Pedestrian Downtown

[cspwal]

I could see the new south downtown park developing a nice pedestrian pocket, but it has a few things against it - mainly that only 2 retail spots are adjacent to it, and none really face it.  I do wonder why the skyhouse garage retails weren't planned to face each other across Pease street

[Purdueenginerd]

Thought i'd share this book. I burned through it on one flight from Houston to Chicago last weekend without falling asleep. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0865477728?pf_rd_p=183f5289-9dc0-416f-942e-e8f213ef368b&pf_rd_r=ZVY9XHD60ZJT1W7AJ7RB

 

Nonetheless, little dated, but Houston is mentioned a few times, in a negative light. There's some good data points on pedestrian infrastructure and policies to create more walkable neighborhoods. I found the book rather compelling. 

[BeerNut]

On 11/17/2019 at 3:49 PM, Purdueenginerd said:

Thought i'd share this book. I burned through it on one flight from Houston to Chicago last weekend without falling asleep. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0865477728?pf_rd_p=183f5289-9dc0-416f-942e-e8f213ef368b&pf_rd_r=ZVY9XHD60ZJT1W7AJ7RB

 

Nonetheless, little dated, but Houston is mentioned a few times, in a negative light. There's some good data points on pedestrian infrastructure and policies to create more walkable neighborhoods. I found the book rather compelling. 

 

Did the book reference the things mentioned  in this article?https://www.govtech.com/fs/6-Ways-to-Make-a-More-Walkable-Houston.html

[j_cuevas713]

On 11/17/2019 at 3:49 PM, Purdueenginerd said:

Thought i'd share this book. I burned through it on one flight from Houston to Chicago last weekend without falling asleep. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0865477728?pf_rd_p=183f5289-9dc0-416f-942e-e8f213ef368b&pf_rd_r=ZVY9XHD60ZJT1W7AJ7RB

 

Nonetheless, little dated, but Houston is mentioned a few times, in a negative light. There's some good data points on pedestrian infrastructure and policies to create more walkable neighborhoods. I found the book rather compelling. 

Nice just bought it. Looks like a good read. 

[Purdueenginerd]

On 11/18/2019 at 11:30 PM, BeerNut said:

 

Did the book reference the things mentioned  in this article?https://www.govtech.com/fs/6-Ways-to-Make-a-More-Walkable-Houston.html

 

Indeed, a lot of the themes are covered in the book, with the exception of the tunnel system: though I'm not sure I agree with the author in regards to his opinion regarding the tunnel system. 

[Houston19514]

In the "6 Ways to Make a More Walkable Houston" article, Speck says, rightly and obviously, that our 8,000 housing units downtown is not enough.  But then he says that "Most places strive to come as close to a 1:1 ratio as possible". In the context, the 1:1 ratio clearly means 1 housing unit for each job.  But even if he meant 1 resident for every job, is that a rational expectation?  I'm not sure there is a downtown/CBD in America that comes close to meeting that supposed goal.  I don't think Manhattan even comes close.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Houston19514

[TheSirDingle]

4 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

In the "6 Ways to Make a More Walkable Houston" article, Speck says, rightly and obviously, that our 8,000 housing units downtown is not enough.  But then he says that "Most places strive to come as close to a 1:1 ratio as possible". In the context, the 1:1 ratio clearly means 1 housing unit for each job.  But even if he meant 1 resident for every job, is that a rational expectation?  I'm not sure there is a downtown/CBD in America that comes close to meeting that supposed goal.  I don't think Manhattan even comes close.

Imagine damn near 200+k people in Downtown at all times. Not only would the sidewalks be full, but the tunnels would be too. Honestly would probably be the most pedestrian activity in the world, all within a 1.7 square mile area. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by TheSirDingle

[wilcal]

On 11/17/2019 at 3:49 PM, Purdueenginerd said:

Thought i'd share this book. I burned through it on one flight from Houston to Chicago last weekend without falling asleep. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0865477728?pf_rd_p=183f5289-9dc0-416f-942e-e8f213ef368b&pf_rd_r=ZVY9XHD60ZJT1W7AJ7RB

 

Nonetheless, little dated, but Houston is mentioned a few times, in a negative light. There's some good data points on pedestrian infrastructure and policies to create more walkable neighborhoods. I found the book rather compelling. 

 

The book is really quite good! I also highly recommend it. He has a fairly active Twitter account, so if you ever have any questions there's a decent shot that he'll answer. 

 

17 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

In the "6 Ways to Make a More Walkable Houston" article, Speck says, rightly and obviously, that our 8,000 housing units downtown is not enough.  But then he says that "Most places strive to come as close to a 1:1 ratio as possible". In the context, the 1:1 ratio clearly means 1 housing unit for each job.  But even if he meant 1 resident for every job, is that a rational expectation?  I'm not sure there is a downtown/CBD in America that comes close to meeting that supposed goal.  I don't think Manhattan even comes close.

