Hardy Yards Developments

[Kinglyam]

31 minutes ago, wilcal said:

 

Yeah, ouch. 

 

Also, wow @ the highway expanding all of the way to the railroad tracks. That's like 3X wider than it is currently right there. Really gives some scale. 

 

 

 While I'm sure it's widening (I don't remember the dimensions and am too lazy to look), I'm pretty sure it's not 3x wider. It's just being moved closer to the residential area because some traffic design software somewhere said eliminating the curve would reduce travel times by 0.5 seconds or something...

[wilcal]

40 minutes ago, Kinglyam said:

 While I'm sure it's widening (I don't remember the dimensions and am too lazy to look), I'm pretty sure it's not 3x wider. It's just being moved closer to the residential area because some traffic design software somewhere said eliminating the curve would reduce travel times by 0.5 seconds or something...

 

I am fully aware of how completely unscientific this is, but based on that rendering of it stretching all of the way to the railroad tracks...

 

[Kinglyam]

Dang, you're going to make me do some actual research, aren't you? Here's a screencap from the project's interactive map showing that area. You can see it's nowhere near extending that whole width, nor does it go as close to the Residences as you're showing. The map's measuring tool says the existing freeway is about 250 ft wide, and the new one is about 450 at the widest. So not quite double, which makes sense for cramming two interstates together.

 

 

[wilcal]

Ahhh, I didn't realize that it would be shifting over. Just assumed it would be stretching wider.

 

Thanks for the actual research.

[TOMIKA!]

3 hours ago, Kinglyam said:

Dang, you're going to make me do some actual research, aren't you? Here's a screencap from the project's interactive map showing that area. You can see it's nowhere near extending that whole width, nor does it go as close to the Residences as you're showing. The map's measuring tool says the existing freeway is about 250 ft wide, and the new one is about 450 at the widest. So not quite double, which makes sense for cramming two interstates together.

 

 

This realignment is terrible for the area and I hope this portion gets changed (but, I’m not holding out too much hope). I live just north of here and feel this is not only not justified and a giant waste of taxpayer money, it’s also a social justice issue. Give more land to freeways, suburban commuters, and the rich people downtown by taking away land closer to us brown and black folks. This is a shameful project, especially in 2019 and especially in a city that supposedly prides itself on equality and diversity. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by TOMIKA!

[cspwal]

What's wrong with this section in particular?  It looks to me to be going through parking lots and "Acre in a Box - Houston's first urban based hydroponic farm".  I understand it's pertty bad elsewhere - especially demolishing Clayton homes - but what is wrong with this segment?

[TOMIKA!]

44 minutes ago, cspwal said:

What's wrong with this section in particular?  It looks to me to be going through parking lots and "Acre in a Box - Houston's first urban based hydroponic farm".  I understand it's pertty bad elsewhere - especially demolishing Clayton homes - but what is wrong with this segment?

Let me ask you. If you lived 2 blocks from a freeway and learned the freeway were going to be brought one block closer to your house, would you care? 

[Kinglyam]

51 minutes ago, cspwal said:

What's wrong with this section in particular?  It looks to me to be going through parking lots and "Acre in a Box - Houston's first urban based hydroponic farm".  I understand it's pertty bad elsewhere - especially demolishing Clayton homes - but what is wrong with this segment?

 

Not only is it moving hundreds of feet farther north towards the residential areas, it's moving UP. It has to cross the light rail, which already has to cross the UPRR rail line. The cross-section shows I-10/I-45 is something like 120 feet in the air here. So, nothing to absorb or deflect sound away. Not to mention this area currently has a great downtown view that's going to be a selling point for the apartments they're building right now. But how much value are those apartments (and then, the rest of Hardy Yards) going to have when they are literally in the shadow of a major freeway?

