The Driscoll High-Rise & River Oaks Shopping Center Developments

[Subdude]

Note merged dupe topics.

[samagon]

On 2/21/2017 at 8:56 PM, H-Town Man said:

 

 

 

I know I must be looking straight at it, but for some reason it escapes me... Can someone tell me why people can't just walk across the street there?

 

 

Perhaps they could install Gondolas, they're pretty popular right now.

 

17 hours ago, KinkaidAlum said:

skwatra is right. I've seen people drive from the North side to the South side just to shop. Seriously. When I lived on Elmen I used to walk to the River Oaks Theater but that was in the 90s and there was also a theater at West Gray @ Waugh. Saw Mars Attacks there after a bowl. Never laughed so hard in my life. 

 

Seriously though, why is W. Gray 4 lanes there? Why wouldn't they drop it to 1 lane each direction, and a suicide turn lane (or median with turn lanes)? At Waugh, they should get rid of the extra lane on both sides and slow it down to encourage pedestrians and discourage people using it as a through street.

 

I watched Mars Attacks at the theater that used to be at BW8 and I10, I didn't have a bowl previous to seeing it, but still laughed quite hard.

 

as far as why people drive across the street, they probably assume it's not one shopping experience, and if they leave their car on one side to go shopping on the other side they'll get towed.

[thatguysly]

Parking is a major part of it. I know at many of the areas the parking is strictly for the 1-5 business in that area. If you walk across, in theory you can get towed. That would have to be changed. For instance, the parking at Mens Warehouse is for their customers only. If you want to go to The Gap down the street, you will have to move your car. The parking at Kroger says for Kroger customers only. The same is for the parking garage at the corner by Barnes and Noble. 

[Texasota]

Well that is absolute idiocy but I would think Weingarten could resolve that, depending on lease terms with their tenets. 

[cspwal]

39 minutes ago, samagon said:

 

Perhaps they could install Gondolas, they're pretty popular right now.

 

 

Seriously though, why is W. Gray 4 lanes there? Why wouldn't they drop it to 1 lane each direction, and a suicide turn lane (or median with turn lanes)? At Waugh, they should get rid of the extra lane on both sides and slow it down to encourage pedestrians and discourage people using it as a through street.

 

I watched Mars Attacks at the theater that used to be at BW8 and I10, I didn't have a bowl previous to seeing it, but still laughed quite hard.

 

as far as why people drive across the street, they probably assume it's not one shopping experience, and if they leave their car on one side to go shopping on the other side they'll get towed.

 

Houston seems to love 4 lane streets even when there could be a better configuration with less travel lanes

Take Westheimer for example - lower Westheimer could work better as a 2 lane street with parking on both sides and left turn lanes at the lights, since that is what people treat it as now anyway

[htownproud]

3 hours ago, cspwal said:

 

Houston seems to love 4 lane streets even when there could be a better configuration with less travel lanes

Take Westheimer for example - lower Westheimer could work better as a 2 lane street with parking on both sides and left turn lanes at the lights, since that is what people treat it as now anyway

i disagree that would work better.  such an arrangement would be similar to Westheimer near Woodhead, and on the weekends in nice weather, the stretch to the east of that intersection is to be avoided at all costs.  i don't see any traffic issues on west gray or lower Westheimer at this time.  let's not create them.   and putting the towing issue aside (which should be fixed), how hard is it for people to walk 30 feet to the stoplight and cross like they do in every other city.  

Edited February 23, 2017 by htownproud

[shasta]

...and Regent Square stands back and watches everything develop around them.

[H-Town Man]

4 hours ago, thatguysly said:

Parking is a major part of it. I know at many of the areas the parking is strictly for the 1-5 business in that area. If you walk across, in theory you can get towed. That would have to be changed. For instance, the parking at Mens Warehouse is for their customers only. If you want to go to The Gap down the street, you will have to move your car. The parking at Kroger says for Kroger customers only. The same is for the parking garage at the corner by Barnes and Noble. 

