GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[wernicke]

The homeless aren't the problem. All large cities have homeless. The lack of downtown residents is the problem.

[LarryDierker]

We should send the homeless to the Woodlands. they're becoming quite the little city nowadays.

[Nick_G]

The homeless aren't the problem. All large cities have homeless. The lack of downtown residents is the problem.

The homeless are a problem. Yes all large cities have homeless but Houston's population is very spread out and the one of the few visible concentrated populations in the city are homeless in downtown. To attract residents to downtown there needs to be far fewer homeless walking about, why would one move from the suburbs into the city if it meant seeing transients walking around every day. They would not and they do not.

I have talked to a good number of people, usually girls, who live in close suburbs like Spring that have never spent any amount of time in the city itself. Warranted or not, they do not feel safe in the city because there are many transients walking about. The female population needs to feel safe and want to hang out in the city. If you think about it how much do guys do in order to attract a girl.. wear certain clothes, drive a certain car, go to certain bars... if guys knew living downtown would attract more girls there would be a lot more people living in downtown.

I live in Uptown with my girlfriend. She could not be happier, she can walk to the Galleria and feel safe doing it. I hate commuting and I love walking, my commute would be much shorter if I lived downtown but am I trading my girlfriend for a short commute? I am not.

"

In New York's metropolitan area, single women outnumbered single men by more than 210,000"

http://www.politicsd...no-1-in-survey/

We can't force women to live in the city, they have to want to live here and we will follow. To do that downtown needs to be prettier and cleaned up more. It has come a long way already, Iv'e been paying attention, but the homeless have got to go.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Nick_G

[RedScare]

Placing girls and prettiness above constitutional rights is impressive. You and your girlfriend should stay in uptown, where attitudes such as yours are rewarded. Downtown will do just fine without you.

[Nick_G]

Placing girls and prettiness above constitutional rights is impressive. You and your girlfriend should stay in uptown, where attitudes such as yours are rewarded. Downtown will do just fine without you.

This discussion is about how to get more foot traffic and people living in downtown and what is preventing it. There are way to move/help homeless without violating their constitutional rights.

You can ignore the issue or you can work to improve it, but the status quo, which has caused this tread to exist is not working.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Nick_G

[RedScare]

This topic has been discussed from time to time on this board. There are numerous groups trying to help the homeless population in Houston. And, then there is the group that simply doesn't want to see them, and believes that we should violate their rights by simply outlawing them. I wonder which group you belong to.

Despite the occasional complaint by those who usually never even venture downtown, the homeless are not the problem. There is a certain group that will always complain that downtown has too many homeless, that it is dirty, that it should look more like master planned communities, that there are too many minorities, that it isn't safe. The fact is, that group can never be pleased, and downtown planners should not even try. Houston Pavilions' problem is the lack of a residential population. The downtown working population leaves at 5 pm. It is not the homeless.

Be a little more creative in your complaints. The homeless angle is tired and played out...and untrue.

[Nick_G]

Redscare

First, as far as homeless treatment, I am not part of the group who just does not want to see them. I am also however not someone who thinks handouts are the correct response either. Don't imply you know who I am, I do not know you but I am not for anarchy as your photo would imply.

Second, you say my opinion can stay in Uptown. I beg to differ, you would like more people in downtown. I am one of the people who wants to live in downtown, wants it to be a thriving environment, and would benefit from living in downtown to reduce my commute. If you look at my other posts in this thread, I was saying that the Pavilion will benefit from the new convention center and that if stores close down they will reopen. If you look at my other posts throughout this forum, I am making suggestions to improve downtown and to bring tourism money in.

We are having a discussion about what causes people not to live there. I am giving you an example of why two people do not live there and that is the lack of feeling safe, whether it is justified or not. Truth be told anything can happen anywhere, it is the illusion of safety that people flock to. You of course can have your opinion that homeless do not cause people not to live downtown. I am saying that it is a big reason I currently do not live there, combined with the lack of downtown patrols and a community feeling.