[ZRFkris]

Freeway realignments happen all the time - it’s called development 

[KinkaidAlum]

Freeways are being torn down, removed, and buried in many cities that we aspire to be more like. Cities we compete with for jobs, corporate home and regional offices, and more. It's a quality of life and HEALTH issue. Expanding freeways is a last century solution. Texas needs to learn that expanding freeways does nothing for the people who live adjacent to them in the city. But I suspect the people that run the state don't really care about people who choose to live IN cities. Their constituents are the companies that get the contracts followed by the folks in the burbs.

Edited December 13, 2019 by KinkaidAlum

[TOMIKA!]

2 hours ago, KinkaidAlum said:

Freeways are being torn down, removed, and buried in many cities that we aspire to be more like. Cities we compete with for jobs, corporate home and regional offices, and more. It's a quality of life and HEALTH issue. Expanding freeways is a last century solution. Texas needs to learn that expanding freeways does nothing for the people who live adjacent to them in the city. But I suspect the people that run the state don't really care about people who choose to live IN cities. Their constituents are the companies that get the contracts followed by the folks in the burbs.

Couldn’t agree more! Although, Dallas and Austin are fighting and seemingly beating TxDoT in similar battles. Houston has a weird way of being soooo backwards on this stuff. It’s like we are still living in 1972 sometimes..

[jmitch94]

8 hours ago, TOMIKA! said:

This realignment is terrible for the area

 

 

Change "the area" for Houston and you're 100% correct. 

[Avossos]

Houston will have its 'big dig' when TXDoT digs down the entire East side. It will be a terrible process, but it will be good for the area... in fact, it will be trans-formative. We are lucky they are going to sink the highway instead of have it above ground. Just think our downtown will not be surrounded by above ground freeway lanes. I can't wait.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Avossos

[Kinglyam]

37 minutes ago, Avossos said:

Houston will have its 'big dig' when TXDoT digs down the entire East side. It will be a terrible process, but it will be good for the area... in fact, it will be trans-formative. We are lucky they are going to sink the highway instead of have it above ground. Just think our downtown will not be surrounded by above ground freeway lanes. I can't wait.

 

Um, did you miss my comment just a bit earlier about this new I-10/I-45 being way up in the air along the southern edge of Hardy Yards? I was wrong about the 120 feet. That's I-45 where it crosses Hogan. It's "only" 100 feet in the air right behind the new apartments that are supposed to go up next to the light rail line. You can't see the numbers in the attached cross-section, but you can see the crossing relative to the already-elevated light rail.

 

Edit: I may be reading the fine print wrong. It may only be about 50 feet. I think the 100 feet is MSL, not AGL.

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Kinglyam

[Avossos]

2 minutes ago, Kinglyam said:

 

Um, did you miss my comment just a bit earlier about this new I-10/I-45 being way up in the air along the southern edge of Hardy Yards? I was wrong about the 120 feet. That's I-45 where it crosses Hogan. It's "only" 100 feet in the air right behind the new apartments that are supposed to go up next to the light rail line. You can't see the numbers in the attached cross-section, but you can see the crossing relative to the already-elevated light rail.

 

 

Hi Kinglyam. My comment was about the realignment as a whole, not directly to your comment. Sorry for the confusion.

[Houston19514]

9 hours ago, TOMIKA! said:

Couldn’t agree more! Although, Dallas and Austin are fighting and seemingly beating TxDoT in similar battles. Houston has a weird way of being soooo backwards on this stuff. It’s like we are still living in 1972 sometimes..

 

Where and in what way have either Dallas or Austin been "fighting and seemingly beating TxDoT in similar battles" in any way different from what Houston is doing?

[Houston19514]

12 hours ago, KinkaidAlum said:

Freeways are being torn down, removed, and buried in many cities that we aspire to be more like. Cities we compete with for jobs, corporate home and regional offices, and more. It's a quality of life and HEALTH issue. Expanding freeways is a last century solution.

 

We often see this claim being made, but when one looks into it, one finds scant evidence of any cities that are experiencing growth anything like Houston's who are not expanding freeways.   And, for what it's worth, this plan includes tearing down, removing and burying freeways.  Win Win.