 

If Weingarten restricts (or lets tenants restrict) their parking so that you can't shop at more than one store, then they're as dumb as I thought.

 

[quietstorm]

7 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

If Weingarten restricts (or lets tenants restrict) their parking so that you can't shop at more than one store, then they're as dumb as I thought.

 

The Village parking is similar in some areas as well.  Unfortunately, restricted parking like this is fairly common phenomenon in our "strip mall" centric city.  

[iah77]

There's literally a 6 story free garage that's is literally a 3 min walk max from any store in the entire complex. Is reserving 3-5 spots for big anchors really a dumb idea considering most people go there for a specific store? Someone going to Brasserie 19 is most likely not going to Gap or the gym equipment store under Americas. So many people here like to call big developers dumb but don't exactly seem to be successful developers. Market forces don't always match our ideals

[H-Town Man]

2 hours ago, quietstorm said:

The Village parking is similar in some areas as well.  Unfortunately, restricted parking like this is fairly common phenomenon in our "strip mall" centric city.  

 

I imagine it is the newer centers in the village that charge higher rents, and thus have national-credit tenants who demand that a certain number of spaces be reserved for their customers. Otherwise I think most of the village has evolved to an "experience" destination where it is understood that the idea is to bring customers in for an extended duration where they will visit several stores.

[H-Town Man]

2 minutes ago, iah77 said:

There's literally a 6 story free garage that's is literally a 3 min walk max from any store in the entire complex. Is reserving 3-5 spots for big anchors really a dumb idea considering most people go there for a specific store? Someone going to Brasserie 19 is most likely not going to Gap or the gym equipment store under Americas. So many people here like to call big developers dumb but don't exactly seem to be successful developers. Market forces don't always match our ideals

 

I knew someone would rush to defend developers. There are only a couple developers in this city I don't like and Weingarten is one of them.

 

[samagon]

6 minutes ago, iah77 said:

There's literally a 6 story free garage that's is literally a 3 min walk max from any store in the entire complex. Is reserving 3-5 spots for big anchors really a dumb idea considering most people go there for a specific store? Someone going to Brasserie 19 is most likely not going to Gap or the gym equipment store under Americas. So many people here like to call big developers dumb but don't exactly seem to be successful developers. Market forces don't always match our ideals

 

We're all talking about this quote from the first page:

Quote

Weingarten is always looking for ways to modernize the iconic shopping center, Drew says, even when those improvements whip up controversy. The company's exploring ways to connect the north and south sides of the complex. They’ve considered an elevated crosswalk, but that idea never got off the ground—literally. The distance across the road is too short; the span would be too steep to walk comfortably. An underground tunnel would likewise have a number of obstacles. Discussions continue.

 

So step one in increasing pedestrian activity of customers is to stop tenants from reserving spots that threaten to tow potential pedestrians  

Edited February 23, 2017 by samagon

[H-Town Man]

One has to think that Weingarten would get rid of the reserved spots if they could, but that the tenants demand it in their leases. I think if the profile of the center reaches a certain level, the landlord can say no and still get the tenants and rents they want. Perfect example is Highland Park Village in Dallas, where the retail rents are some of the highest in the city and parking spaces are not reserved.

[mkultra25]

On 2/22/2017 at 3:42 PM, KinkaidAlum said:

When I lived on Elmen I used to walk to the River Oaks Theater but that was in the 90s and there was also a theater at West Gray @ Waugh. Saw Mars Attacks there after a bowl. Never laughed so hard in my life. 

 

Ah, the Cineplex Odeon River Oaks Plaza. What a great theater. I remember when it opened to great fanfare, and when it closed in the wake of Loews' bankruptcy. Many fond memories, such as seeing Goodfellas when I was half out of it with what turned out to be a case of the flu.

 

Cineplex Odeon theaters were top-notch facilities in their heyday, with the flagship Spectrum on Augusta being the place to go for unequaled image and sound quality. It was one of the first local venues to install multichannel digital sound, and was one of the last to have 70mm capability. Seeing Lawrence of Arabia in 70mm there was a life-changing experience.  

