Downtown Night Life Market

[TheNiche]

I was thiking the same thing. The Medical Center has more than that. Isn't it about triple that #?

Yep. About 150k as of the last economic census. Probably more now.

[KinkaidAlum]

I worked in downtown in 1987-1988 and again from 1993-1995.

There were certainly more people on Main St. back then and there were more stores open. Of course, the average person wouldn't want to smell those people (or the bus fumes and pee) and hitting a Main Street store back then was always an adventure.

That said, anyone who thinks downtown is more dead now or a worse place to be today than 15-20 years ago truly doesn't know what they are talking about.

15-20 years ago, there was no Minute Maid Park. There was no Toyota Center. There was no Hobby Center with the famed Artista Restaurant. There was no Bayou Place with a Hard Rock, Verizon Wirless Theater, and Angelika Movie Theater. There was no renovated Buffalo Bayou with Dragon Boat races and Anything that Floats Contest nor any funky blue lighting. There was no Hilton Americas Hotel, Magnolia Hotel, Hotel Icon, Inn at the Ballpark, Alden Hotel, Residence Inn, Club Quarters, Courtyard by Marriott, Crowne Plaza, nor a Holiday Inn Express. After 1984, there were no new office towers like 1000 Main, 717 Texas, 5 Houston Center, METRO Headquarters, or 1500 Louisiana until after the turn of the century. There wasn't an Aquarium with ferris wheel and train ride. The options for places to live were pretty much limited to 2016 Main, Houston House, and JAIL. Now, you can rent at the Hogg Palace, Post Rice, Club Quarters, Kirby, Lofts at the Ballpark, Sabine Street or Humble Tower Apartments. You can buy at the Four Seasons, St Germain, Capitol, Byrds, Hermann, Bayou, Keystone or Franklin Lofts. There are too many new restaurants and bars/clubs to mention. Now, we are building a new park, a new 37 story residential tower, and a 3 block entertainment complex complete with a House of Blues and Lucky Strike.

[musicman]

When retail left Main, so have many of the pedestrians along main. But with the new buildings,etc , the pedestrians are more dispersed.

[devonhart]

Have to respectfully disagree with that observation. In the early 80s (indeed, until the mid-90s) smoking was permitted in most office buildings.

Hmm, maybe it was a computer thing, I worked on the IT floor, large main frames, no smoking allowed on the floor. We also had a break room, no smoking allowed. You'd go by our office building entrance and you'd see plenty of smokers during break.

[devonhart]

That said, anyone who thinks downtown is more dead now or a worse place to be today than 15-20 years ago truly doesn't know what they are talking about.

The options for places to live were pretty much limited to 2016 Main, Houston House . . . There are too many new restaurants and bars/clubs to mention.

That was partly why I was puzzled, I saw several restaurants and a couple converted condo/apartment right on or just off Main. Admittedly, it was well after lunch, just thought there'd be more folks out. I don't know if makes any difference, but I was wrong about the day it was Monday, the day before the George Straight concert.

[icanluv2]

Certainly, downtown is not like it was 15-20yrs ago, but it has fallen well short of expectation. When the construction started back in 99' i believe, there seemed to be much optimism. It seems like it hasn't been much better since. I seemed to enjoy Spy, Cabo, State Bar, etc back then. Many,including myself, stayed away afterwards because of construction and the ensuing traffic from it. I remember going downtown to watch the fireworks show on July 4th several years ago. The traffic that came afterwards leaving downtown was a mess! I just hate the parking around downtown and would rather go to the Galleria or Sugarland at night. It might take another 5-6 years before it really becomes the 'happening place' in order for Houstonians to travel downtown for nightlife.

[Daniepwils]

Is downtown night life fizzling? I rarely stay at my place on the weekends in downtown anymore.

[Vertigo58]

Is downtown night life fizzling? I rarely stay at my place on the weekends in downtown anymore.

I would have to bank on Baseball season around the corner. This is the only reason I honestly think people bother to venture to DT nowadays. Baseball game then go party.