People should not try to plan to improve downtown? Really??

That statement is ridiculous. Downtown needs to compete with every community in the metro area for residents. The areas that are growing the fastest are areas that are planned. We can plan a downtown area, we need to and actually we are now. If we are being honest, everything in Uptown from the high end shopping to the restaurants to Williams tower should be in downtown but it is not, and the reason is because Houston was not planned to force that.

We have to ask the question why to people leave at 5. That is not the problem, that is the symptom. Downtown needs to compete with every growing metro area within 2 hours of the city in every category, entertainment, shopping, restaurants and yes the illusion of safety.

I gave you a clear reason why i do not live there. I have in other post suggested ways to improve the city and make it more attractive for more people.

What are your ideas?

[Texasota]

Not to butt in, but I'm curious about your statement (addressed to Nick_G) that there is a visibly concentrated homeless population downtown. In my experience it's much more specific that that- there is a visibly concentrated homeless population underneath the overpass separating midtown from downtown. That population (in combination with the intrense smell of urine) creates, for me at least, much more of a barrier around downtown. I am reasonably comfortable riding my bike there, but I would only walk if absolutely necessary. Once I actually get downtown, the homeless population has never seemed particularly large or bothersome, at least compared to other cities I've lived in.

[TheNiche]

People should not try to plan to improve downtown? Really??

That statement is ridiculous. Downtown needs to compete with every community in the metro area for residents. The areas that are growing the fastest are areas that are planned. We can plan a downtown area, we need to and actually we are now.

I find it fascinating how much effort you put into communicating so ineffectively. You state that homelessness is a problem but reject any solution that might address the issue, then claim that "planning" is the root problem and a solution, that downtown is now being planned (which it is, but not in any binding form or fashion, only barely as believable as the mid-century plan that the Gulf Freeway should've been our Uptown), and then you assert normative and unassailable beliefs that downtown is some kind of sacred ground. Everything you've said is baseless.

[Nick_G]

Not to butt in, but I'm curious about your statement (addressed to Nick_G) that there is a visibly concentrated homeless population downtown. In my experience it's much more specific that that- there is a visibly concentrated homeless population underneath the overpass separating midtown from downtown. That population (in combination with the intrense smell of urine) creates, for me at least, much more of a barrier around downtown. I am reasonably comfortable riding my bike there, but I would only walk if absolutely necessary. Once I actually get downtown, the homeless population has never seemed particularly large or bothersome, at least compared to other cities I've lived in.

When I go to downtown to spend time there with my girlfriend it is coming in either two ways. One the long walk from Uptown to downtown going through Memorial Park and Buffalo Bayou park. I know people think I am crazy for doing this but I love being outside and walking in the city. The walk for the most part is actually really very nice and it showcases the great green areas of our city. The other way is by parking in the Medical district where my girlfriend has been working for about 6 months or so and taking the train in, this is also on the weekend.

When walking into the city, the west near Sam Houston Park and northwest corner of the city near the theaters and as far as Frank's pizza are usually just quiet. Although I have had homeless people ask me for change near the pond at Sam Houston park. It is the areas as you get closer to the pavilion where we have had issues. We actually had someone follow us for more then a block as we tried to ignore them telling a story about how they ran out of gas and their mother is in the hospital or something a long those lines. When this is happening and you look around and the number of homeless or transient panhandlers (I can not say for certain they have no homes) are greater then people are around it prevents more people (us) from moving in. If this was a single occasion that is one thing but has not been.

I rarely walk into downtown from midtown but I am aware of the people you are talking about there.

[Nick_G]

I find it fascinating how much effort you put into communicating so ineffectively. You state that homelessness is a problem but reject any solution that might address the issue, then claim that "planning" is the root problem and a solution, that downtown is now being planned (which it is, but not in any binding form or fashion, only barely as believable as the mid-century plan that the Gulf Freeway should've been our Uptown), and then you assert normative and unassailable beliefs that downtown is some kind of sacred ground. Everything you've said is baseless.