[TOMIKA!]

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Where and in what way have either Dallas or Austin been "fighting and seemingly beating TxDoT in similar battles" in any way different from what Houston is doing?

A couple of articles on how Dallas is pushing back: 

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2019/01/28/dallas-city-hall-beats-back-txdot-s-early-plans-for-i-30-s-1-3-billion-makeover/

 

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2019/01/city-finds-its-voice-pushes-back-on-txdots-awful-i-30-redesign/

 

 

[thedistrict84]

5 hours ago, Avossos said:

Houston will have its 'big dig' when TXDoT digs down the entire East side. It will be a terrible process, but it will be good for the area... in fact, it will be trans-formative. We are lucky they are going to sink the highway instead of have it above ground. Just think our downtown will not be surrounded by above ground freeway lanes. I can't wait.

It will certainly be transformative . . . it will have a significant negative impact on the ongoing development of EaDo. Something on the order of 20 blocks wiped out, including many bars/restaurants that have been there forever like Huynh’s and Kim Son, as well as new spots like Neil’s Bahr. The places that aren’t taken by eminent domain will likely still be affected by traffic and parking issues from the ongoing construction, which will take years to complete for that section.

 

This represents about 10% of the total land area of the EaDo triangle—gone.

 

All of this to help commuters from the suburbs and those traveling through the city—even though thru traffic should be taking the 610 loop, as was originally intended when the interstate system was developed and expanded. And there is no meaningful increase in the number of lanes, just two additional HOV lanes.
 

The only “good” thing about this project is the proposed cap park to connect what’s left of EaDo to GRB, Discovery Green, etc. But, the funding to develop that park is not accounted for in the TXDoT budget and the funding must come from a private source. And, even if the park gets built, there can be no significant construction on top of the cap. 

I fail to see how this is good for the area.

[Houston19514]

17 hours ago, TOMIKA! said:

A couple of articles on how Dallas is pushing back: 

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2019/01/28/dallas-city-hall-beats-back-txdot-s-early-plans-for-i-30-s-1-3-billion-makeover/

 

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2019/01/city-finds-its-voice-pushes-back-on-txdots-awful-i-30-redesign/

 

 

I’m not sure that’s significantly different from the process the Houston project has gone through.  TxDOT has made many changes in response to city and community push back.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Houston19514

[TOMIKA!]

3 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

I’m not sure that’s significantly different from the process the Houston project has gone through.  TxDOT has made many changes hi tiff in response to city and community push back.

It is, actually. City council in Houston has done nothing to push back against TxDOT. No leadership on that front. Karla Cisneros and Amanda Edwards have been the only ones that even ask questions of TxDOT in the public setting. The groundswell opposition in Houston has been mainly citizen groups like Stop TxDOT I-45 and the Make I-45 Better Coalition. Really hoping Isabel Longoria, Letitia Plummer, and some of the other candidates who have spoken out against TxDOT during the campaign trail get elected and speak up against TxDOT on behalf of their constituents. 

[Houston19514]

10 hours ago, TOMIKA! said:

It is, actually. City council in Houston has done nothing to push back against TxDOT. No leadership on that front. Karla Cisneros and Amanda Edwards have been the only ones that even ask questions of TxDOT in the public setting. The groundswell opposition in Houston has been mainly citizen groups like Stop TxDOT I-45 and the Make I-45 Better Coalition. Really hoping Isabel Longoria, Letitia Plummer, and some of the other candidates who have spoken out against TxDOT during the campaign trail get elected and speak up against TxDOT on behalf of their constituents. 

 

I don't care what letterhead was used. The fact is, the City of Houston has indeed "pushed back" on the design in very similar ways.  Note that Dallas City Council has not attempted to stop the I-30 project, only to modify the design.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

15 hours ago, thedistrict84 said:

It will certainly be transformative . . . it will have a significant negative impact on the ongoing development of EaDo. Something on the order of 20 blocks wiped out, including many bars/restaurants that have been there forever like Huynh’s and Kim Son, as well as new spots like Neil’s Bahr. 

