Incarnate Word Academy At 609 Crawford St.

[cspwal]

It's going to match the embassy suites?

[Naviguessor]

RIP

[bobruss]

Theres no comparison and when I see this image it almost brings tears to my eyes. This was a major f-up!

Will we ever learn?

[Avossos]

54 minutes ago, bobruss said:

Theres no comparison and when I see this image it almost brings tears to my eyes. This was a major f-up!

Will we ever learn?

 

So so sad. Heartbroken

[Gary]

I haven't been following this, but are you guys telling me that they knocked that beautiful building down, and are putting up the terrible crap (page 3) in it's place?

[Ross]

51 minutes ago, Gary said:

I haven't been following this, but are you guys telling me that they knocked that beautiful building down, and are putting up the terrible crap (page 3) in it's place?

Yes, they replaced a broken down, impossible to renovate building with something that meets their needs.

[Montrose1100]

9 minutes ago, Ross said:

Yes, they replaced a broken down, impossible to renovate building with something that meets their needs.

While that is the reality, still stinks!

[KinkaidAlum]

41 minutes ago, Ross said:

Yes, they replaced a broken down, impossible to renovate building with something that meets their needs.

 

Oh my God, you're right. I didn't realize the school owned that old building. Everyone, stop having an opinion. Shut this message board down. You can only comment on property you own. Yeah, freedom!

[The Pragmatist]

It would be nice if the complex's design didn't scream 1980's war bunker.

[gmac]

2 hours ago, KinkaidAlum said:

 

Oh my God, you're right. I didn't realize the school owned that old building. Everyone, stop having an opinion. Shut this message board down. You can only comment on property you own. Yeah, freedom!

 

My goodness, you're having a hissy fit. Quelle horreur!

 

It's a  v       e        r            y long stretch to come up with what you wrote, based on that simple post.

[Avossos]

4 hours ago, Ross said:

Yes, they replaced a broken down, impossible to renovate building with something that meets their needs.

 

I continue to be astounded by your lack of

value to this board. An architecture board... not a function efficiency forum. ARCHITECTURE... not sure you understand that word. Look it up

[UtterlyUrban]

What does "impossible to renovate" actually mean?

 

 

[bobruss]

I went to map quest and studied a birds-eye view of the  block the church stands on. The footprint Nicholas Clayton's classrooms took up would have fit easily on the north east end of the block just north of the existing part of the school. The new building would have easily fit in that space with room to spare. Then they could have saved the only example of Clayton's work in Houston, saved another historical building which they could have used  for some kind of public outreach center for the church or a more civically minded endeavor. Regardless I think they went with the easiest solution with no concern for civic responsibility.

At a time when Houston needs to save as many of its historic structures as possible its just a shame that they didn't consider other options. The juxtaposition of 19th century architecture with the  buildings of the twentieth and twenty first century helps to ground our city in its history and without these examples it deprives the citizens of the future a sense of what this city looked like. It was reported that it might have cost the nuns $300,000 to renovate the building. I'm sure someone like the Kinders would have helped raise such a small amount of money to help save such a fine example of this early Texas architect. Incarnate Word is a part of this community and the neighborhood it anchors.

The fact of the matter is that it no longer exists and for that I hold the nuns and their architects responsible for not trying harder.

[gmac]

10 hours ago, Avossos said:

 

I continue to be astounded by your lack of

value to this board. An architecture board... not a function efficiency forum. ARCHITECTURE... not sure you understand that word. Look it up

 

Defined as: "the art or practice of designing and constructing buildings."

 

I don't see anything in the dictionary definition that requires historical preservation for something to be "architecture".

[bobruss]

 

1 hour ago, gmac said:

 

Defined as: "the art or practice of designing and constructing buildings."

 

I don't see anything in the dictionary definition that requires historical preservation for something to be "architecture".

 

No it doesn't, but when you consider the church a part of the community and its historical role in the neighborhood and the fact that we are trying to preserve the few  historic buildings left  in downtown it seems that there could have been a little more creative dialogue and perhaps they could have reached out to the community for some thoughts and options instead of just razing a beautiful example of Victorian architecture by a very fine 19th century architect. They should have been better shepherds of this treasure. 

 

I'm sure everyone has had the opportunity to travel to other cities and while touring their downtowns you've  come across a little early 18th or 19th century jewel nestled in between the glistening 50 story glass and steel skyscrapers. Perhaps its been turned into a visitors center or a museum or just a retail space, but I know you all will agree its always like finding a diamond in the rough. We don't have many of those left in Houston unfortunately, and although this one is gone, I think it is extremely important to save the few we have left. Sooner than later this part of downtown will be completely full of new buildings including the block directly across the street. This would have been a wonderful sight to see when walking out of that new space. 

We can always build newer, denser, and taller, but we can never bring back what we destroy. 