How did I reject any solution? I did not do that at all. I rejected Redscare from saying that homelessness (or panhandling) was not a problem.

I said that the city is working on it, which it is, and gave an example of the convention center district plans which I actually posted a link to a few posts back.

Downtown is the center of the city, does this make it sacred ground no, but it is my belief that developments should center around, the center of the city. That at least makes logical sense to me, especially if the train lines that are being built will all in one way or another lead there.

[largeTEXAS]

I agree with Nick_G that downtown has an issue attracting a large segment of Houston's population and visitors in part because of the percieved dominance of the homeless in certain areas.

I don't agree that the City or any other governmental or planning agency has the right, should, or even could do anything directly to remove these people from downtown.

In my opinion, the real issue that many attribute blanketly to homelessness, is actually the continued blight of certain key properties/places and the lack of activity by non-homeless people in these and other certain areas. Renovate or replace derelict properties with well-designed, pedestrian-oriented buildings/spaces and, all-the-sudden, you have nice, active places where homeless don't want to congregate.

The market downtown is moving in that direction, albeit slowly. Abandoned buildings, parking lots, underutilized properties, etc. have and will continue to be replaced by (mostly) better buildings/places.

What the City, planners, and powers that be should and continue to do is add vitality to the public areas like sidewalks, parks, and its properties, to slowly surround and drown out the problem areas with nicer surroundings.

A few other thoughts:

1. Revamp the sign ordinance to allow traditional and electronic billboards and signs in downtown proper. Also allow neon once again.

2. Allow property owners adjacent to proposed rail stops the opportunity to work with the City in designing and paying for rail stops. Certain stops could be built inside or connected to structures like the Houston Shops. You want TOD, then partner with landlords to build it.

3. Give tax incentives to developers/landlords that create public spaces, add public art, add vertical gardens to blank walls and parking garages, and/or do extensive landscaping. Embrace how (sub) tropical Houston is with plants everywhere!

[Nick_G]

I agree with Nick_G that downtown has an issue attracting a large segment of Houston's population and visitors in part because of the percieved dominance of the homeless in certain areas.

I don't agree that the City or any other governmental or planning agency has the right, should, or even could do anything directly to remove these people from downtown.

In my opinion, the real issue that many attribute blanketly to homelessness, is actually the continued blight of certain key properties/places and the lack of activity by non-homeless people in these and other certain areas. Renovate or replace derelict properties with well-designed, pedestrian-oriented buildings/spaces and, all-the-sudden, you have nice, active places where homeless don't want to congregate.

The market downtown is moving in that direction, albeit slowly. Abandoned buildings, parking lots, underutilized properties, etc. have and will continue to be replaced by (mostly) better buildings/places.

What the City, planners, and powers that be should and continue to do is add vitality to the public areas like sidewalks, parks, and its properties, to slowly surround and drown out the problem areas with nicer surroundings.

A few other thoughts:

1. Revamp the sign ordinance to allow traditional and electronic billboards and signs in downtown proper. Also allow neon once again.

2. Allow property owners adjacent to proposed rail stops the opportunity to work with the City in designing and paying for rail stops. Certain stops could be built inside or connected to structures like the Houston Shops. You want TOD, then partner with landlords to build it.

3. Give tax incentives to developers/landlords that create public spaces, add public art, add vertical gardens to blank walls and parking garages, and/or do extensive landscaping. Embrace how (sub) tropical Houston is with plants everywhere!

Well put largeTexas, I agree with you 100% (except about the neon signs but i am not going to split hairs, but ok 98% before someone attacks that)

Most of what you said were points that I was trying to make but you seem to have put them together more eloquently. I did not suggest train development but could not agree more, especially since I view the train lines as the perfect way to avoid drinking and driving.