 

Just looked up Manhattan. 3.1 mil workers:1.6 mil residents. And of course they have significant issues with transit with 1.5 million people commuting into Manhattan every day. 

 

I also found this list, which takes some liberties, but finds how many people live in downtowns versus the city and metro populations. No surprise, Houston is one of the lowest in the country of cities with a metro population > 1 million https://iamemenhiser.com/2017/01/08/downtown-residential-population-by-city/

 

If we were to by like:

Chicago 5% - Houston needs 115,000

Seattle 10% - 230,000

Philly 11% - 253,000

Miami 18% - 414,000

Manhattan 50% - 1.15 million

 

This somewhat presents a problem with downtown Houston only having just over 100,000 jobs.

 

15 hours ago, TheSirDingle said:

Imagine damn near 200+k people in Downtown at all times. Not only would the sidewalks be full, but the tunnels would be too. Honestly would probably be the most pedestrian activity in the world, all within a 1.7 square mile area. 

 

Manhattan is 22.82 mi^2, so to match number of residents/jobs per area you would need 121k population and 231k jobs. 

 

Twice as many jobs is reasonable. 10X as many population would be rough. SkyHouse has 336 units. The Marlowe only has 100. Aris Market Square has 274. The Rice 312. You would need a LOT of buildings. Like 10 times as many for each existing and planned high rise. Not sure that will be feasible in our lifetimes. 

[bobruss]

It's probably not, but you have to start somewhere. Until they created the housing incentives a few years ago, there were probably as many street people living downtown as people who paid to live there. The good thing though is that the city realized the shortcomings and did something to jump start the turn around. Look how fast Midtown has exploded. It was a literal ghost town.

[Texasota]

Not a remotely apples to apples comparison. Downtown Houston is extremely small - that link is using "Greater Center City" as downtown Philadelphia, which is bigger than Downtown Houston, Midtown, the Museum District, the Medical Center, and EaDo combined.

[Houston19514]

On 11/21/2019 at 9:25 AM, Texasota said:

Not a remotely apples to apples comparison. Downtown Houston is extremely small - that link is using "Greater Center City" as downtown Philadelphia, which is bigger than Downtown Houston, Midtown, the Museum District, the Medical Center, and EaDo combined.

 

Exactly right.  Chicago and Dallas use expansive definitions of downtown as well. A comparable area for Houston would have to include, at the very least, EADO and Midtown.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Houston19514

[H-Town Man]

SImilarly, Manhattan is a much larger area than the downtown and midtown areas of Manhattan (the business districts). And most of the residents don't live in the business districts.

 

[Purdueenginerd]

I would consider midtown houston to be part of the city center. I know when I lived there I routinely used the light-rail to get to downtown and the med center. I would imagine a not-unsubstantial percentage of midtown residents commute to either downtown or the med center and contribute to the pedestrian traffic of both. If theres going to be signficant residential growth in the city center, Midtown and South Downtown are primed for the most growth, in my opinion. 

[bobruss]

Midtown is the perfect place for growth since land is cheaper and there is much more available. Also as Purdueenginerd said it's right in between the med center and downtown.

If you really want to compare apples to apples, I'd say you'd have to include Midtown, eastern half of Montrose, EADo, and the Med Center as part of downtown. Thats what we all think will eventually happen anyway when the areas merge. Manhattan is approximately 13 miles by 2 miles. It's only six miles from north downtown to the edge of the med center. So it's still  a much smaller area than Manhattan.

[Texasota]

I really don't think Manhattan is a useful comparison. Center City Philly, Chicago, LA? Sure. But Manhattan is genuinely unique and cannot realistically be reproduced. 

 

And that's fine. There only needs to be one Manhattan. I absolutely want Houston to densify substantially but Manhattan is not a useful case study.

[j_cuevas713]

41 minutes ago, Texasota said:

I really don't think Manhattan is a useful comparison. Center City Philly, Chicago, LA? Sure. But Manhattan is genuinely unique and cannot realistically be reproduced. 

 

And that's fine. There only needs to be one Manhattan. I absolutely want Houston to densify substantially but Manhattan is not a useful case study.

I would say closer to Philly. 

[wilcal]

4 hours ago, Texasota said:

Not a remotely apples to apples comparison. Downtown Houston is extremely small - that link is using "Greater Center City" as downtown Philadelphia, which is bigger than Downtown Houston, Midtown, the Museum District, the Medical Center, and EaDo combined.

 

For fun, I drew an area with about the same area as Philly for comparison.

 

 

These are some of the densest areas and Houston and there's probably what, maybe 80k people that live in that box? As low as 50k?

[Purdueenginerd]

5 hours ago, Toopicky said:

 

If you were trying to include the densest population areas you obviously don't know the city well .... in fact you chose some of the least densely populated  areas in town  (downtown, west Eado, Hermann Park and the TMC)  outside of 'refinery row'.  Are you from Houston?

