METRO Next - 2040 Vision

[wilcal]

11 minutes ago, X.R. said:

It makes sense, and I wouldn't be surprised if its because of pressure from entities within Uptown wanting to maximize the return on the Uptown BRT system. Its stupidly nice and while people are still slowing going back to normal why not begin the project. I've taken the BRT a handful of times, mostly for novelty and I'm near a stop, and I still don't know what I'm supposed to do with it unless I'm parking at my work and wanting to enjoy the galleria area.

Connect it to Wheeler though, and ooooo boy. You know how many people could go carless to work? Or go carless to the galleria on the weekend and enjoy themselves? I would bet a lot, a looot of money that businesses would see a crazy boon. Edit: also, housing in the area isn't gonna get any cheaper and this allows the peons like me to live elsewhere and maybe minimize car costs and still work in the galleria area.

I completely agree, and it is actually one of the reasons why I recently bought a place in Eastwood near where this line would have a mini transit center to connect the Green Line and the University BRT. It is going to be 15-30 minutes away from the 3 largest job centers (downtown, med center, and uptown), 3 major universities, and Hobby all via mass transit. 

Would be really nice to be able to not have to worry about what traffic is like on 59 to go Uptown or wherever else. 

[Texasota]

https://ridemetro.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?view_id=5&clip_id=2141&meta_id=53819

Also a rendering of a potential Memorial Park station on the Inner Katy BRT!

[wilcal]

Here is the rendering. Looks great!

 

An actual timeline of the Inner Katy BRT, too. 

[BeerNut]

11 hours ago, wilcal said:

I completely agree, and it is actually one of the reasons why I recently bought a place in Eastwood near where this line would have a mini transit center to connect the Green Line and the University BRT. It is going to be 15-30 minutes away from the 3 largest job centers (downtown, med center, and uptown), 3 major universities, and Hobby all via mass transit. 

Would be really nice to be able to not have to worry about what traffic is like on 59 to go Uptown or wherever else. 

I'm also looking forward to the BRT stop near me.  Two stops to Red Line and four to Purple.

[august948]

Does anyone know if bicycles are allowed on the brt (current or planned)?

[wilcal]

8 hours ago, august948 said:

Does anyone know if bicycles are allowed on the brt (current or planned)?

Yes, and you bring them on with you just like the light rail. 

[samagon]

11 hours ago, BeerNut said:

I'm also looking forward to the BRT stop near me.  Two stops to Red Line and four to Purple.

the BRT station at east side transit will be great! too bad I've moved about a mile down the road and I'm not in Broadmoor any longer!

well, I guess it's good, I expect the construction for this project is going to take way longer than it should to complete. especially as it runs under 45 where there is already the grade crossing for spur 5 and a railroad. it will be interesting to see how they shoehorn everything within the existing ROW, or are they going to reconfigure that whole interchange?

 

[wilcal]

5 minutes ago, samagon said:

the BRT station at east side transit will be great! too bad I've moved about a mile down the road and I'm not in Broadmoor any longer!

well, I guess it's good, I expect the construction for this project is going to take way longer than it should to complete. especially as it runs under 45 where there is already the grade crossing for spur 5 and a railroad. it will be interesting to see how they shoehorn everything within the existing ROW, or are they going to reconfigure that whole interchange?

 

 

I'm also interested to see how they are going to manage the rail crossing just south of Harrisburg. I'm guessing that they won't do a under or overpass or anything, so will just have to deal with the trains potentially. 

Where/when is that graphic from? I don't remember seeing that angle. 

[samagon]

22 hours ago, Texasota said:

https://ridemetro.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?view_id=5&clip_id=2141&meta_id=53819

Also a rendering of a potential Memorial Park station on the Inner Katy BRT!

this is where I found that photo, you have to scroll down to page 66 to see the University Line stuff.

27 minutes ago, wilcal said:

I'm also interested to see how they are going to manage the rail crossing just south of Harrisburg. I'm guessing that they won't do a under or overpass or anything, so will just have to deal with the trains potentially. 

Where/when is that graphic from? I don't remember seeing that angle. 

I didn't even think of that. as close as this rail line is to Harrisburg, I don't think they can do a grade separation easily.

further, doing grade separation on this BRT would really do some damage to the surrounding neighborhoods. grade separation for the rail line (doing a trench like they have on that one freight line coming through LA) would be the best way to add the BRT and have grade separation with the rail, and not interfere with the neighborhood. but I don't see the rail agreeing to do that. (thinking of this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alameda_Corridor)

Edited May 26, 2021 by samagon

[X.R.]