Reading your post, in case there was any confusion in anyway, I was not saying the planning comity for the convention center district was doing anything to move homeless I was replying to TheNiche's critique one piece at a time, I actually gave no plan to move homeless at all in any post just pointed it out as an issue. I am still not sure why Redscare or TheNiche first reactions were to attack me. The point about the convention center planning was that the city is looking to add attractions, green spaces and make the east side of down town more attractive.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Nick_G

[Texasota]

Nick_G, I think part of your problem was just wording. Honestly, my first reaction to your post was pretty negative as well. Simultaneously talking about homeless people as a problem to be removed AND painting all women as irrationally afraid of them? You apparently know a very different group of women than I do.

On top of that, you said something positive about Uptown. That should be obviously unacceptable.

[Nick_G]

Nick_G, I think part of your problem was just wording. Honestly, my first reaction to your post was pretty negative as well. Simultaneously talking about homeless people as a problem to be removed AND painting all women as irrationally afraid of them? You apparently know a very different group of women than I do.

On top of that, you said something positive about Uptown. That should be obviously unacceptable.

Fair enough, I wanted to get involved in the discussion because I want Houston to develop its central areas to make it pedestrian/rail friendly and at least let off the accelerator on the sprawl. I am new to this forum world so mistakes can be made and I guess I need to work on wording and putting thoughts together in a more formal and less conversational way.

As far as the group of women I know, it is very difficult to get people to downtown with me let alone live there and I am frustrated by this. The frustration (which has been building up for a while) is especially true during baseball season as I love going to games and would like to be able to go out after without having to get in a car first (or ever for that matter).

I wish it was not true but it is.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Nick_G

[samagon]

As there are different parts of Houston that attract different people, there are different parts of downtown, I'd almost call them islands. Getting from one island to another can be, not challenging, but intimidating for the uninitiated.

To me, it appears as though downtown is shifting, albeit slowly. Where the islands were fewer and smaller 10 years ago, they've grown in number and in size. Where 10 years ago there was a small 1 or 2 block area around the baseball stadium where tourists (people who don't work or live around downtown) would feel comfortable, today those tourists should feel comfortable from the baseball stadium over to tundra dome, and up to HP. Over by all of the theaters, I'd say that while it hasn't really grown that much, it has still grown, and connected even with the franks pizza island. There's other areas that have grown up over time, and I'd expect more on the way.

It may not be where you want it today, but it's made great strides in a short time, and will continue to, and shoot, if you look at where it was in the 80s? I remember riding through downtown for the moonlight bicycle ride, the highlight of that ride was getting to stop at the chron building and watch the presses run, but otherwise, it was a wasteland.

As far as the homeless, some of them may be annoying, some of them may need medication, all of them are smelly, but the overwhelming majority are not going to resort to violence. That being said, when on foot, I stay away from the pierce elevated down by Jackson, and I also do not go near Congress and 59.

Edited January 23, 2012 by samagon

[Pleak]

What I find interesting is that the downtown homeless population is apparently SO much more intimidating than the Uptown homeless population. Maybe the Uptown homeless dress better.

For years, I have heard the standard recitals: "I need gas money to get to my dying poppa in East Texas" all around the Galleria area. And the odors are just as "colorful".

Wait at the bus stop with me in front of Neiman's on Post Oak. If you are not upwind, lovely aromas - just like roadside rest stops I remember growing up (before they remodeled them and put in actual septic systems).

Do the Spring Chickees like the Galleria?

[Nick_G]

What I find interesting is that the downtown homeless population is apparently SO much more intimidating than the Uptown homeless population. Maybe the Uptown homeless dress better.

For years, I have heard the standard recitals: "I need gas money to get to my dying poppa in East Texas" all around the Galleria area. And the odors are just as "colorful".

Wait at the bus stop with me in front of Neiman's on Post Oak. If you are not upwind, lovely aromas - just like roadside rest stops I remember growing up (before they remodeled them and put in actual septic systems).

I am not making the rules, just expressing frustration.

The most "famous" homeless man in Uptown has one leg, so not so intimidating. Sit's right over by Neiman's on Post Oak. Some of the others play musical instruments, which I guess also decreases their fear factor.

