HtownWxBoy Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 FWIW:One crane is down.I thought I noticed that yesterday when I drove by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 from a few mins ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 ^It's hard to believe that we've been discussing this puny thing for nearly 3,000 posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownWxBoy Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 ^It's hard to believe that we've been discussing this puny thing for nearly 3,000 posts.It's an exciting project. :-) If it wasn't Downtown there's no way we would be discussing it that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyEvilTwin Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 ^It's hard to believe that we've been discussing this puny thing for nearly 3,000 posts.For those of us who measure downtown progress in terms of surface parking lot shrinkage, 3 blocks is by no means puny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownWxBoy Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 For those of us who measure downtown progress in terms of surface parking lot shrinkage, 3 blocks is by no means puny! Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 For those of us who measure downtown progress in terms of surface parking lot shrinkage, 3 blocks is by no means puny!And for those of us who measure downtown progress in terms of how little sky I can see from the street, this is puny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownWxBoy Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 And for those of us who measure downtown progress in terms of how little sky I can see from the street, this is puny. picky picky picky he he Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I kind of agree w/ niche, but at the same time, w/ the amount of retail it's bringing, it is a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuroAztlan Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 As an aside, I've met and played a few good games of Risk against one of sons of the Levine (pronounced La-VEEN) family, founders and owners of Family Dollar. Due to his humility and average-guy persona (not to mention his gracious acceptance of world domination at my hands), you wouldn't know the guy was an heir to a multimillionaire. They consider one of my former roommates as one of their own sons.Well god bless the Levines, they've made many a ghetto family happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strickn Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) I understand your [edit: TheNiche] tone, as usual; yet it bears mentioning that one would think that Sixth and Seventh Avenues in Midtown Manhattan would be the most urbane part of the island instead of the least by that measure of progress. Rigidity is just rigidity, and intense concentration of a use can just mean distortively large flows of materials and visitors at certain times of day and vacancy at other nice times of day. Better to have a real neighborhood feel that endures: and all great neighborhoods are puny in your economic standards. The parts of DTH that are heavily developed don't epitomize anything; they're glamour walls that will never be an enduring neighborhood, and any positive development has to work around those blocks rather than, heaven forbid, emulate them. Edited February 29, 2008 by strickn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownWxBoy Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I kind of agree w/ niche, but at the same time, w/ the amount of retail it's bringing, it is a big deal.That's what I am thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChannelTwoNews Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Just some snapshots from earlier today... The block fronting Main Street The second series of skybridges to be installed over Fannin Pavilions Tower Moving the first windows to be installed in the office building Looking back along Dallas Street The block w/ the House of Blues Looking back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) Look at the renderings from post #1, then look at what's been built. That would've been a big deal. This is puny.How much did the City give the developers of HP, again? That was really the only thing that allowed for so little density to have been built here. Not teetering upon the precipice of death, I myself would have rather just patiently let the properties sit as is until market forces dictated that they be properly (i.e. densely) developed. Edited February 29, 2008 by TheNiche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexAmerican_Moose Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 And while were at it, lets throw in a High Times or Smoke n' Toke let's do it, call them up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 It is densely developed. What are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuroAztlan Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 let's do it, call them up! Tu sabes, compa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinkaidAlum Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I imagine he's talking about what upsets me the most too;The developers landed big concessions based upon having retail, entertainment, office space, CONDOS, APARTMENTS and/or a HOTEL.While the retail space is nice, the lack of apartments, a hotel, or condos is a major bummer in my opinion. I am elated to have 3 blocks of surface parking disappear but I get what the Niche is saying, especially in light of what is being built just blocks away and what is coming along in the pipelines...Also, considering that Omni (renovation of the old Sheraton), Embassy Suites, and LaQuinta have all announced plans to enter the downtown market, I don't buy that a hotel couldn't have worked at the Pavilions. I personally feel the developers took the city/county money and ran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) It is densely developed. What are you talking about?Compared to what is nearby, I'd beg to differ. It is insufficiently dense.And while I'm not yet prepared to say that the developers acted in bad faith--remember that when this project was first conceived of, Houston's economy was more lukewarm, so to make it work really did require subsidy--I am prepared to say that our elected officials made a mistake in providing a subsidy for this project in the first place, as well as for not making the funding contingent upon more than just the retail component. Edited