por favor gracias Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I agree that the current design isn't bad, and I appreciate the different perspectives that some have given us since the "new" rendering came out. That said, I would personally pony up $500 to get the original design, and I don't even make close to six figures. Thanks for the link, largeTEXAS. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largeTEXAS Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Call me an optimist or whatever.But I don't see what continuing to whine and complain about what we can't change is supposed to do other than make our lives further miserable. Promises or not, in reality, Midway owes us nothing. None of us ponied up any $$$ for this so why should any of us expect anything? I'm more inclined to believe Stonian's story because at least it somewhat softens the blow, because happy or not, this is what we're getting.Misery loves company. Am I happy with the new design? He'll no. But what I'm gonna do is kick back with my six pack beer and watch some of you all cry about whats not changing while I rejoice that we're getting a unique hotel to Houston above a mixed used development that Houston has never seen before amist much other construction and development, in a new time that also Houston hasn't seen before. Excited for mediocrity...so Houston If we do not start demanding better from our development community, design professionals, management districts, elected officials, etc...and just "kick back with a six pack," as just about every apathetic Houstonian does, we'll continue to get more of these bland and predictable Hotel Alessandras...and we'll deserve it.  I invite you to attend a development community board meeting in NYC, Chicago, LA, Boston, SF...anywhere good design flourishes, and see how many people "kick back with a six pack. That's precisely why so much Houston architecture and urban development is so underwhelming...no one ever speaks up about it. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monarch Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 No, actually this thread was flushed down the drain when Urbannizer posted the new rendering (thanks Urb ). How in the world did Dallas get inserted into this discussion anyway? (Monarch ? strange dude, but I guess we could use a few more strange characters in the world)  I've never seen so much beachin and complaining over a 20-something story building's redesign in my life. There's at least 10-15 posts over the last couple days repeating the same comments, it's like you guys all just happened to post at the same exact time or didn't care to read that others had already made your point.  Seriously, I appreciate the passion, but the comments about no longer holding Midway in high regard are nothing more than childish temper tantrums. Grow up folks! dude, would you like to really know what is viewed as "strange"... some creep that ventures forth into an ongoing open thread, and starts describing a member that he / she doesn't even know as "strange".  sounds a bit like someone else that we have all become accustomed to upon this forum.  HAIF, harbors some very special people as per all aspects of our greater houston community.  we are here for a certain purpose.... we love our fair city upon the bayou. yes, i am the one that brought forth "dallas" upon our ongoing alessandra discussion, and i meant every word of it.  dallas, and now the wonderful city of austin are now enjoying some of the most gorgeous edifices of hospitality in the south / southwest.  i do not have to love the city of dallas in order to display a certain amount of respect as per it's very progressive accomplishments.  that city up north is just very glamorous! our fair city of houston, is now on it's way in a big texas fashion.  if i may speak for all HAIFER'S here, we were all proud to feast our eyes upon that gorgeous initial rendering / concept of hotel alessandra. i have traveled basically all over the world, lodged at some of the most beautiful hotels on the globe... so i know just what i was speaking of.  this is our time!  houston, has waited long enough... our despair is justified. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
por favor gracias Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Just sent them an email (a nice one) telling them how much I...and others...appreciate their work, and that I would personally donate money towards getting an iconic building like the original rendering suggested here. I know it likely won't mean much or change anything, but it's certainly worth 5 minutes of my time. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
por favor gracias Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 The world is what's "strange" in my eyes...people are just people adapting to an ever changing world and economy. I for one am grateful for having all kinds of different styles/personalities on this board and beyond. Monarch...DUDE...you're one of my personal favorite posters on this site! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largeTEXAS Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Couldn't agree more with por favor gracias and Monarch. To also use the word of one of my favorite posters...DUDES, I don't usually get into this kind of hyperbole, especially on a website like this, but, heck, oh well. We on this board probably represent the most passionate voices on architecture and development Houston has. That's valuable and we should use it.  