In all seriousness, there are cops usually standing at that corner of Post Oak in addition to the uptown patrol cars that drive around and I think there are a recognizable 5 to 10 that frequent that area. If you head down Post Oak and into the Uptown Park bars and restaurants you rarely see any and that's where we end up going out.

As for this

Do the Spring Chickees like the Galleria?

have you been there?

Edited January 23, 2012 by Nick_G

[samagon]

I think the farthest I have walked in the Galleria at one time is from my car to the Starbucks, and then to The Container Store, and back to the car. That area is not what I like to call pedestrian friendly. I've been trying to convince the Critical Mass bicycle group to move from downtown to the galleria, if they really want to open some eyes to cycling. Otherwise they're just a group of people riding in a fairly deserted area pissing off the one or two motorists who do happen to be unfortunate enough to be on the same road as they are. That's a different thread though ;-)

In all seriousness, there are cops usually standing at that corner of Post Oak in addition to the uptown patrol cars that drive around and I think there are a recognizable 5 to 10 that frequent that area. If you head down Post Oak and into the Uptown Park bars and restaurants you rarely see any and that's where we end up going out.

This really confuses me, I see way more police presence in midtown and downtown, than I see in the galleria area. It's not atypical on a weekend night to see police on horseback and bicycle roving through downtown, and then patrol cars roving through downtown and midtown too.

I think familiarity with an area really does bring a level of comfort with your surroundings.

If the comparison is being made between the galleria area and downtown for walkability, I can promise you, from my perspective, having worked in the galleria area (worked for a small web design company over on st james place in the late 90s) for 4 years, and then living right outside downtown for 3, downtown is FAR more walkable. if you want to talk about a bicycle in the galleria area? Never.In.Life.

I'd much rather tell a few homeless people, "sorry man, don't carry cash", or "the star of hope is right down there, they can help you" than the persistent threat of a 2 ton death machine being piloted by a texting teen bowling me down. The worst I have to deal with in downtown is someone who isn't familiar with the area driving the wrong way down a one way street.

I say, if you're looking to make the move, do it, don't make excuses for why you don't, or come on over to the east side, the waters warm.

[Texasota]

I ride a bicycle as my primary means of transportation, and I would never seriously consider riding alone into Uptown. Honestly it starts to get sketchy once you get west of Kirby. Honestly I can't think of the last time I needed to go to Uptown though. Possibly to go to REI?

[Nick_G]

I ride a bicycle as my primary means of transportation, and I would never seriously consider riding alone into Uptown. Honestly it starts to get sketchy once you get west of Kirby. Honestly I can't think of the last time I needed to go to Uptown though. Possibly to go to REI?

You didn't make it to uptown.

http://www.uptown-houston.com/images/uploads/FactBook.pdf

map on the 2nd to last page

[Nick_G]

I think the farthest I have walked in the Galleria at one time is from my car to the Starbucks, and then to The Container Store, and back to the car. That area is not what I like to call pedestrian friendly. I've been trying to convince the Critical Mass bicycle group to move from downtown to the galleria, if they really want to open some eyes to cycling. Otherwise they're just a group of people riding in a fairly deserted area pissing off the one or two motorists who do happen to be unfortunate enough to be on the same road as they are. That's a different thread though ;-)

This really confuses me, I see way more police presence in midtown and downtown, than I see in the galleria area. It's not atypical on a weekend night to see police on horseback and bicycle roving through downtown, and then patrol cars roving through downtown and midtown too.

I think familiarity with an area really does bring a level of comfort with your surroundings.

If the comparison is being made between the galleria area and downtown for walkability, I can promise you, from my perspective, having worked in the galleria area (worked for a small web design company over on st james place in the late 90s) for 4 years, and then living right outside downtown for 3, downtown is FAR more walkable. if you want to talk about a bicycle in the galleria area? Never.In.Life.

I'd much rather tell a few homeless people, "sorry man, don't carry cash", or "the star of hope is right down there, they can help you" than the persistent threat of a 2 ton death machine being piloted by a texting teen bowling me down. The worst I have to deal with in downtown is someone who isn't familiar with the area driving the wrong way down a one way street.