[H-Town Man]

4 hours ago, mkultra25 said:

 

Ah, the Cineplex Odeon River Oaks Plaza. What a great theater. I remember when it opened to great fanfare, and when it closed in the wake of Loews' bankruptcy. Many fond memories, such as seeing Goodfellas when I was half out of it with what turned out to be a case of the flu.

 

Cineplex Odeon theaters were top-notch facilities in their heyday, with the flagship Spectrum on Augusta being the place to go for unequaled image and sound quality. It was one of the first local venues to install multichannel digital sound, and was one of the last to have 70mm capability. Seeing Lawrence of Arabia in 70mm there was a life-changing experience.  

 

One of the nice things about living in Houston is that you are only three hours away from Austin, where you can watch classic movies on 35mm in a grand old movie palace, The Paramount on Congress. Get a hotel room and make it an overnight getaway. One summer I watched both The Godfather and The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly there, and then turned around and drove home both times. Too bad we destroyed all our palaces.

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by H-Town Man

[VicMan]

Based on the article map, the residential tower will be zoned to Wilson Elementary (not River Oaks Elementary) http://www.houstonisd.org/cms/lib2/TX01001591/Centricity/domain/32468/boundarymaps/Wilson_K8.pdf - of course Lanier and Lamar would be the zoned middle and high schools.

Edited February 25, 2017 by VicMan

[Urbannizer]

Application for approval of demolition includes rendering s of the building which begin on page 404.  

 

http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/Commissions/docs_pdfs/hahc/App_Materials_2017/June_MATERIALS/1958_WGray_River_Oaks_Shopping_Center_Demo_App_Materials.pdf

[Urbannizer]

From the document. 29-stories at 339' feet, approx 11,000 sq feet of retail, eight parking levels with two below ground.

 

 

 

 

 

[KinkaidAlum]

Tower itself is OK. Looks like Hanover Montrose, Hanover Post Oak, and Hanover BLVD Place had a three way and created a baby.

 

I love the River Oaks Shopping Center but this pretty much kills it. Bookends will be this high rise and the abomination Weingarten put of on Shepherd. 

[intencity77]

Nice building but it's ridiculously out of scale with its surroundings. 

[monarch]

^^^ remarkable new edifice.  however, it seems to share certain exterior elements of the HANOVER TOWER at BLVD PLACE as well as the new WILSHIRE TOWER at ROD.  nice to have it in GOING UP!

[Naviguessor]

...and the Mattrose Tower. Which, btw, looks like a mattress. 

[Urbannizer]

1 hour ago, KinkaidAlum said:

Tower itself is OK. Looks like Hanover Montrose, Hanover Post Oak, and Hanover BLVD Place had a three way and created a baby.

 

I love the River Oaks Shopping Center but this pretty much kills it. Bookends will be this high rise and the abomination Weingarten put of on Shepherd. 

 

Funny thing is those were all designed by Solomon Cordwell Buenz. Guess Hanover got Ziegler Cooper to come up with something similar, which is good. Rather see this than the designs they usually gives us for high-rise projects here. 

[Montrose1100]

I like the tower, color scheme, and base.

 

What I don't like is that the beige stone Americas building and the white Barnes & Noble don't really go along with this.

[houstontexasjack]

The tower's name seems to follow a recent pattern for naming towers and midrises for the streets on which they are to be located (e.g. the Southmore, the Isabella).  However, because the Driscoll family helped develop River Oaks, I think Weingarten may have stumbled into a nice historical tie-in with the tower's name.

[Reporter]

11 hours ago, intencity77 said:

Nice building but it's ridiculously out of scale with its surroundings. 

 

That's what they said about Williams tower but they got over it.

[monarch]

^^^ just thought that i'd place it on this page as well....

[Avossos]

I like it. The building next to the grocery is a proven concept.

 

I think the approaching high rises will make the land use dollar$ difficult to work economically in the long term. I hope there is a way to protect this center so it does not bite the dust.

 

 

[Timoric]

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Edited July 11, 2019 by Timoric