Like one of our other members says we have to just be ourselves. So I wont compare us to boomtowns like SFO or NY. I hear that's 24 hour fun in the mid-cities. We go to Yaaawwwnnnn ...sleep after 2:00pmish.

Edited March 6, 2007 by Vertigo58

[musicman]

i was eating a burger last night at mkt square grill and was talking to a waitress i know. she said that HPD has actively been enforcing the sound ordinance at clubs and even places like market square grill, la carafe, etc because of complaints by downtown residents. A couple that was at party on the plaza came in later and we started talking about this. they said that even at party on the plaza they make them keep the music low to the point of not being able to hear the music.

i can understand about the music levels at a club in the late nite but coming after owners of establishments such as mkt square grill, la carafe, deans, etc is really a bad precedent.

[TJones]

Yep, the Mayor REALLY wants to revitalize downtown. All this, with the Rodeo in town. Good Job !

Edited March 9, 2007 by TJones

[MidtownCoog]

mkt square grill, la carafe, deans, etc

Do they really have anything to worry about? Those places don't really get lousd. Especially la carafe.

This sounds like story for Negative News, I mean The Houston Press.

[what]

once again seems to go with the bland theme exuded by the whole houstondowntown.com group parameters...

[musicman]

Do they really have anything to worry about? Those places don't really get lousd. Especially la carafe.

i agree they don't and that is why this irritates me. on my way back to my truck i ran into carolyn who owns la carafe and warrens and asked her. she said that HPD is now coming by repeatedly and checking the sound levels at both warrens and la carafe which i think is just ridiculous. anyone who's been to the places realizes that warren's, la carafe, etc aren't the type of places that are a problem.

[RedScare]

That is more likely an attempt at not being selective in their enforcement. Everyone knows that Warren's, la carafe and Mkt Square are neither loud nor attracting trouble meakers. However, considering the comments made by the owner of Suede after their bust, it makes sense to check everyone's sound levels, so that when questioned, HPD can claim equal enforcement.

This completely sidesteps the question of which losers moved downtown expecting to enjoy quiet solitude, but, I suppose THAT question belongs on another thread.

[musicman]

This completely sidesteps the question of which losers moved downtown expecting to enjoy quiet solitude, but, I suppose THAT question belongs on another thread.

[MidtownCoog]

What are they really looking for?

Decibels or doobies?

[what]

That is more likely an attempt at not being selective in their enforcement. Everyone knows that Warren's, la carafe and Mkt Square are neither loud nor attracting trouble meakers. However, considering the comments made by the owner of Suede after their bust, it makes sense to check everyone's sound levels, so that when questioned, HPD can claim equal enforcement.

This completely sidesteps the question of which losers moved downtown expecting to enjoy quiet solitude, but, I suppose THAT question belongs on another thread.

Yea who would have thought that promoting downtown to some means having a downtown that has quiet restaurants, bars, and no-shopping. What were those people thinking of... I think the attention should be turned instead away from the shop owners and more to the people riding down the street with their stereos ramped up. those people should get the tickets, not the people who work down there.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

Yea who would have thought that promoting downtown to some means having a downtown that has quiet restaurants, bars, and no-shopping.

Gee...this doesn't sound familiar at all...

Washington Ave and the Montrose maybe?

Back when the Westheimer Street Fest was shut down a number of years back, folks were making the same complaints about new residents changing the character of the neighborhood.

Helps explain the "3rd Ward is not for sale" signs too...

Ehhhh...what would we do if we couldn't complain, right? It's the most basic human right, right?

Edited March 9, 2007 by Original Timmy Chan's

[Vertigo58]

Maybe HPD wants the establishments to become like a church atmosphere, library or a hospital ward?

Edited March 9, 2007 by Vertigo58

[jdbaker]

This completely sidesteps the question of which losers moved downtown expecting to enjoy quiet solitude, but, I suppose THAT question belongs on another thread.