I say, if you're looking to make the move, do it, don't make excuses for why you don't, or come on over to the east side, the waters warm.

I never said uptown is more walkable then downtown and i am growing tired of people putting words in my mouth. The one thing I said about walkability in uptown is that is arguably one of the more walkable areas of the city, which i stand by. I walk up and down Sage, Post Oak, to Memorial Park to bars in Uptown Park to the Randalls on San Felipe and to the mall to go shopping. I park my car on the weekend and don't get back in it until I have to commute again on Monday.

To the point about the police, there are a cluster of transients in uptown on the corner of post oak and all I said was there are typically police officers at that same corner.

Things I have said.

I want downtown to be developed and it makes sense to me to develop a central area. I like the trains. i like going to Astros games. I want to be able to walk to bars after Astros games with a group of friends and walk home after. My favorite local pizza is Frank's. My favorite park is Buffalo Bayou Park. I think the convention center district plans are good. I want more green areas in downtown. I would live in downtown if it was more developed and I think that all attractions in uptown which bring people in on the weekends should be in downtown to give the city more life after hours.

The two negative points that everyone seems to be hanging onto, my girlfriend and I get harassed in downtown, which is true (and I am familiar with downtown and I still walk there usually by myself on the weekends) and that I have trouble getting other people to go to downtown with me with is also true.

Is it a sin to want downtown to be more developed and that I would live there if it was?

Edited January 24, 2012 by Nick_G

[infinite_jim]

Get an ugly girlfriend?

j/k, welcome to the forum

[KinkaidAlum]

Homelessness is a problem.

The homeless keeping you from moving downtown is not.

If you really want to move downtown; grow a pair. When they drop, you'll maybe find yourself with a better girlfriend.

[Nick_G]

Homelessness is a problem.

The homeless keeping you from moving downtown is not.

If you really want to move downtown; grow a pair. When they drop, you'll maybe find yourself with a better girlfriend.

Oh that's the solution I've been looking for, how come you took so long to let me know.

You know what, we should put that up on billboards as the new downtown slogan.

[Texasota]

Wow, ok. Yes, I'm familiar with Uptown, and I'm intensely glad that I never have any reason to go there. I stand by my statement that, from a cyclist's perspective, it is simply not well integrated with the city's better neighborhoods. You don't seem to realize that those of who live in Montrose or Midtown live here because we like it here, and the absolute last thing I would want is for my neighborhood to be anything like Uptown.

[largeTEXAS]

samagon, I too have been lobbying Critical Mass to ride through the Galleria area. PM me an let's join forces in persuading them.

How nice would it be to ride with 2,000 other riders down Westheimer to Post Oak, stop for a moment, and then head north on Post Oak!

[Nick_G]

Wow, ok. Yes, I'm familiar with Uptown, and I'm intensely glad that I never have any reason to go there. I stand by my statement that, from a cyclist's perspective, it is simply not well integrated with the city's better neighborhoods. You don't seem to realize that those of who live in Montrose or Midtown live here because we like it here, and the absolute last thing I would want is for my neighborhood to be anything like Uptown.

Showing the map was because you said when you get west of kirby it gets sketchy, yes Uptown is not well integrated into the rest of the city, River Oaks is in the way. River Oaks also blocked the train that was supposed to go right into Uptown. I mentioned in other Posts that I was upset about this because I thought that train would start tying the pieces of the city together.

Rather than me trying to explain myself yet again, could you please tell me where you got the impression that I think the people of Montrose do not like to live in Montrose and the people of Midtown do not like to live in Midtown or that I think negatively of either of those areas.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Nick_G

[Nick_G]

samagon, I too have been lobbying Critical Mass to ride through the Galleria area. PM me an let's join forces in persuading them.

How nice would it be to ride with 2,000 other riders down Westheimer to Post Oak, stop for a moment, and then head north on Post Oak!