[Houston19514]

10 hours ago, bobruss said:

I went to map quest and studied a birds-eye view of the  block the church stands on. The footprint Nicholas Clayton's classrooms took up would have fit easily on the north east end of the block just north of the existing part of the school. The new building would have easily fit in that space with room to spare. Then they could have saved the only example of Clayton's work in Houston, saved another historical building which they could have used  for some kind of public outreach center for the church or a more civically minded endeavor. Regardless I think they went with the easiest solution with no concern for civic responsibility.

At a time when Houston needs to save as many of its historic structures as possible its just a shame that they didn't consider other options. The juxtaposition of 19th century architecture with the  buildings of the twentieth and twenty first century helps to ground our city in its history and without these examples it deprives the citizens of the future a sense of what this city looked like. It was reported that it might have cost the nuns $300,000 to renovate the building. I'm sure someone like the Kinders would have helped raise such a small amount of money to help save such a fine example of this early Texas architect. Incarnate Word is a part of this community and the neighborhood it anchors.

The fact of the matter is that it no longer exists and for that I hold the nuns and their architects responsible for not trying harder.

 

He also designed Annunciation Church

 

[gmac]

1 hour ago, bobruss said:

 

 

No it doesn't, but when you consider the church a part of the community and its historical role in the neighborhood and the fact that we are trying to preserve the few  historic buildings left  in downtown it seems that there could have been a little more creative dialogue and perhaps they could have reached out to the community for some thoughts and options instead of just razing a beautiful example of Victorian architecture by a very fine 19th century architect. They should have been better shepherds of this treasure. 

 

I'm sure everyone has had the opportunity to travel to other cities and while touring their downtowns you've  come across a little early 18th or 19th century jewel nestled in between the glistening 50 story glass and steel skyscrapers. Perhaps its been turned into a visitors center or a museum or just a retail space, but I know you all will agree its always like finding a diamond in the rough. We don't have many of those left in Houston unfortunately, and although this one is gone, I think it is extremely important to save the few we have left. Sooner than later this part of downtown will be completely full of new buildings including the block directly across the street. This would have been a wonderful sight to see when walking out of that new space. 

We can always build newer, denser, and taller, but we can never bring back what we destroy. 

 

I certainly don't disagree with you. I was simply pointing out the error of the quoted post.

[bobruss]

3 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

He also designed Annunciation Church

 

You are absolutely correct, however I was thinking more in the lines of non secular buildings that could be repurposed for multiple uses. 

I believe that church will always be a church. I'm glad we have it. 

Like I said, so as not to beat a dead horse, the building is gone and no amount of hand wringing will bring it back. I was only hoping to make more people aware and concerned with saving what few precious historic buildings we have left and appreciate the importance of saving these buildings for the future of Houston.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2016 by bobruss

[KinkaidAlum]

16 hours ago, gmac said:

 

My goodness, you're having a hissy fit. Quelle horreur!

 

It's a  v       e        r            y long stretch to come up with what you wrote, based on that simple post.

 

Yes, because this is the only thread Ross has popped up in to tell people who appreciate architecture that the property owners have the right to do what they want.

 

Last time I checked, not one single poster said the school shouldn't be allowed to do what it did. Just lots of people wondering why they did what they did. 

Edited October 14, 2016 by KinkaidAlum

[IronTiger]

15 hours ago, UtterlyUrban said:

What does "impossible to renovate" actually mean?

 

 

I would assume the structure is so deteriorated that it would only damage the structure, and it would be uneconomically expensive to save the building, as they would have to go inside, gut the building, maintain (most) of the facade presumably by steel bracers.

 

Back when I went to campus, they had recently rebuilt and renovated the YMCA Building. Turns out that about 7 years prior they had to close off the rear part of the building due to structural concerns, and part of those structural concerns was because it had been damaged by machines doing numerous renovations in the past, and the rear part had been completely rebuilt.

 

Likewise, by the late 1940s, the Executive Mansion portion of the White House was in danger of collapse, essentially being a wooden-structure building from the early 19th century with also some numerous renovations done that compromised the original structure, so during the Truman Administration, they had the building totally gutted and rebuilt from scratch, with the distinct facade held up by bracers. The price when all was said and done? $5 million in 1950 dollars, which is about $50 million today.

 

In addition to being built so you can't take bulldozers and heavy machinery through the back, there was absolutely no way to save the building. The school can't afford it (the White House had nicer fixtures obviously and was slightly larger, but even half of that would be far too much), and there was no way they could get enough support for a third party like the city to help save it...between right-wingers thinking it's a waste of taxpayer money and left-wingers crying about the separation of church and state.

 

The best case scenario would be if they knocked a hole through the front, braced the remaining wall, and rebuilt it like it was. But even then, it would be still visible that it was knocked out, far more expensive than originally planned, and likely smaller than what they wanted, unless they wanted the taller gray building "growing" out of the top or adding three basements (ha!)