I find it sad that C2H and others feel such powerlessness and disillusionment as to say that Midway and other developers "owe us nothing." That's simply not true. We are residents, businesspeople, students of this city. We entertain our clients, families, selves here...spend our money, make our lives here. Developers develop the buildings and spaces where we do those things - spend our money and build our lives. They sure as heck owe us, the city, and everyone who makes it possible for them to build and profit from their developments a great deal.  We need to feel more empowered to make changes we'd like to see here. The faster we do, and more vocal we are, the quicker we'll start seeing really awesome s#%t! Developers do take notice of what people say. They are ultra-sensitive to the market and to their friends', neighbors', cousins', sisters' co-workers' input.  On a totally different yet somewhat related topic - I happened to be in a meeting with TXDoT the other day and they have completely reimagined their plans for I-45 and 59 around downtown because of "all the uproar" residents in the surrounding neighborhoods made. It was remarkable to hear how TXDoT has changed their tune and are now considering things we'd only dreamed of a couple of years ago such as tunneling highways and creating parks on top of them. All because of the input people gave them! They actually admitted to that very thing. The only neighborhood that they said didn't create a "big stink" was the Near Northside. So, guess what, no plans to radically change I-10 there. The elevated freeway will likely remain. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monarch Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 simply fabulous insight largeTEXAS! Â but this is why we love you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 So Miss Alessandra started out like Kate Upton, then she went to Chelsea Clinton, and now she's a respectable Kirsten Dunst? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Wha.. Wha.. What??? Tunneling the downtown freeways is being reconsidered?!? Omfg that is some of the best news ivd heard in a while. If that happens the action in downtown will start spreading in all directions! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Huge Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Excited for mediocrity...so Houston If we do not start demanding better from our development community, design professionals, management districts, elected officials, etc...and just "kick back with a six pack," as just about every apathetic Houstonian does, we'll continue to get more of these bland and predictable Hotel Alessandras...and we'll deserve it. I invite you to attend a development community board meeting in NYC, Chicago, LA, Boston, SF...anywhere good design flourishes, and see how many people "kick back with a six pack. That's precisely why so much Houston architecture and urban development is so underwhelming...no one ever speaks up about it. Tell him Monte!Im so tired of the cliché "Oh stop whining and just be happy we're getting anything at all" What a loser mentality. Yea sure, lets just continue to force ourselves to be happy and excited about mediocre crap being thrown up in Houston, while the same old players like New York and Chicago continue to get the architectural gems of the country. But hey, the same old boxy, bland, cookie cutter designs we keep getting in Houston are better than a parking lot right? So whats there to complain about? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2H Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Couldn't agree more with por favor gracias and Monarch. To also use the word of one of my favorite posters...DUDES, I don't usually get into this kind of hyperbole, especially on a website like this, but, heck, oh well. We on this board probably represent the most passionate voices on architecture and development Houston has. That's valuable and we should use it. I find it sad that C2H and others feel such powerlessness and disillusionment as to say that Midway and other developers "owe us nothing." That's simply not true. We are residents, businesspeople, students of this city. We entertain our clients, families, selves here...spend our money, make our lives here. Developers develop the buildings and spaces where we do those things - spend our money and build our lives. They sure as heck owe us, the city, and everyone who makes it possible for them to build and profit from their developments a great deal. We need to feel more empowered to make changes we'd like to see here. The faster we do, and more vocal we are, the quicker we'll start seeing really awesome s#%t! Developers do take notice of what people say. They are ultra-sensitive to the market and to their friends', neighbors', cousins', sisters' co-workers' input. On a totally different yet somewhat related topic - I happened to be in a meeting with TXDoT the other day and they have completely reimagined their plans for I-45 and 59 around downtown because of "all the uproar" residents in the surrounding neighborhoods made. It was remarkable to hear how TXDoT has changed their tune and are now considering things we'd only dreamed of a couple of years ago such as tunneling highways and creating parks on top of them. All because of the input people gave them! They actually admitted to that very thing. The only neighborhood that they said didn't create a "big stink" was the Near Northside. So, guess what, no plans to radically change I-10 there. The elevated freeway will likely remain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fernz Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 getting a unique hotel to Houston above a mixed used development that Houston has never seen beforeEver been to the Galleria?