GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[infinite_jim]

Yes, Macy's has a garage (and tunnel access to it). It's on the same block with 800 Dallas St. (HCC) and has brown brick cladding with a furnace tower.

Edited December 1, 2011 by infinite_jim

[LarryDierker]

There is free parking in the Macy's garage for the Holiday weekends. And a cool trolley to take you around town.

[arrodiii]

I'm glad they are looking to re-tenant the food store at Main and Lamar

[Talbot]

Whenever I go downtown, I always see heavy police presence, so I am not worried about being down there.

[Daniepwils]

I'm glad they are looking to re-tenant the food store at Main and Lamar

They will need to do a lot of scrubbing at "Piss and Fried Chicken" corner

[TheNiche]

Rut-Row! Houston Pavilions, which took $14.3 milllion in TIRZ money from the City, is now in receivership to a bank that took over a failed bank from receivership.

When will Houston learn, downtown is for office buildings and hotels, not entertainment-driven retail?

To quote myself from November of 2006:

I can't believe that I'm doing this, but it seems like I need to ask a question. One previously asked by Plastic.

Why do we place so much importance on redeveloping downtown Houston? Why are we willing to throw so much money at it? Honestly, for what?

[DrLan34]

looks like scott gertner's is almost ready

[Gary]

Spoke with a source, and Gertners should be open by the end of January. possibly a little before.

[Al Williams]

yeah, they were installing the marble in the bathrooms at Gertner's the last time I borrowed HP's lift- that was about 3 weeks ago

[arrodiii]

An article in this morning's Chronicle is stating that the Pavillions has been taken over by a receiver and could possibly foreclosed on.

http://www.chron.com/business/article/Houston-Pavilions-could-be-headed-to-sale-or-2421353.php

I know that the area is way better with the Pavillions there now but I hardly go there unless I feel like having some drinks and have a game of bowling or to see a show. I also don't know how busy the places get other than lunch. Do you think that they will be foreclosed upon and we may end up like Denver and lose most of our mainstays at the Pavillions?

[TheNiche]

I know that Books-A-Million was struggling as an anchor and basically getting free rent. I have to wonder how well the other stores are doing and whether a new owner would have a tolerance for a legacy of lease concessions.

From the article:

"We have a successful venture," Icken said. "We started with an overarching objective to enhance retailing space in the proximity of Discovery Green, the convention center, and that's been achieved."

No, that's bull. The City wanted a proof of concept. What it proved is that the market fundamentals do not exist for a critical mass of retail in the heart of downtown and along light rail to be successful.

[Houston19514]

An article in this morning's Chronicle is stating that the Pavillions has been taken over by a receiver and could possibly foreclosed on.

http://www.chron.com/business/article/Houston-Pavilions-could-be-headed-to-sale-or-2421353.php

I know that the area is way better with the Pavillions there now but I hardly go there unless I feel like having some drinks and have a game of bowling or to see a show. I also don't know how busy the places get other than lunch. Do you think that they will be foreclosed upon and we may end up like Denver and lose most of our mainstays at the Pavillions?

Foreclosure seems fairly likely. But that does not necessarily mean any of the stores and restaurants go away. Endng up like Denver would be a great thing. Take a look at their tenant list: http://www.denverpavilions.com/shop.php

[arrodiii]

Take a look at their tenant list: http://www.denverpav...ns.com/shop.php

When Denver got hit with the recession, a lot of the tenants in their Pavillions were hit hard and most of the tenants listed are now gone - Coyote Ugly hasn't been in operation for at least two years (maybe three), the United Artists movie theater is barely operating, dont recall Barnes and Noble being there in October when I went.

The thing about their pavillions is that they are right off of the Mall and they have a lot of foot traffic there and can survive off that, whereas we currently don't have the foot traffic. Now, if we had more residential places to live (like they have) then I think we'd be good but unfortunately we don't

[VicMan]

http://www.coyoteuglysaloon.com/denver/ still lists the Denver Pavilions Coyote Ugly as being in operation

Coyote Ugly hasn't been in operation for at least two years (maybe three),

[scarface]

what do you mean ended up like Denver? Denver's never got closed on did it?

Neither establishment (Houston's or Denver's) are exactly racing with people. But one advantage Denver's has is it being surrounded by the buzzing people activity from the restaurants and retailers of the 16th street mall; which was already in place about 16 years before it opened. That sucks that its likely to being foreclosed on.

So i guess there goes the dream of scott gertner's reincarnation of the skybar! Huh? So what do you all think they're going to do with the center?

[Houston19514]

what do you mean ended up like Denver? Denver's never got closed on did it?

Neither establishment (Houston's or Denver's) are exactly racing with people. But one advantage Denver's has is it being surrounded by the buzzing people activity from the restaurants and retailers of the 16th street mall; which was already in place about 16 years before it opened. That sucks that its likely to being foreclosed on.

