GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[lockmat]

I see TV's only helping entice more people to come to. Especially if they show movies and stuff on the TV's.

my question is where are these people going to sit to watch these movies and 'stuff?' It doesn't seem as if a space was created in the plans for this.

I guess it would add a kind of cool dimension. I know citywalk in LA has a giant one, but i didn't think it was all that cool. I may have watched it for a minute and continued on.

[tierwestah]

And my question is, who would want to watch Video Screens facing Dallas (between buildings). I think facing Main St or facing Josephines is a better option. They should be something that people see as they enter the entertainment venue. I hope it happens!

[VelvetJ]

Not to take it off topic too far, but there's nothing wrong with bringing tourists to Houston, is there? If anything, it supplements the economy a little bit. It doesn't hurt.

But I'd agree that we just need to create places for Houstonians, and in turn, people might become attracted to the uniqueness and want to visit as a tourist. But just b/c times square has them doesn't mean that we're not being unique. Almost everything has been done before. It's just that each place puts it's own spin on things, hopefully.

I agree with this. Whenever the subject of tourism and Houston is discussed, there are always those who interpret increased tourism as wanting to turn Houston into Orlando or San Antonio and that is not the objective. Houston is diverisifying it's economy....why can't tourism be one of the spokes in the diversifying wheel? There are other cities, whose "backbone" is not tourism, but they tend to do a much better job in the tourism department and the result is more tourist visit for leisure and leave lots of cash. For example, I saw a article (this was a few years ago and I can no longer recall the source) that showed Dallas, and Atlanta both had a higher percentage of visitors for leisure than Houston in comparison, and neither of those places depend on tourism like say a New Orleans or San Antonio. Houston had SOME, but there was a obvious difference between the three (we seemed to do much better with visitors on business ).

What we offer is of quality, with maybe the exception of the Johnson Space Center, but it is not enough. IMO Houston has not "arrived" in terms of attractions for a city this size. I think many times some Houstonians are so proud of the quality of the Menil, MFAH, The Holocaust Museum, etc., that we believe we are the type of city that can soley depend on those. New York and Paris are the types of cities that can soley depend on it's museums for tourists, though those cities offer much more. But Houston is not one of those types of cities. Variety is the spice of life and what we offer in variety (the zoo, parks, the mall, and restuarants) can be found just about anywhere. Kemah is nice but anyone who has traveled knows there are other places that do the whole "Seaside Village" thing a lot better than Kemah. Anyone who has been to the Kennedy Space Center, especially within the past 2-3 years, knows there is a world of difference between there and our Johnson Space Center. And the Aquarium Downtown is very nice, but it isn't even a aquarium, it's a restuarant.

Of course something is better than nothing, but as I stated, Houston has a way to go in terms of attractions, and what we do offer isn't marketed probaby like it should. The tourism spoke of our diversifying economy could use some help and it could be done without turning into the next Orlando.

By the way, bring on the monitors at the Pavillions. Houston lacks vibrancy and the answer to that isn't necessarily monitors, but they certainly wouldn't hurt.

[Trae]

I agree with some parts of your post. CityPass would not have chosen Houston as their first city in Texas if they didn't think we had enough attractions (now I guess).

When you think tourism in Houston, you have to use the whole metro area (like you would for Dallas and Atlanta). You have the museums, zoo, aquarium, etc., in the Inner Loop. Then you have the Galleria area for shopping (I would say this is a tourist attraction). Southeast of the city, you have the JSC. Thought not upto par with the Kennedy Space Center, I still think it does a good job, and just needs a few more motion rides. You have Kemah in that area, too. Further south is Galveston, with the beach, Moody Gardens, and Schlitterbahn.

In a few years (four or so), you will have EarthQuest, which will be the largest theme park in Texas.

Add those in, and Houston is really onpar with DFW (I would say above it), and is just below Atlanta (for now). Better marketing would help Houston (and not the "My Houston" crap).