February 29, 2008 by TheNiche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister X Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) I admit that Niche and Kinkaid are light years ahead of me as far as knowing how big time developments get built, real estate deals go and so forth, and I have nothing but respect for their opinions, insight, and appreciation for inside info they give us - but IMO, we could have been waiting another 20 years to see these blocks go from being parking lots to having something as cool as HP on them. I may not have another 20 years to wait, so I couldn't be happier to see this development. Scaled down or not. Somebody needed to jump start retail in DT and get the ball rolling. There always could have been something better built, in theory. I have a pretty good imagination too. But at the same time, I don't even want to know how close this project might have come to being cancelled altogether. There were enuf delays just getting this project off the ground to have me plenty worried that I would never see anything but cars on these 3 blocks for the rest of my life. The really good news is that there are dozens of more surface lots downtown for developers to play with. BTW, what was that about 'coming along in the pipelines'? I love it when these guys say things like that. Edited February 29, 2008 by Mister X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 BTW, what was that about 'coming along in the pipelines'? I love it when these guys say things like that. When real estate folks talk about what's "in the pipe", they're talking about what is proposed and under construction that hasn't yet delivered to market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister X Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 When real estate folks talk about what's "in the pipe", they're talking about what is proposed and under construction that hasn't yet delivered to market.O Damn! I was hoping that it meant there were a bunch of other big developments that we haven't heard about yet, that were just about to be publicly announced. I keep hoping that there will be another HP type development built nearby in DT. But I guess, we will probably have to wait until HP proves itself and is an unquestionable success. - at least a year, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 The really good news is that there are dozens of more surface lots downtown for developers to play with.In the words of music, concur. We have so many lots that could be developed dt it's not even funny. Plus, if it ever came to the point where there were no more developable lots, since it's so small, it could be torn down and rebuilt into something more dense. And I don't think we need to worry about dt being w/o developable land in our lifetimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Besides, since the hotel and condo towers were not built with HP, they can take up another surface lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mls1202 Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 There is a saying that "best" can be the enemy of "better". Sometimes focusing on trying to get the best possible outcome can delay getting anything done at all, when merely a "better" option could have been implemented sooner if not immediately. I am in the camp that is glad that HP is there in the reduced form that it is today rather than not having something for another 10 years or so. Both HP and DG are serving as catalysts to surrounding development, and they are anchoring the two ends of a new hotbed of activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 In the words of music, concur. We have so many lots that could be developed dt it's not even funny. Plus, if it ever came to the point where there were no more developable lots, since it's so small, it could be torn down and rebuilt into something more dense. And I don't think we need to worry about dt being w/o developable land in our lifetimes.The enemy is not vacant land. The way that consumption of a finite commodity works is that price rises geometrically as supply diminishes. As that happens, the price puts up incrementally higher barriers to new entry, forcing taller and taller development...but at the same time, that results in much slower development because taller is more expensive. It is statistically unlikely that the finite commodity is ever completely utilized.So IMO the enemy is land price.There is a saying that "best" can be the enemy of "better". Sometimes focusing on trying to get the best possible outcome can delay getting anything done at all, when merely a "better" option could have been implemented sooner if not immediately. I am in the camp that is glad that HP is there in the reduced form that it is today rather than not having something for another 10 years or so. Both HP and DG are serving as catalysts to surrounding development, and they are anchoring the two ends of a new hotbed of activity."Best" accounts for timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSky Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 I've received some scoop. Word on the street is saying that HOB is planning on opening in June/July timeframe ahead of schedule than the rest of HP. I believe it could be true, the exterior of HOB a few days ago, and the inside will probably not take 6-7 months for buildout. Can anyone confirm this rumor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownWxBoy Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 (edited) I've received some scoop. Word on the street is saying that HOB is planning on opening in June/July timeframe ahead of schedule than the rest of HP. I believe it could be true, the exterior of HOB a few days ago, and the inside will probably not take 6-7 months for buildout. Can anyone confirm this rumor?Wow that would be awsome. I noticed the Houston location was added to their website, but it says October '08 opening. We'll see. Edited March 3, 2008 by HtownWxBoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSky Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 New update, they just installed something that looks like the escalators on the first to second floor off of main street at HP. This thing is coming together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midtownuser Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 do escalators work in the rain? how about the ones in las vegas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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