If y'all read Dug's article about the BRT line he mentions how the University line met resistance from those residents "west of Shepard" which eventually derailed ()the development. I can understand these detractors are a lot of people with money, but was that all of the opposition? I know Culberson was a naughty boy, so was it him and those residents?

I was thinking about why now, like why did Metro feel these two particular BRT lines were the ones to push to get done (outside of the mandate by the voters). And I really think a good deal of it is Rice and their development around Wheeler. If it was still the old Sears, the Uptown development folks prolly wouldn't be too anxious to get BRT done from this direction (sorry Eastenders). But if Rice's development is at least partially successful (and it already is in terms of attracting tenants and Greentown Labs), that's a lot of potential spending power. Plus Rice is marketing this as a more walkable development with potential residents and users less likely to use cars; so they sure as hell want this.  Just saying, I think there is now a lot of synergy between Uptown and Midtown and the East End that may not have been there even 5 years ago. And I'm happy for all the East End homies too 🥳

Edited May 26, 2021 by X.R.

[samagon]

if I remember correctly, it was specifically the Afton Oaks people who stopped it in its tracks (). well, them and Culberson. 

No offense taken, that Rice campus really lifts that area and makes it more desirable. Rice making that investment in the area, I'm sure, prompted Metro to evaluate who goes next.

[HouTXRanger]

1 hour ago, X.R. said:

I was thinking about why now, like why did Metro feel these two particular BRT lines were the ones to push to get done (outside of the mandate by the voters).

These two lines, especially Richmond, are the most important rapid transit lines in the city after the Red line. Thanks to Culberson et. al, our city has lacked an east-west rapid transit line to link our 3 largest job centers: downtown, galleria, and med center. The lack of a Richmond line to link our rail to the silver line is especially crippling. This is basically the second major step towards Houston having an actual viable regional public transit system.

Also, I believe the Katy BRT is getting lots of money from TXDOT, so they want to get that going while they have the funds. I think that's an oversimplification of the two lines, but feel free to add in if anyone else knows more.

[BeerNut]

1 hour ago, X.R. said:

I was thinking about why now, like why did Metro feel these two particular BRT lines were the ones to push to get done (outside of the mandate by the voters). And I really think a good deal of it is Rice and their development around Wheeler. If it was still the old Sears, the Uptown development folks prolly wouldn't be too anxious to get BRT done from this direction (sorry Eastenders). 

Isn't TXDOT moving forward to start on the segment near the Innovation District before others?  

[samagon]

15 hours ago, BeerNut said:

Isn't TXDOT moving forward to start on the segment near the Innovation District before others?  

that's what I've heard, but I believe that the lawsuit, and the stop order from USDOT basically stops everything until it's hashed out.

[Montrose1100]

On 5/25/2021 at 11:05 AM, wilcal said:

I completely agree, and it is actually one of the reasons why I recently bought a place in Eastwood near where this line would have a mini transit center to connect the Green Line and the University BRT. It is going to be 15-30 minutes away from the 3 largest job centers (downtown, med center, and uptown), 3 major universities, and Hobby all via mass transit. 

Would be really nice to be able to not have to worry about what traffic is like on 59 to go Uptown or wherever else. 

I really hope the BRT helps cut down transit time from our hood to the TMC (by avoiding Downtown to connect to the Red Line). It's currently +45 minutes to get there door to door. 

[wilcal]

5 minutes ago, Montrose1100 said:

I really hope the BRT helps cut down transit time from our hood to the TMC (by avoiding Downtown to connect to the Red Line). It's currently +45 minutes to get there door to door. 

Yeah, transferring lines in downtown is actually pretty annoying.

Private car drive time from Eastwood TC to Wheeler Station is about 11 minutes plus time to make the 6 or 7 bus stops between. Silver line stops are scheduled to be very quick though. From the Four Oaks Station to Galleria Station, it is a 1 mileish journey with 5 stops and is scheduled to take 8 minutes. 

Wheeler to Memorial Hermann station is scheduled at 6 minutes. 

So maybe in the range of 25-30ish for Eastwood TC to Memorial Hermann stop if you nail a connection.

[X.R.]

If I was the city, I would promote the hell out of this because now developers can develop in less expensive areas and talk about "galleria/TMC only 20 mins away without getting into a car" type stuff. If @wilcal is right, and you could go from Eastwood to Galleria maybe in 45 mins or so MAX, I would call that a big win.