[musicman]

Southeast of the city, you have the JSC. Thought not upto par with the Kennedy Space Center, I still think it does a good job, and just needs a few more motion rides.

yeah let's make things worse.

whenever places advertise as "tourist" attractions, things tend to go downhill

Edited May 5, 2008 by musicman

[Trae]

yeah let's make things worse.

whenever places advertise as "tourist" attractions, things tend to go downhill

Like?

[musicman]

Like?

kemah....adding "rides" to the jsc tour, etc. sounds like someone should go to a mall carnival.

[Jax]

I agree that making the city more appealing to tourists is a good idea. That doesn't necessarily mean making Houston a "tourist city", it just means making the city more appealing to outsiders. All of you lifers would be surprised at the number of international visitors I have met (mostly doctors, post docs, interns, residents, grad students, and people who moved here as new graduates for employment) who love where they work (Rice / TMC mostly) but absolutely hate Houston as a whole. It's sad that so many people turn their back on Houston and go elsewhere after they finish their work here because they find other cities so much more appealing. I think that ties in with the tourist concept somewhat.

I know somebody is going to say "we don't need those people always", but I disagree. The more smart educated successful people the city can attract, the better. If the city's only advantage is that housing is cheap, that's often not enough. That might attract people who are looking to save money, but that's about it.

If adding some flashy screens helps make Downtown more interesting to outsiders, I don't see anything wrong with that at all. I definitely think some real shopping options downtown is going to make a big impact, and the more interesting they can make it look to outsiders, the better.

kemah....adding "rides" to the jsc tour, etc. sounds like someone should go to a mall carnival.

What was the JSC like before they added the "rides". Did it really used to be better back in the day? Or was it just the same minus the rides?

[memebag]

What was the JSC like before they added the "rides". Did it really used to be better back in the day? Or was it just the same minus the rides?

JSC was more interesting when we spent more money on space exploration. There wasn't a lot for tourists to do (a movie theater, some space suits, the Saturn V, and some tours), but the work going on there made it more exciting. Space Center Houston is pretty lame compared to an actual Apollo mission.

On luring smart people to stay:

I don't think video screens will attract more smart people. Magpies, maybe, but smart people will probably see through the sizzle. And I don't think the "lifers" who already like Houston should have to pay to lure people who really want to live somewhere else.

Edited May 6, 2008 by memebag

[Jax]

I'm not so sure. Smart people seem to like sizzle. The so called "smart people" I mentioned all seem to like cities like Toronto, San Francisco, Chicago, and New York, LA, Austin - places like that when given the choice. For whatever reason the majority of the outsiders that I meet are turned off by Houston and ready to pack up and leave after 3 or 4 years. I don't think that's a good sign for Houston.

Rather than just saying "let them go live somewhere else", can't you think of any way to improve Houston's image? Or is that impossible?

I'm not sure video screens is the answer, but my point was that making the city more appealing to outsiders is a good thing however you do it. That's why I see the tourism thing working for more than just tourists. Beautifying the city makes it more appealing for tourists but also more appealing for other people as well. Rather than just attracting people who are looking to live cheaply or work for an oil company, it would be nice to attract other types of people to Houston as well...

Edited May 6, 2008 by Jax

[Jax]

JSC was more interesting when we spent more money on space exploration. There wasn't a lot for tourists to do (a movie theater, some space suits, the Saturn V, and some tours), but the work going on there made it more exciting. Space Center Houston is pretty lame compared to an actual Apollo mission.

So it seems the rides didn't ruin the space center, the lack of excitement in the current space program did...

[memebag]

So it seems the rides didn't ruin the space center, the lack of excitement in the current space program did...

Space Center Houston (the tourist trap they opened outside JSC) didn't have "rides" the last time I took my daughter there. Funding cuts made JSC and Clear Lake less exciting. Space Center Houston made it cheesier.

[musicman]

What was the JSC like before they added the "rides". Did it really used to be better back in the day? Or was it just the same minus the rides?

definitely less flashy. you have to remember that it was free before so none of the rides. when space center houston was proposed it sounded great but the implementation sucked.