 

This comes off as a little needlessly accusatory, FYI. 

 

Anyway, to settle the population density of Houston here's an interactive map, from 2014. 

 

https://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=85a821d13a4f4502a85f71c4aae8bae8

 

Quote

 

In this map, the yellow areas of highest density range from 30,000 to 150,000 persons per square kilometer.  In those areas, if the people were spread out evenly across the area, there would be just 4 to 9 meters between them.  Very high density areas exceed 7,000 persons per square kilometer.  High density areas exceed 5,200 persons per square kilometer. The last categories break at 3,330 persons per square kilometer, and 1,500 persons per square kilometer.

 

 

[TheSirDingle]

48 minutes ago, Purdueenginerd said:

 

This comes off as a little needlessly accusatory, FYI. 

 

Anyway, to settle the population density of Houston here's an interactive map, from 2014. 

 

https://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=85a821d13a4f4502a85f71c4aae8bae8

 

 

Great resource for population density, but I do have one problem with it. That is the age, while 5 years may not seem like a lot of time for population statistics, for a city growing like Houston it is. I suspect a good amount of inner loop Houston has had a sizable increase in population density. 

For example, Downtown Houston went from only 3800 in 2013, to 8000 in 2018. according to: https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/downtown-houston-experiencing-population-boom/285-549842840
While it's estimated (headcannon) there's around 11k people living in Downtown right now.  Anyway wonder if they have an updated map? 

Edited November 22, 2019 by TheSirDingle

[Moore713]

I just glad we are past the times Downtown had to lie about it population by including the jail population 

[X.R.]

On 11/21/2019 at 8:10 PM, Purdueenginerd said:

 

This comes off as a little needlessly accusatory, FYI. 

 

Anyway, to settle the population density of Houston here's an interactive map, from 2014. 

 

https://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=85a821d13a4f4502a85f71c4aae8bae8

 

 

 

Man, that map really, really hates single lot homes. I checked where my rents live, it doesn't even have a color and its inside beltway 8. I guess I never realized how inefficient those types of developments are. West U and the other more single lot home areas definitely fit the "low" category. Kinda telling that the map loves that part of Montrose and the museum district close to the park.  

 

If they update that map Q2 of 2020, I think Midtown and the whole of Montrose will look very different.

[wilcal]

On 11/21/2019 at 10:18 PM, Toopicky said:

 

If you were trying to include the densest population areas you obviously don't know the city well .... in fact you chose some of the least densely populated  areas in town  (downtown, west Eado, Hermann Park and the TMC)  outside of 'refinery row'.  Are you from Houston?

 

I was specifically using the areas that Texasota said that I quoted them on in my post. 

[Texasota]

Your map made sense to me wilcal. And I say that as a sixth generation Houstonian.

[samagon]

On 11/4/2019 at 12:14 PM, quietstorm said:

The primary pockets in DT that have established pedestrian activity are Discovery Green/Convention Center, Main Street (i.e., JW Marriott/Finn Hall), and Market Square Park (i.e., Niko-Nikos/Franks/Barnaby's).  

 

Where do you see the next DT "pedestrian pocket" evolving?

 

in and around Jones Plaza always has pedestrian traffic, but it has always had pedestrians. and they are fundamentally different than the pedestrian traffic of which you are referencing, typically, they are pedesting from their car to a show.

[jsabo]

So nice to see what the city has accomplished since I've been away. Can't wait to visit in early March.

[jermh]

These popped up over the weekend on Travis next to The Rice, Market Square Park, and Bayou Lofts. From what I can find, they are newly designated drop-offs for rideshares (Uber, Lyft, etc.), which will be interesting to see how this affects foot traffic near them on the weekends and a line of cars trying to drop/pickup at these locations.

[jermh]

It looks like they added some more official signage that will stay after these cardboard poles go away.

[wilcal]

I'm a big fan of doing the drop off zones. As curb space becomes more limited, commercial zones like this are vital. Nice to see they are sticking with it. 

[Brooklyn173]

Probably the best/easiest/safest way to serve pedestrians in Houston is to not close both sides of the street to pedestrians. Capital at Bagby on July 18. 2020.

 

[jermh]

Idea to rescue bars, restaurants in downtown Houston would put customers on the street

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/transportation/article/downtown-Houston-bars-restaurants-street-customers-15443004.php

 

I hope this actually happens even if it's only temporary. It would be interesting to see Main as a pedestrian/bike only thorough fair, but I predict that specific section of Main St. is going to have a problem with homeless people harassing patrons. I'm not sure if there has been an increase in homeless population since COVID, or there's just less of a buffer since there are less people Downtown in general right now. I have a lot more daily interactions walking around that area, and people are way more aggressive. It's equal parts heartbreaking and frustrating because there isn't a easy cookie-cutter to help everyone who has found themselves homeless. 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by jermh