Why would the Afton Oaks people whine? Anyone take Richmond through there? People fly down that road at like 45-50mph when traffic is crazy on 59. This would cause some natural speed limiting and then people wouldn't have to idle in their driveway waiting for the perfect chance to back out of their driveway and not die.

And yeah, I think the 59 project is supposed to move forward regardless of the lawsuit but who knows. I can't imagine the city looks at the recent flooding of 288 (even if its supposed to flood) and goes "Yeah, lets dig a giant hole that will flood in the area where we have some of the most important land development in the midtown/downtown area." 

[rechlin]

1 hour ago, X.R. said:

Why would the Afton Oaks people whine? Anyone take Richmond through there? People fly down that road at like 45-50mph when traffic is crazy on 59. This would cause some natural speed limiting and then people wouldn't have to idle in their driveway waiting for the perfect chance to back out of their driveway and not die.

The BRT line is not planned to go through Afton Oaks.  It would drop down from Richmond in the Greenway Plaza area to follow Westpark.  Even the last designs for the LRT line weren't even planned to go go through Afton Oaks.  After the neighborhood made a big stink about it, Metro moved the planned route from Richmond to Westpark.  The biggest difference I am seeing between the proposed BRT route and the formerly proposed LRT route, in the Wheeler to Uptown section, is that it now appears to cross IH-69 at Edloe instead of just west of Edloe (Timmons maybe?).

 

Also, if they are only planning to do Segment 2 initially, I hope they at least do two more stops into Segment 1 to connect it with the Westpark / Lower Uptown Transit Center instead of dead-ending at the railroad tracks.

[samagon]

17 hours ago, rechlin said:

The BRT line is not planned to go through Afton Oaks.  It would drop down from Richmond in the Greenway Plaza area to follow Westpark.  Even the last designs for the LRT line weren't even planned to go go through Afton Oaks.  After the neighborhood made a big stink about it, Metro moved the planned route from Richmond to Westpark.  The biggest difference I am seeing between the proposed BRT route and the formerly proposed LRT route, in the Wheeler to Uptown section, is that it now appears to cross IH-69 at Edloe instead of just west of Edloe (Timmons maybe?).

 

Also, if they are only planning to do Segment 2 initially, I hope they at least do two more stops into Segment 1 to connect it with the Westpark / Lower Uptown Transit Center instead of dead-ending at the railroad tracks.

the Afton Oaks people complained years ago, like, 2010 timeframe, after the Houston public voted in favor of the University line. 

as it was designed the light rail was going to go down Richmond through Afton Oaks. they successfully fought to have it realigned so that it would jog from Richmond over the freeway near Greenway plaza, and over to Westpark.

when all the dust from that finally settled, Culberson decided he would toss a rider onto a bill through congress that denied any federal funding for more light rail in Houston, effectively killing the University line, regardless of the corridor.

I may be remembering the timing incorrectly, but I know there's a thread on here that details this a lot better. quite sad, but typical Houston.

here ya go, jeez, it started in 2006! 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by samagon

[j_cuevas713]

And I still hate Culberson to this day. So happy Fletcher is in charge now. 

[august948]

3 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

And I still hate Culberson to this day. So happy Fletcher is in charge now. 

Fletcher isn't really in charge, but she's a reliable yes vote to pretty much anything that's proposed in the house.  Was just looking at her voting record and she's only voted no on three bills since she took office (that's in nine pages of bills going back to Jan 2019).  Makes me wonder if she's actually looking at bills or just rubber stamping whatever her leadership tells her to stamp.  At any rate, if any transportation funding is proposed you can bet she'll vote yes where Culberson voted no.

[BeerNut]

Metro about to draw first hard lines along Richmond, Westpark, Lockwood for big BRT route

 

Quote

Metropolitan Transit Authority board members are scheduled June 24 to approve a preferred alternative for the 25-mile University Line, the mammoth route that acts somewhat as an east-west spine of the region’s future transit plans. Setting the preferred route does not lock the agency into that exact path, but instead acts as the goal as design continues, leading to eventual public response to a proposal.

 

[j_cuevas713]

On 5/27/2021 at 1:42 PM, X.R. said:

If I was the city, I would promote the hell out of this because now developers can develop in less expensive areas and talk about "galleria/TMC only 20 mins away without getting into a car" type stuff. If @wilcal is right, and you could go from Eastwood to Galleria maybe in 45 mins or so MAX, I would call that a big win.

Why would the Afton Oaks people whine? Anyone take Richmond through there? People fly down that road at like 45-50mph when traffic is crazy on 59. This would cause some natural speed limiting and then people wouldn't have to idle in their driveway waiting for the perfect chance to back out of their driveway and not die.