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollusk Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015  The only neighborhood that they said didn't create a "big stink" was the Near Northside. So, guess what, no plans to radically change I-10 there. The elevated freeway will likely remain.  I was at a number of the meetings about 45 and the near Northside.  Crikey, what did they want - actual torches and pitchforks?  Or just a higher income level and/or more Republicans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015  http://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/real-estate/article/Plan-calls-for-tax-dollars-to-help-create-4810595.php?cmpid=atfpm  Going way, way back here, but the very first glimpse of this building seems to be exactly what we ended up with.  1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) *that's* still better than the original renderings for the pavilions hotel. Edited January 25, 2015 by Montrose1100 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2H Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Excited for mediocrity...so HoustonIf we do not start demanding better from our development community, design professionals, management districts, elected officials, etc...and just "kick back with a six pack," as just about every apathetic Houstonian does, we'll continue to get more of these bland and predictable Hotel Alessandras...and we'll deserve it. I invite you to attend a development community board meeting in NYC, Chicago, LA, Boston, SF...anywhere good design flourishes, and see how many people "kick back with a six pack. That's precisely why so much Houston architecture and urban development is so underwhelming...no one ever speaks up about it.LargeTEXAS,I've begun a new approach to life which has helped me keep unnecessary worry and stress down. So I'm sorry by my applying that to this situation has left you with the impression that I'm all for mediocrity In this city.Now you are a poster that I happen to go way back with ever since I first joined on here more than 10 years ago before the old HAIF was hacked. I have always had a high respect for you as a poster, so the last thing I want to do is become your enemy BUT.... you got me all wrong.I remember one of my first posts ever on HAIF was a complaint about the downtown night skyline. It used to depress me to no end to drive from Dallas or Austin which actually seemed like vibrant cities at night with their well lit skylines to come to what was supposed to be Texas's largest city and see its dark, crummy lit skyline with Christmas light bulbs on its rooftops. You may not remember, but it was you who actually teamed up with me on the idea and made up an electronic petition to start in which I even printed out and got some additional signatures. I also wrote letters to the mayor, downtown management, and several others. Shortly after, several building owners decide to do some stupid "lights out" program and now here we are more than a decade later with an even worse lit skyline than before ( although glad to see less Christmas lights)Then we were all worked up with the University light rail lines plans. We had all been waiting patiently for at least a decade. Just when we thought we had gotten rid of that roadblock Tom Delay, here comes somebody else making sure he follows in every print of his footsteps. Again, here we are, the most important line in Houston indefinitely put on hold because of a few residents and some @$$hole who only cares about winning votes for another term. And I'm not even going to get into the Houston Pavilions scrapping the original residential plans and then the Embassy Suites design literally being decapitated.So LargeTEXAS, maybe you're right, I do feel a tad powerless. After a while of disappointments,corrupt politics, I've found that it's easiest to not get so worked up and stressed out about things is best for my OWN sanity. I'm not saying I'm one who gives up, but I have practiced on the positive side of things rather than the negative. Although midway failed us on Alessndra, we still have some other new skyscrapers coming up which offer some pretty interesting designs.Back to not giving up, I still attend city hall meetings, show up at every election time, voice my concerns, etc. Some people will change the world. Maybe you're one of those people and perhaps I am not. I just now am more focused on controlling what I'm able to: my health, my finances, my career, etc. Because at the end of the day, everything we bicker about on these boards comes down to those with $$$$$ in which I have none. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Huge Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 But you still have a voice C2H. They can never take that away from you no matter how much money you have. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtterlyUrban Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Did I just read in C2H's post above that the original Houston Pavillions concept had included a residential component? Wow! Cn anyone enlighten me? What was the original, never built, plan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Did I just read in C2H's post above that the original Houston Pavillions concept had included a residential component? Wow! Cn anyone enlighten me? What was the original, never built, plan?Check out the first couple of pages in the original Houston Pavillions thread.Edit: sorry I'm on my phone or I'd post a link. Edited January 25, 2015 by Montrose1100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtterlyUrban Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Check out the first couple of pages in the original Houston Pavillions thread.Edit: sorry I'm on my phone or I'd post a link.Found them..... Halfway down page 7http://www.houstonarchitecture.com/haif/topic/1851-houston-pavilions-now-green-street/page-7So, let me get this straight: somebody proposed buildings like the renderings and ended up building the current Pavillions? Lord..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guess Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The Houston Cycle.... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
por favor gracias Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 LargeTEXAS, I've begun a new approach to life which has helped me keep unnecessary worry and stress down. So I'm sorry by my applying that to this situation has left you with the impression that I'm all for mediocrity In this city. Now you are a poster that I happen to go way back with ever since I first joined on here more than 10 years ago before the old HAIF was hacked. I have always had a high respect for you as a poster, so the last thing I want to do is become your enemy BUT.... you got me all wrong. I remember one of my first posts ever on HAIF was a complaint about the downtown night skyline. It used to depress me to no end to drive from Dallas or Austin which actually seemed like vibrant cities at night with their well lit skylines to come to what was supposed to be Texas's largest city and see its dark, crummy lit skyline with Christmas light bulbs on its rooftops. You may not remember, but it was you who actually teamed up with me on the idea and made up an electronic petition to start in which I even printed out and got some additional signatures. I also wrote letters to the mayor, downtown management, and several others. Shortly after, several building owners decide to do some stupid "lights out" program and now here we are more than a decade later with an even worse lit skyline than before ( although glad to see less Christmas lights) Then we were all worked up with the University light rail lines plans. We had all been waiting patiently for at least a decade. Just when we thought we had gotten rid of that roadblock Tom Delay, here comes somebody else making sure he follows in every print of his footsteps. Again, here we are, the most important line in Houston indefinitely put on hold because of a few residents and some @$$hole who only cares about winning votes for another term. And I'm not even going to get into the Houston Pavilions scrapping the original residential plans and then the Embassy Suites design literally being decapitated. So LargeTEXAS, maybe you're right, I do feel a tad powerless. After a while of disappointments,corrupt politics, I've found that it's easiest to not get so worked up and stressed out about things is best for my OWN sanity. I'm not saying I'm one who gives up, but I have practiced on the positive side of things rather than the negative. Although midway failed us on Alessndra, we still have some other new skyscrapers coming up which offer some pretty interesting designs. Back to not giving up, I still attend city hall meetings, show up at every election time, voice my concerns, etc. Some people will change the world. Maybe you're one of those people and perhaps I am not. I just now am more focused on controlling what I'm able to: my health, my finances, my career, etc. Because at the end of the day, everything we bicker about on these boards comes down to those with $$$$$ in which I have none. Â It can be very discouraging sometimes when you put a lot of effort into voicing and/or reporting your concerns all for naught. I've been doing that for years reporting bumps and potholes in our roads, traffic light timing, etc....and more often than not, somewhere between my call and the time the workers are on the job, the job description is completely distorted and the end result completely ignores my request. That said, sometimes it does work...and when it does, it's a win. I can tell you with an enormous amount of pride that over the years, I've helped get streets like Hillcroft, Alabama, McGowan, Chimney Rock, Woodway, and many more repaved to a better condition than they were in. Also...I don't know how many people will remember this, but in 2006 when they were doing "the new" West Loop (and yes, although it's slightly "better"...it's still a complete joke), the northbound exit ramp to I-10 was only one lane. That resulted in backups every day to Bissonnet St. for a good 8+ hours of the day, and during rush hour, traffic was backed up around the curve at Braeswood at times. This one lane exit to I-10 setup was supposed to last through Dec. 2006, and it was early February when I noticed (by simply looking...Lord knows I had enough time to check things out) that there was easily enough room for them to just move the concrete barrier from where they had it a couple of yards over to allow room for another lane. So I called TxDot (I'm not going to say any names), and the lead manager of that project was insistent that there "wasn't enough room" even after I basically told him there was, and furthermore, it would only take a weekend at the most to do so. Since I couldn't