 

 

I think it's more like 16 blocks, half of which are surface parking.

 

Funny thing:  freeway opponents often tell us that nothing worthwhile can be developed adjacent to an elevated freeway.  Here, freeway opponents tell us we must not replace an elevated freeway because it would destroy all of the wonderful development adjacent to the elevated freeway.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

15 hours ago, thedistrict84 said:

This represents about 10% of the total land area of the EaDo triangle—gone.

 

 

That's significantly overstated.

[Houston19514]

15 hours ago, thedistrict84 said:

And there is no meaningful increase in the number of lanes, just two additional HOV lanes.
 

 

False.

[thedistrict84]

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

I think it's more like 16 blocks, half of which are surface parking.

 

Funny thing:  freeway opponents often tell us that nothing worthwhile can be developed adjacent to an elevated freeway.  Here, freeway opponents tell us we must not replace an elevated freeway because it would destroy all of the wonderful development adjacent to the elevated freeway.

It’s about 19 or 20 blocks total, all the way to the historic Ford dealership where Tout Suite is. The entire area of EaDo is around 270 blocks, so it’s about 7% of the total land area. My estimate was a bit high, but the blocks being taken are either developed or more prime for future development due to the proximity to downtown. There are only about three or four blocks of surface parking near MMP—certainly not half of the total lots though. 

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

False.

I believe there are only two HOV-type lanes being added to I-45 as an increase from current capacity. One of the main reasons for the reroute given by those that have developed the plans is not the addition of outright capacity but to streamline the exits and other ramps and have traffic flow more smoothly and require less lane changes through that section.

[Houston19514]

52 minutes ago, thedistrict84 said:

It’s about 19 or 20 blocks total, all the way to the historic Ford dealership where Tout Suite is. The entire area of EaDo is around 270 blocks, so it’s about 7% of the total land area. My estimate was a bit high, but the blocks being taken are either developed or more prime for future development due to the proximity to downtown. There are only about three or four blocks of surface parking near MMP—certainly not half of the total lots though. 

I believe there are only two HOV-type lanes being added to I-45 as an increase from current capacity. One of the main reasons for the reroute given by those that have developed the plans is not the addition of outright capacity but to streamline the exits and other ramps and have traffic flow more smoothly and require less lane changes through that section.

 

There are four blocks that are entirely surface parking (or just vacant).  There is only one block that is completely built up.  

All other blocks have substantial amounts of surface parking, most at or above 50% of the block.

 

Your belief about the  project only adding two HOV lanes is just incorrect.  www.ih45northandmore.com

Edited December 14, 2019 by Houston19514

[TOMIKA!]

17 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

I don't care what letterhead was used. The fact is, the City of Houston has indeed "pushed back" on the design in very similar ways.  Note that Dallas City Council has not attempted to stop the I-30 project, only to modify the design.

Tell me who in the “City of Houston” has “pushed back”.

[Houston19514]

10 hours ago, TOMIKA! said:

Tell me who in the “City of Houston” has “pushed back”.

 

The Mayor, the staff.  All have been working closely with TxDOT on this project for years and have caused many changes to the plan.  The City has also led the public outreach/feedback efforts which have also led to many changes to the plan.

[Triton]

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

The Mayor, the staff.  All have been working closely with TxDOT on this project for years and have caused many changes to the plan.  The City has also led the public outreach/feedback efforts which have also led to many changes to the plan.

Yup. I've attended all of the TXDOT meetings and the city has been quite vocal about where they stand. As 19514 said, the city has been the main driving force behind a lot of the improved changes to the plan over what was originally shown by TXDOT. In fact, after more community feedback and with the city's guidance, we're about to get new schematics in the coming days.