[UtterlyUrban]

36 minutes ago, IronTiger said:

I would assume the structure is so deteriorated that it would only damage the structure, and it would be uneconomically expensive......

 

 

 

Well, I have not heard or read that the school building was in this "deteriorated" state.  Was it?  

 

The lancaster hotel used this argument to bulldoze historic buildings.  Trouble is, they were the landowners that let the buildings "deteriorate" in the first place. If this school was so "deteriorated", the only Shepards responsible would be the church.

 

can anyone point me to any report showing that this building was so "deteriorated" as to be "impossible" to renovate?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cspwal]

On 3/18/2015 at 10:33 AM, native_Houstonian said:

I'm an alumna of Incarnate Word and attended the "Farewell" party for the building on Saturday. 

 

When I was in school there in the late 80s, the building was home to approximately 5 sisters.   The last 2 sisters vacated the building sometime last year. Prior to my time at the academy, the building was used for classrooms.  However the inside had been reconfigured so many times in the past century, that there was nothing left from the original architecture.

 

Last fall, we were supposed to have a special dinner in the building for alumnae, but it was cancelled due to the lack of structural integrity of the building.   They said the floor was too uneven, and they were afraid someone would fall. 

 

According to Sr. Lauren Beck, the mosaic tiles on the building will be saved and incorporated into a sign on the existing building.   

 

I, for one, am all for the construction of a new building there.  We have to remember that the school is not there to serve the past, but to educate and serve current and future students.  That is their mission.

 

 

Here's a quote from the begining of the thread.

[mkultra25]

20 hours ago, KinkaidAlum said:

 

Oh my God, you're right. I didn't realize the school owned that old building. Everyone, stop having an opinion. Shut this message board down. You can only comment on property you own. Yeah, freedom!

 

[mkultra25]

1 hour ago, IronTiger said:

Likewise, by the late 1940s, the Executive Mansion portion of the White House was in danger of collapse, essentially being a wooden-structure building from the early 19th century with also some numerous renovations done that compromised the original structure, so during the Truman Administration, they had the building totally gutted and rebuilt from scratch, with the distinct facade held up by bracers. The price when all was said and done? $5 million in 1950 dollars, which is about $50 million today.

 

Photographic evidence of just how significant this reconstruction really was:

 

http://petapixel.com/2013/02/28/photos-of-the-white-house-gutted-during-its-truman-reconstruction/

[Ross]

On 10/13/2016 at 8:08 PM, KinkaidAlum said:

 

Oh my God, you're right. I didn't realize the school owned that old building. Everyone, stop having an opinion. Shut this message board down. You can only comment on property you own. Yeah, freedom!

Awesome bit of over reaction there. Thanks for the laugh.

 

The old building was pretty darned attractive. Sadly, it was not suitable for renovation, due to condition and economics, and, as others have mentioned, no one stepped up to fund a total gut with facade retention, so it got torn down. Would we be better off with the building? Perhaps, but I have been pretty consistent in my belief that it's not up to me to impose my aesthetic preferences on property owners who aren't subject to deed restrictions they voluntarily agreed to when buying the property, or at some later date. That was my main objection to the historic districts, and to any ordinance that imposes requirements that aren't related to public health or life safety of occupants. I've held this view for a long time, going back to the outcry that arose when the County proposed demolition of the Pillot building back in the 80's.

[plumber2]

On 3/30/2015 at 11:02 PM, Triton said:

Here's the right thread....

 

 

Wow, didn't realize how many buildings they have torn down at this block since the 70s.

The other IWA buildings shown in this picture were taken and replaced after the Sisters of the Incarnate Word sold their property in Bellaire on Bissonnet in the early '80's. They used the proceeds of that sale to fund the newer buildings at their downtown campus. They assumed that as enrollment had peeked at Marian High School in the mid 70's and was starting to decline, that there was not a future for parochial higher education in Bellaire. How wrong they were, as the Episcopals are having great success at that location. 

[Gary]

On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 7:23 PM, Ross said:

Yes, they replaced a broken down, impossible to renovate building with something that meets their needs.

Thanks for the sarcasm. It was a simple question regarding a beautiful historic church being razed... Now, please explain how it was "impossible to renovate."

[Ross]

2 hours ago, Gary said:

Thanks for the sarcasm. It was a simple question regarding a beautiful historic church being razed... Now, please explain how it was "impossible to renovate."

They didn't raze the church, it's still there. They razed one of the auxiliary buildings that was structurally unsound, and could not be renovated with the resources available to the nuns that own the place.

 

I suppose that any structure can be renovated, since anything can be done with enough resources. However in the real world, there are limits. A structurally unsound building with an interior layout that isn't amenable to reuse is more likely to be demolished so the organization that owns it can proceed with their mission.

[Gary]

I appreciate the response, and don't need an education in the "real world." Again, I asked a simple question. A simple and informed response was all that was needed. Thanks.

 

[hindesky]