[GovernorAggie]

Rather than just attracting people who are looking to live cheaply or work for an oil company, it would be nice to attract other types of people to Houston as well...

The best sentence of the entire thread.

[musicman]

I'm not so sure. Smart people seem to like sizzle.

LOL people with ADD need sizzle. I'm not sure any smart people need it.

[RedScare]

definitely less flashy. you have to remember that it was free before so none of the rides. when space center houston was proposed it sounded great but the implementation sucked.

So which ride do you operate at JSC, music?

For whatever reason the majority of the outsiders that I meet are turned off by Houston and ready to pack up and leave after 3 or 4 years. I don't think that's a good sign for Houston.

You might ought to get out and meet some more people. Houston's population has increased 14% since the 2000 Census.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Houston: doomed to fail... since 1836.

Unless the so-called smart people can be made to feel really cool after college.

Makes me giddy to think about the prospects! Show me more. Maybe when we get it together we can be like New Orleans and Miami. Oh, boy!!

People who actually--gasp!--like Houston don't count. It's more important to check in with a group of so-called smart people, who apparently need sizzle, like TV screens along streets, a spot on Real World and a nice writeup in the latest urban snob publication reminding them how coooooool they are.

If not, the city will fail. Fail. FAIIIIIIIL!!

I'd like to thank the spirit of this thread for giving me a new slogan: Houston Is Fail!

Edited May 6, 2008 by The Great Hizzy!

[Trae]

The best sentence of the entire thread.

And that is what it seems like DFW is doing. They attract a lot more people, looking for a different range of jobs (oil, energy, tech, fashion, etc.). Houston needs to find a way to do that. Maybe build up a tech corridor along a freeway somewhere. Entice tech companies to locate offices there. Do something like that. I don't really know.

I guess that is what you get when you have two major cities forming a metro area, instead of just one.

Edited May 6, 2008 by Trae

[musicman]

So which ride do you operate at JSC, music?

it's called the batcave , but isn't open to the public.

[RedScare]

Houston: doomed to fail... since 1836.

No, THIS is the best sentence of the entire thread!

[dbigtex56]

From some of the comments on this thread, one would think that ugliness is Houston's greatest asset, and that it should be jealously guarded.

Believe me, we have enough ugly reserves to last another thousand years. It is not a scarce commodity. What's wrong with having a block or two downtown that looks as if it belongs in a civilized country in the 21st century?

[musicman]

People who actually--gasp!--like Houston don't count. It's more important to check in with a group of so-called smart people, who apparently need sizzle, like TV screens along streets, a spot on Real World and a nice writeup in the latest urban snob publication reminding them how coooooool they are.

you gotta put chuy's or pf chang's in there somewhere. LOL

[The Great Hizzy!]

I like Chuy's for the most part... PF Chang's not so much.

[HtownWxBoy]

I like Chuy's for the most part... PF Chang's not so much.

Had a really bad date at a Chuy's once... been afraid to go back since... ha ha ha... PF Chang's is great!

[Jax]

Unless the so-called smart people can be made to feel really cool after college.

Sorry if my post offended people on here or makes me seem shallow. This isn't about feeling really cool after college, its about the city's image and whether people who visit like the city or not. I know doctors in the medical center doing a residency here but wanting to raise their family somewhere else. That's more than just feeling cool after college. I know a professor who has lived in Houston for 30 years and tells her students stories of how her her kids left Houston as soon as they were on their own because there were nicer places to live and work. That doesn't give the city a very good image.

People who actually--gasp!--like Houston don't count

I know that lots of people like it here. I'm one of them. I'm not saying they don't count. I'm just not talking about them though. I'm talking about visitors. I'm talking about why a better tourism image would help the city.

My main point was this: It seems like it is common for visitors to dislike Houston and that's why I agree that it would be a good thing if Houston had more of a tourist appeal. A bit of flash downtown couldn't hurt anything.

