is telling.

 

[H-Town Man]

10 hours ago, Big E said:

 

I'm not sure whether moving it a few blocks over would make that big a difference. Developing a parking lot on Main Street would have been a plus though.

 

More like a dozen blocks over, an entirely different area of downtown. I think the old-world feel of Market Square/lower Main would be more appealing to Ritz-Carlton than the sports/convention area.

 

[Urbannizer]

An Aloft and Element hotel was proposed here at some point. Glad it never materialized, the design is very tacky.

 

https://www.accoladeds.com/project-gallery/dual-brand-hotel-houston-texas

 

The proposed Aloft and Element Houston Downtown, atop a new office block, would add new, dynamic visuals to the Convention area with its striking facade. Connected and adjacent to the George R Brown Convention Center at the eastern edge of Downtown Houston, it would be the latest addition to Houston’s growing list of downtown hotel options. The hotel combines the Aloft Hotel, with 200 guest rooms, and the Element Hotel, with 160 guest rooms. Entry is at the ground floor through dedicated elevators that take guests to the 12th floor reception with separate zones for the Aloft Hotel and for the Element Hotel. The WXYZ Bar, with a folding glass wall opening to the pool and deck, gives outstanding views of the Houston skyline.

 

[Triton]

55 minutes ago, Urbannizer said:

An Aloft and Element hotel was proposed here at some point. Glad it never materialized, the design is very tacky.

 

https://www.accoladeds.com/project-gallery/dual-brand-hotel-houston-texas

 

 

 

 

 

Wow looked terrible.