I'll address it here. I live downtown. Before living in Houston, I lived in central DC. I consider myself to have a very high threshold for dealing with noise. I'm fine with the levels of noise typically produced by sirens, gunshots, 3 alarm fires, and 5 am street brawls. I'm confident that neither Warren's nor Market St Grill could produce enough noise to disturb my night even if they wanted to. However, I am not fine with bass that vibrates through several brick walls and into my loft at 3am. Hearing music at 1:00am is fine. Audible noise all night long is not an issue. Feeling my pillow vibrate at 3:00am is where I draw the line.

Edited March 9, 2007 by jdbaker

[DJ V Lawrence]

I'll address it here. I live downtown. Before living in Houston, I lived in central DC. I consider myself to have a very high threshold for dealing with noise. I'm fine with the levels of noise typically produced by sirens, gunshots, 3 alarm fires, and 5 am street brawls. I'm confident that neither Warren's nor Market St Grill could produce enough noise to disturb my night even if they wanted to. However, I am not fine with bass that vibrates through several brick walls and into my loft at 3am. Hearing music at 1:00am is fine. Audible noise all night all night long is not an issue. Feeling my pillow vibrate at 3:00am is where I draw the line.

I don't get it. Houston's pushing for Downtown go get more residential developments, I get that. But if they're pushing for more Downtown businesses, bars, restaurants, clubs, etc, and are pushing for more pedestrian areas day and night with projects like Houston Pavillions, and on top of that have two stadiums in walking distance, won't Downtown get more noisy regardless?

[sevfiv]

^but is the noise coming from establishments or folks passing through? (vehicles)

almost everywhere i've lived in houston, there's the occasional BZZZZ car that annoys everyone (unless you're that lady in talladega nights )

Edited March 9, 2007 by sevfiv

[bach]

I'll address it here. I live downtown. Before living in Houston, I lived in central DC. I consider myself to have a very high threshold for dealing with noise. I'm fine with the levels of noise typically produced by sirens, gunshots, 3 alarm fires, and 5 am street brawls. I'm confident that neither Warren's nor Market St Grill could produce enough noise to disturb my night even if they wanted to. However, I am not fine with bass that vibrates through several brick walls and into my loft at 3am. Hearing music at 1:00am is fine. Audible noise all night all night long is not an issue. Feeling my pillow vibrate at 3:00am is where I draw the line.

Totally agree.

And yes, the rounds are made to check out the neighborhood. And aren't business owners pleased that HPD is around? Unless they're like a certain unnamed establishment with long lines of people but a low level of liquor sales being reported.

Residents get used to -- and embrace -- most noise. Car traffic, trains, people. Bus noise, even if it's the same level or higher than music, is noise that one gets used to. Even yelling outside. But a speaker set outside a club or restaurant blaring is another thing completely.

[musicman]

if i lived in the downtown area of a large city, i would expect noise period.

if i had a business and the police were frequently doing the sound meter tests, it would be frustrating because there are several more important issues that the police could help resolve. i think HPD tends to overreact to complaints such as this which will piss off the good merchants too. if there are specific instances where sound is loud, HPD should act then, not during the day where there is no problem.

Edited March 9, 2007 by musicman

[bach]

if i lived in the downtown area of a large city, i would expect noise period.

if i had a business and the police were frequently doing the sound meter tests, it would be frustrating because there are several more important issues that the police could help resolve. i think HPD tends to overreact to complaints such as this which will piss off the good merchants too. if there are specific instances where sound is loud, HPD should act then, not during the day where there is no problem.

If you had a business and the police were frequently around, I would think you'd be happy, because your customers would feel safe and secure, because there is police presence. And you'd know that obnoxious neighbors would be addressed. Why would you have a problem that they're walking around when there is no problem? Do you just want a reactive HPD? Jeez.

[musicman]

If you had a business and the police were frequently around, I would think you'd be happy, because your customers would feel safe and secure, because there is police presence. And you'd know that obnoxious neighbors would be addressed. Why would you have a problem that they're walking around when there is no problem? Do you just want a reactive HPD? Jeez.

for some businesses, too many police is a hindrance. particularly in the bar scene. being proactive is great. from what the waitress at mkt square said, these decibel checks are quite frequent. i'm sure that the real violators have been reported numerous times and those are the places that they should be proactively monitoring, not the places like mkt square grill, la carafe, etc. carolyn from la carafe/warrens said she felt it is almost harassment and has been complaining to the dist I councilmember carol alvarado.