get any movement on this, I took pictures of the entire area (my brother and I walked in all kinds of mud for the better part of a mile or so on a sunny Sunday morning after a good rain) and went to the Houston Chronicle. I still have the emails to this day, and at first, even Mr. Sallee from the Chronicle was like "I don't see enough room"...and so I had to specifically go over each photo with him to SHOW him that there was. Anyways, about a week or so later, I saw his column in the paper (yes, I still got the paper in 2006)...and sure enough, my squeaky wheel got its grease. Of course, the credit went to the project manager at TxDot who maintained that "there wasn't enough room"...but all that mattered to me was getting that extra lane opened up. And low and behold, TxDot actually went ahead and delivered the new product (which was actually better than my request to simply move the concrete barrier over) with the same concrete surface we're using today...and it only took that weekend. Needless to say, traffic was MUCH better for those 10 or 11 months...no more backups to Bissonnet for pretty much the entire day. Â My point is that yes, it can be and is often deflating to demand something that most people clearly want but do not get...but sometimes they do listen and we do get what we're asking for, and that is a hell of a lot more rewarding than the (often expected) discouragement of nothing being done/things staying the same. Hats off to you for continuing to voice your concerns for elections, city hall meetings, etc....I think we can all agree that politics often leads to more discouragement as time goes by. It sure seems to me like that's just what our "leaders" want...as little interference as possible. It's up to us to make sure we get as much of what we want as we can...it's obvious in many cases that our politicians/developers/etc. aren't going to do that for us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alternativemike Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The Houston Cycle.... Wow. That original plan dissolved drastically. Talk about being watered down... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triton Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Wow. That original plan dissolved drastically. Talk about being watered down...Probably just one of many reasons why it failed and Midway took it over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fernz Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Probably just one of many reasons why it failed and Midway took it over.No...if they had built the original plan, they would've failed more miserably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 If Disneyland had been built with just one ride and a magic castle the size of a 3 bedroom house, it wouldn't have been successful either. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CREguy13 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I could be very wrong.. But I imagine that there is plenty of future growth opportunities for GreenStreet similar to Alessandra. To have that superblock in the heart of downtown and the eventual Dallas/Main retail corridor, just doesn't really make sense to be a low rise. There's too much long-term revenue that would be wasted. Nobody knows how the market will react when all of these apartments come online and the foot traffic increases outside business hours. My guess, is that Midway has their eyes on certain retail pads along Dallas that down the road they would demolish and build upward, while maintaining retail and restaurants on the lower levels. I would think some of the tenants on the Dallas St. side have in their leases (or will in their next renewals) that Midway obtains the right to terminate the lease early or that no more pref. rights on that space will continue after the existing term. Depending on how the downtown living market changes over the next 5-7 years, I think we could see this change with either new Multi-family apartments, condos, or additional hotel components in GreenStreet. Office is less likely with the disconnect to the tunnel system. Again, I could be wrong, but just my two cents on this topic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I showed the side-by-side renderings to my 17 month old daughter and asked her which one she liked better and even she picked out the first design. Scientific? No. But geeeze!Developers, just keep your lame renderings to yourself until ground-breaking so as not to get our hopes up. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timoric Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) - Edited July 8, 2019 by Timoric 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinkaidAlum Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 No...if they had built the original plan, they would've failed more miserably. Serious question, but why do you think that? The original plan called for a mid-range hotel and an apartment tower. Those apartments, judging by the downtown market, would have been full, especially with the loss of the Humble Tower units just down the block. Additionally, the hotel would have beaten the Embassy Suites, Homewood Suites, and Hampton Inn out of the ground. From everything I've heard, the Embassy Suites has been happy with the market. Additionally, I cannot imagine having 200 hotel rooms and 150-200 apartments would have done anything but HELP the rest of the development. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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