The ride would be nicer if you went the route of Buffalo Bayou Park, Memorial Drive into Memorial Park until it hits Woodway, take that and then take Post Oak Ln to (you will come out looking at the future home of BLVD place) you can get on Post Oak Blvd by taking a slight left to the corner. When you hit Post Oak Blvd you can take another left into Uptown Park or take a right past BLVD place and eventually get to Westheimer. If you want to extend the journey a bit you can go west on San Filepe and take another right onto Tanglewood which starts right after Sage. As I have mentioned before I walk the opposite through the city into downtown and it is quite nice.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Nick_G

[RedScare]

I never said uptown is more walkable then downtown and i am growing tired of people putting words in my mouth. The one thing I said about walkability in uptown is that is arguably one of the more walkable areas of the city, which i stand by. I walk up and down Sage, Post Oak, to Memorial Park to bars in Uptown Park to the Randalls on San Felipe and to the mall to go shopping. I park my car on the weekend and don't get back in it until I have to commute again on Monday.

To the point about the police, there are a cluster of transients in uptown on the corner of post oak and all I said was there are typically police officers at that same corner.

Things I have said.

I want downtown to be developed and it makes sense to me to develop a central area. I like the trains. i like going to Astros games. I want to be able to walk to bars after Astros games with a group of friends and walk home after. My favorite local pizza is Frank's. My favorite park is Buffalo Bayou Park. I think the convention center district plans are good. I want more green areas in downtown. I would live in downtown if it was more developed and I think that all attractions in uptown which bring people in on the weekends should be in downtown to give the city more life after hours.

The two negative points that everyone seems to be hanging onto, my girlfriend and I get harassed in downtown, which is true (and I am familiar with downtown and I still walk there usually by myself on the weekends) and that I have trouble getting other people to go to downtown with me with is also true.

Is it a sin to want downtown to be more developed and that I would live there if it was?

Nick,

After several days, you still seem oblivious why so many have "attacked" your posts. I'll do my best to explain without insulting you. You have repeatedly claimed that downtown needs to be "developed", as if the billions of dollars invested in downtown in the last 12 years do not count. You want more parks, even though over $100 million has been spent building or renovating several downtown parks, including Discovery Green, Root, and Market Square. Even Harris County made a park out the jury assembly area by the courthouse complex. You ignore that in the last 12 years, virtually every street and sidewalk in downtown's busiest areas has been repaved, new signage has been installed, and numerous buildings have been renovated.

What seems to jump out of your posts is that you and your girlfriend are bored when you go downtown...except, of course, when strangers talk to you. You mentiuon that your friends don't want to come downtown. But, you often talk of how great uptown is. It pretty much screams at us that you and your girlfriend and friends are not appreciative of old beauty, but are much more impressed with shiny, new things. That is fine. Living in Uptown is the perfect location to experience shiny new things. Downtown is not. Furthermore, downtown will never be. Downtown is 176 years old. Uptown is 40.

Rather than demand that downtown change to suit your tastes, perhaps you should appreciate downtown for what it is. As for the homeless, well, Kinkaid is right. You should grow a pair. Downtown is the safest district in the city. White flight is a well known phenonenon from the 50s through the 80s. The attitudes and fears that caused white flight do not disappear overnight. There is only so much that can be done to assuage the mostly imagined fear of the homeless and other non-professionals you might encounter downtown. Besides, some of enjoy watching the people downtown much more than we do watching people in a suburban mall.

One last thing. The things you appear to be wanting when you say downtown should be "developed" are residences and entertainment to occupy you. I could point out all of the entertainment downtown that you appear to be missing, but I know that what you really want are bars, clubs and restaurants. You should keep in mind that these are private endeavors. The city does not provide them. As such, private individuals must pony up the cash to open and run them. Downtown has competition from several areas, all within a few miles. Midtown, Washington, Montrose, and even East downtown all compete with downtown. They have more residents and lower rents. It is not reasonable to expect these things to jump to a critical mass overnight. This is not the city or downtown's fault. It is just the way the business operates.