[ricco67]

That is more likely an attempt at not being selective in their enforcement. Everyone knows that Warren's, la carafe and Mkt Square are neither loud nor attracting trouble meakers. However, considering the comments made by the owner of Suede after their bust, it makes sense to check everyone's sound levels, so that when questioned, HPD can claim equal enforcement.

This completely sidesteps the question of which losers moved downtown expecting to enjoy quiet solitude, but, I suppose THAT question belongs on another thread.

for some businesses, too many police is a hindrance. particularly in the bar scene. being proactive is great. from what the waitress at mkt square said, these decibel checks are quite frequent. i'm sure that the real violators have been reported numerous times and those are the places that they should be proactively monitoring, not the places like mkt square grill, la carafe, etc. carolyn from la carafe/warrens said she felt it is almost harassment and has been complaining to the dist I councilmember carol alvarado.

Redscare is right on this one. The city is merely trying to appear "consistent" in their enforcement over the entire downtown area. yes, some people may be annoyed by this but if the reasoning behind the strict enforcement fails to come into compliance, then it will eventually go away. It's at this point you will see enforcement drop off dramatically.

The same thing had happened in the montrose several years ago. I'm not sure what/who was the target, but it went down after only a couple of months.

[icanluv2]

My wife and I were headed for Vegas from NY when we were grounded in Dallas due to high winds last Saturday. A third of the flights had been cancelled so no Vegas flight till late Monday. We decided to rent a car and visit the folks and siblings in Houston instead.

Had to stop at Walmart to buy a new wardrobe, our luggage managed to get a flight to Vegas, no problem.

Anyway, we parked at Herman Park last Tuesday, and rode the light rail Downtown and walked around. I worked downtown in the early 80s (Superior Oil) when it was a hustle and bustle place, lots of traffic, vehicular and pedestrian, but now it was quite quiet. Obviously, Main Street diverts vehicle traffic away, but why so few people walking around. This was around 2:30 in the afternoon. Except for the former Foley's (now Macey's) there doesn't seem to be much shopping, but I saw several restaurants, though, that weren't around in my day. In the old days, downtown didn't roll up it's sidewalks till after 6.

Anyway, took a look at the former Rice Hotel Lobby which was cool, and noted all the new court buildings and general cleaner look up that way, which used to be quite scuzzy back in the 80s. I'm assuming it's not usually so quiet during the week, that something was up that day.

On baseball(Astros) or basketball(Rockets)nights, pretty crowded, but pretty much slow. It was much better in 6-7 yrs ago than it is now. At least on the weekdays.

[Vertigo58]

On baseball(Astros) or basketball(Rockets)nights, pretty crowded, but pretty much slow. It was much better in 6-7 yrs ago than it is now. At least on the weekdays.

That is TRUE. I worked there (Suite level) for 2 seasons and see a big difference in patronage/attendance. It was great $ while it lasted and I knew it was a 1 time opportunity so I lived for the moment. Still have the cap that says Enron Field on it (scary) but who would have known?

Sticking to the topic though, with the city heading west (Katy) as it has for years I can see DT struggling once again. No one will be happy either way. Hear it everyday.

[what]

That is TRUE. I worked there (Suite level) for 2 seasons and see a big difference in patronage/attendance. It was great $ while it lasted and I knew it was a 1 time opportunity so I lived for the moment. Still have the cap that says Enron Field on it (scary) but who would have known?

Sticking to the topic though, with the city heading west (Katy) as it has for years I can see DT struggling once again. No one will be happy either way. Hear it everyday.

make up your mind. So you are saying that downtown isn't struggling now. I take it based upon your post that downtown is rocking. Are you from a village ? Where is the city heading to Austin or on a trail ride ? I thought everyone was heading to Midtown... You haven't seen anything yet downtown.