So i guess there goes the dream of scott gertner's reincarnation of the skybar! Huh? So what do you all think they're going to do with the center?

The center will keep operating. There is zero reason at this point to expect any changes in the plans of Scott Gertner or any other tenant.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Houston19514

[VicMan]

I know that Books-A-Million was struggling as an anchor and basically getting free rent.

Since Borders is gone, how much better do you think Books A Million is doing?

[tierwestah]

Whatever happened to those golden plans to hang bright large signs on H/P? That seemed like it would help people see the establishment better. I never realized how enclosed this place is. It would've been a better idea to have it facing out toward the streets rather than having loading docks facing the street. That was stupid on the developer's part. All I got to say is, I hope Houston19514s right and this doesn't take anything away from what's there currently

[swtsig]

what's the over/under on days before gertner's place closes?

[Daniepwils]

The restaurants and HOB are doing very well. It is just the other stores that aren't doing that great, and lets face it, this place hasn't had any other stores at all, most of it is empty (the retail side). And let’s not forget that over 80% of the office retail is leased out to NRG. It may be foreclosed on, but I don't think anything will change for customers.

I am here every Saturday (I do charity work with PupSquad) and the majority of the foot traffic during the morning and day time hours are for the restaurants and Forever 21, that is pretty much it. Mostly locals and some convention people who are staying at the Marriot hotels next door.

[ricco67]

I always thought that dropping the Hotel element out of this project was a big mistake. The additional traffic from there would have helped out with the foot traffic. Would it have kept it out of financial trouble? Maybe.

[arrodiii]

http://www.coyoteugl...oon.com/denver/ still lists the Denver Pavilions Coyote Ugly as being in operation

You are correct - I thought that they shut down because I didnt see a sign for them when I was there last year and I didnt go by the Pavillions when I was there this past year.

I just hope with the rail extensions that downtown will start to thrive - only time will tell.

Edited December 28, 2011 by arrodiii

[TheNiche]

I just hope with the rail extensions that downtown will start to thrive - only time will tell.

Yeah sure, rail to the barrio will drive sales at Houston Pavilions. Maybe the new owner can generate interest from pawn shop operators and refresquerias, and then strike it rich!

[Pumapayam]

It was a mistake to remove the residential and hotel portion.

I have gone there too, mostly for Barkitecture related events though.

[samagon]

Whatever happened to those golden plans to hang bright large signs on H/P? That seemed like it would help people see the establishment better. I never realized how enclosed this place is. It would've been a better idea to have it facing out toward the streets rather than having loading docks facing the street. That was stupid on the developer's part. All I got to say is, I hope Houston19514s right and this doesn't take anything away from what's there currently

Or at least take a page from the Europeans, put doors on both sides, alien concept, I know, but it seems to work.

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk

[VicMan]

Yeah sure, rail to the barrio will drive sales at Houston Pavilions. Maybe the new owner can generate interest from pawn shop operators and refresquerias, and then strike it rich!

Some rail extensions will be going west, BUT those aren't the ones opening immediately

[TheNiche]

Some rail extensions will be going west, BUT those aren't the ones opening immediately

Those aren't even the ones under construction.

[TheNiche]

It was a mistake to remove the residential and hotel portion.

Its easy to say that in hindsight, but perceptions within the marketplace changed abruptly at various points through the development process. Developers never want to sacrifice any amount of built area (because they're getting a fee from their investors as part of the deal, and the fee is usually based on the cost to build the project), but that is what it took to get the project financed through even the least responsible of the active banks at that time (which has since failed).

The mistake was to build it. But presupposing that you believe that something built is better than nothing built, it was not a mistake to make the sacrifices that they had to.

[Mister X]

I miss those 3 empty parking lots so much. House of Blues, Lucky Strike and those restaurants and shops are a very poor substitute for what was once a hotbed of social activity and life for downtown Houston for 100 years. Thanks Houston Pavilions for ruining downtown forever. If only they had left those parking lots alone another development corporation could have built something better in 40 years. Our grand children deserve so much better.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Mister X

[jgriff]

I miss those 3 empty parking lots so much. House of Blues, Lucky Strike and those restaurants and shops are a very poor substitute for what was once a hotbed of social activity and life for downtown Houston for 100 years. Thanks Houston Pavilions for ruining downtown forever. If only they had left those parking lots alone another development corporation could have built something better in 40 years. Our grand children deserve so much better.

I don't think anyone questions if The Pavillions is better than a parking lot. Is was the development worth all the money we put into it? What benefit have we gotten out of it? Could the money have been put to better use elsewhere? Should handing out money to big business in order to promote economic development in a specific area of town that can't make it on it's own merits be one of the roles of government? There are a lot of people who think it should be.