And yeah, I think the 59 project is supposed to move forward regardless of the lawsuit but who knows. I can't imagine the city looks at the recent flooding of 288 (even if its supposed to flood) and goes "Yeah, lets dig a giant hole that will flood in the area where we have some of the most important land development in the midtown/downtown area." 

The USDOT just sent another letter to TxDOT after community leaders went to the county, telling TxDOT to STOP ALL ACTION on this project and to stop harassing residents in acquiring their property. This just happened today. TxDOT thinks they can just bulldoze over people, and I'm happy to see Harris County fighting back. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by j_cuevas713

[BEES?!]

METRONext Moving Forward Plan Update as of June 2021.

Not a lot of info on BRT, but as far as the Inner Katy BRT corridor goes, looks like there's a community meeting in July, then an interagency meeting in August. Hope they end up implementing the Memorial Park stop that was proposed. I am so interested to see how the BRT is going to interact with the LRT downtown- I guess it'll share the lane with the trains, is that right?

There's also a lot of info in there about the BOOST corridors, looks like they're thinking that the pilot 1.5 mi section of the 56 Airline/Montrose BOOST corridor will be finished this year, and the 1.5 mi partner segment is supposed to have begun construction in June 2021. (6/30, actually)

Has there been any info on the preferred alternative for the University BRT line posted anywhere since the Chron article?

[wilcal]

That update makes me want to pull my freaking hair out!

Do they have like a small handful of employees working on METRONext and that's it?

18 months just to design the BOOST corridor for the 82 and another 24 for construction? We are talking about ramps and bus shelters here. 

Also, since when is Inner Katy BRT a MNext project? That was fine before the boobs issue passed and is partially funded by H-GAC.

Basically, in the 20 months since the bond passed they've done 300 bus stop improvements? And no design work on any LRT/BRT projects besides Inner Katy which shouldn't count? *Sigh*

 

/Rant over

[citykid09]

18 hours ago, BEES?! said:

METRONext Moving Forward Plan Update as of June 2021.

Not a lot of info on BRT, but as far as the Inner Katy BRT corridor goes, looks like there's a community meeting in July, then an interagency meeting in August. Hope they end up implementing the Memorial Park stop that was proposed. I am so interested to see how the BRT is going to interact with the LRT downtown- I guess it'll share the lane with the trains, is that right?

There's also a lot of info in there about the BOOST corridors, looks like they're thinking that the pilot 1.5 mi section of the 56 Airline/Montrose BOOST corridor will be finished this year, and the 1.5 mi partner segment is supposed to have begun construction in June 2021. (6/30, actually)

Has there been any info on the preferred alternative for the University BRT line posted anywhere since the Chron article?

I hate BRT in cities like Houston. I feel like a metro area of 7+ million people should strive for something more significant. If they are going to settle for BRT, at least make it like these newer ones in China. They look just like light rail but with no tracks. METRO should replace the uptown line with these also.

 

[wilcal]

If you don't like looking at the aesthetics of seeing wheels then maybe just close your eyes while you wait for it?

[j_cuevas713]

On 7/8/2021 at 12:08 PM, citykid09 said:

I hate BRT in cities like Houston. I feel like a metro area of 7+ million people should strive for something more significant. If they are going to settle for BRT, at least make it like these newer ones in China. They look just like light rail but with no tracks. METRO should replace the uptown line with these also.

 

When I took the bus in SF and before that Seattle, I cared less about what type of transit it was and more about how effective it got me to my general location. I didn't use the subway or light rail in SF because I had no reason to. It was mostly buses running on overhead wires. I think having these BRT routes running on overhead wires would really help embed it as a transit line and aesthetically it's pleasing and subconsciously tells motorists to slow down. Just my opinion. In either case it's really more about a feeling than a type when it comes to transit. If I feel I can get somewhere with little effort, then I really don't care. Plus the infrastructure around the BRT lines will be upgraded, enhancing the ability to walk to a transit stop. Once we see these routes running city wide, I think we'll learn to utilize it and appreciate it a bit more. The fact it's dedicated, effective, clean transit is what matters. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by j_cuevas713

[samagon]

as long as it has dedicated ROW, and priority at signals to ensure it stays on schedule, I don't mind so much what it looks like.

as far as traffic calming, the looks of the public transit has less to do with it, and it's more down to the size of lanes, and things that might force a driver to stay alert.

[Naviguessor]

Agree with samagon, provided that streets/lane-ways are kept to a higher standard of maintenance and repair, then the rest of our third-world surfaces.