Makes me giddy to think about the prospects! Show me more. Maybe when we get it together we can be like New Orleans and Miami. Oh, boy!!

I'm not saying we should be like New Orleans. I'm trying to point out that in my experience it's more common to meet visitors from outside Texas who dislike the city than who like the city, and I think that is a problem. And I think it can be fixed. I was hoping to hear some ideas rather than just defensiveness. But to be honest, defensiveness was what I expected.

Edited May 6, 2008 by Jax

[Trae]

Take a look at the domestic migration between Houston, Dallas-Fort Worth, and Atlanta. This may explain some of what Jax is talking about:

Houston: http://recenter.tamu.edu/data/popm00/pcbsa26420.html

Dallas-Fort Worth: http://recenter.tamu.edu/data/popm00/pcbsa19100.html

Atlanta: http://recenter.tamu.edu/data/popm00/pcbsa12060.html

[memebag]

Sorry if my post offended people on here or makes me seem shallow. This isn't about feeling really cool after college, its about the city's image and whether people who visit like the city or not.

I think I understand what you're looking for. It isn't shallow, I just don't think it's feasible. Houston is hot in summer and flat all year round. The amount of money it would take to make it as attractive as some the other cities you listed is astronomical, and there's no amount of money that can make Houston as attractive as San Francisco. People with the desire and earning power to live in San Francisco are never going to stay in Houston. Let it go. Houston has other charms and will attract other people, people like us "lifers".

I know doctors in the medical center doing a residency here but wanting to raise their family somewhere else. That's more than just feeling cool after college. I know a professor who has lived in Houston for 30 years and tells her students stories of how her her kids left Houston as soon as they were on their own because there were nicer places to live and work. That doesn't give the city a very good image.

Video screens can't change that. Doctors, as a rule, will not be impressed by them. Video screens will attract primitive peoples who haven't seen flashing, moving lights before. Expect an influx of people from deep in the Amazon rainforest.

[HtownWxBoy]

I think I understand what you're looking for. It isn't shallow, I just don't think it's feasible. Houston is hot in summer and flat all year round. The amount of money it would take to make it as attractive as some the other cities you listed is astronomical, and there's no amount of money that can make Houston as attractive as San Francisco. People with the desire and earning power to live in San Francisco are never going to stay in Houston. Let it go. Houston has other charms and will attract other people, people like us "lifers".

Singapore is hot and humid all year 'round... and so is Hong Kong. I am in no way saying Houston could become like one of those cities, just saying that having heat and humidity a few months out of the year shouldn't be an excuse for not working on improving our city's image.

[memebag]

Singapore is hot and humid all year 'round... and so is Hong Kong. I am in no way saying Houston could become like one of those cities, just saying that having heat and humidity a few months out of the year shouldn't be an excuse for not working on improving our city's image.

So, if you're not saying Houston could become like Singapore or Hong Kong, what are you saying? By adding video screens to the outside of a shopping mall, Houston will become more ... what?

[Jax]

Video screens can't change that. Doctors, as a rule, will not be impressed by them. Video screens will attract primitive peoples who haven't seen flashing, moving lights before. Expect an influx of people from deep in the Amazon rainforest.

I think if you look back you'll see that I said video screens were not the solution. But yes, it would be cool to get the indigenous Amazoneans to visit Houston.

Toronto is as flat as Houston and uncomfortably cold more months than Houston is uncomfortably hot, yet it has appeal. Miami hotter and just as flat and it has appeal (okay so Miami has the ocean). Montreal is even colder than Toronto for even longer (6+ months of uncomfortable cold) and has a few hills (which don't impress me) yet it is considered desirable. I don't know about Chicago but I always considered it flat and cold. Dubai is in the middle of a desert, hotter than Houston and sandy, and it has appeal.

My point is, it isn't about the climate or the flatness as much as it is about how a city is designed and planned. Did I say planned? Now I am in trouble...

Edited May 6, 2008 by Jax