Dallas - Houston HSR Station

[lockmat]

Quote

 

President Donald Trump’s team has compiled a list of about 50 infrastructure projects nationwide, totaling at least $137.5 billion...

 

... Among the projects could be a new terminal for the Kansas City airport, upgrades to Interstate 95 in North Carolina and the construction of a high-speed railway from Dallas to Houston.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article128492164.html

 

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article128492164.html#storylink=cpy

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article128492164.html
Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article128492164.html#storylink=cpy

[Naviguessor]

He's going to try to take credit for a private venture?  Sounds about right. 

[MaxConcrete]

Texas Central has said they will seek low-interest government loans, so this would be good news for them since most reports about the Trump infrastructure plan suggest it will be public-private partnerships (e.g. toll roads) and tax credits to promote private investment. I don't know if the so-called "Tifia" loans would apply to trains.

 

Trump administration support would likely be more favorable for North Texas, where they are studying a link between Dallas and Fort Worth. That section is definitely not financially feasible on its own and will require government funds. Although the Trump plan would be expected to minimize "free" money, I could see some funding going towards system connectivity and promoting success of privately funded efforts, which in this case would be helping to funnel more passengers into Texas Central.

[br0ken_shad0w]

On 9/2/2016 at 5:40 PM, BeerNut said:

Every time I think about the possible NW Mall terminal location I reminded of Gare du Nord in Paris where the Eurostar train terminates for Paris.  It's not as convenient as other terminals but it's good enough because there is subway access.  So for Houston this only makes sense if there is light rail or bus connection.

 

With the new Uptown BRT, how difficult would it be for Metro to extend that line from the NW Transit Center to the hypothetical station? It would at least be something.

[102IAHexpress]

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 4:47 AM, br0ken_shad0w said:

 

It would at least be something.

 

You make it seem as if there is nothing there. However, currently NW mall (even though it is vacant) is well served with Metro's:

33 Post Oak,

58 Hammerly,

66 Quitman,

71 Cottage Grove,

85 Antoine-Washington and

26 Long-Point

Something indeed. Other than Metro's transit centers, park and rides or downtown, how many places in Houston have as many public transportation options as NW mall? 

 

In any event, I doubt many Texas Central passengers will ride public transportation to/from the station. At most, it will be as many people who ride the 102IAH to Bush airport or 40 Telephone to Hobby airport. Basically just the workers of those airports/train station who don't have cars yet. 

[Geographer]

How much would it cost the city to put the HSR station downtown?

[cspwal]

The environmental studies that Texas Central did came to the conclusion it would be some large portion of the over all project to get it downtown from the NW mall site

[Ross]

7 hours ago, Geographer said:

How much would it cost the city to put the HSR station downtown?

The cost to get to Downtown was in the billions. No economic reason to put it there.

[august948]

3 hours ago, Ross said:

The cost to get to Downtown was in the billions. No economic reason to put it there.

 

Plus the population center of the Houston area has been moving slowly west for years.  Putting it in a run down area near the intersection of 3 major highways is a brilliant move.  The potential for expansion and redevelopment is much higher here than it would be a few miles east in downtown.

[DNAguy]

11 hours ago, august948 said:

 

Plus the population center of the Houston area has been moving slowly west for years.  Putting it in a run down area near the intersection of 3 major highways is a brilliant move.  The potential for expansion and redevelopment is much higher here than it would be a few miles east in downtown.

.

This is key. Not only population, but workforce concentration.

 

It's a great location for getting to a large % of the white collar jobs in Houston. 

 

Remember, business folks can easily expense an uber and the station is 10-20 minutes to Uptown, Downtown, or the Energy corridor.

 

The only real misses are that it isn't convenient to the two large education institutions in the city and that the medical center (a huge employer and economic driver for the city) isn't easily accessible from the location.

[zaphod]

Another thought too is that the west side is far from either airport. So for those trips to Dallas, going to this station would be closer for a lot of people.

[wilcal]

Agreement signed with spanish train operator Renfe to operate the line between 2026 and 2040: http://www.rfi.fr/en/wires/20200220-renfe-inks-6-bn-deal-build-first-high-speed-train-us

[BEES?!]

Was there anything that came of the town hall meeting (I think it was in Hempstead?) that was held Wednesday opposing the project?

[BeerNut]

15 minutes ago, BEES?! said:

Was there anything that came of the town hall meeting (I think it was in Hempstead?) that was held Wednesday opposing the project?

 

Doubtful...

 

[BEES?!]

I've been lurking on the TAHSR FB page and it's mostly people just angrily shouting "No HSR!" all over the comments, but very few actual landowners that I could see. I'm really curious how much actual opposition this faces, and what TC is currently doing to advance the project along. (Sounds like they're still negotiating with landowners)

[Trae]

This Dallas company is really doing a great job positioning Dallas as the transit hub for high-speed rail in Texas. They're working on this Houston-Dallas line but are also working on an I-35 line from San Antonio leading to Dallas (currently no plans for a Houston to I-35 Corridor line so maybe a Houston company has to form to get that built). They have made sure that Downtown Dallas is the hub for the rail, while Houston's station is 5 miles west. Why must H-Town get the short end of the stick again.

[Houston19514]

1 hour ago, Trae said:

This Dallas company is really doing a great job positioning Dallas as the transit hub for high-speed rail in Texas. They're working on this Houston-Dallas line but are also working on an I-35 line from San Antonio leading to Dallas (currently no plans for a Houston to I-35 Corridor line so maybe a Houston company has to form to get that built). They have made sure that Downtown Dallas is the hub for the rail, while Houston's station is 5 miles west. Why must H-Town get the short end of the stick again.

 

What is your source for the idea this company is working on a line between Dallas and San Antonio?

[Trae]

23 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

What is your source for the idea this company is working on a line between Dallas and San Antonio?

 

Well right now the focus is obviously on the Houston-Dallas train. But you have people like Drayton McClane (Baylor alum and Waco advocate) who sits on Texas Central's board and wants HSR in the city. It makes the most sense for the I-35 Corridor to be their next project. It's in the infancy stages but there are a few articles online about it and it's very likely local politicians along 35 will partner with Texas Central Railway to build HSR.

 

 

[Houston19514]

3 minutes ago, Trae said:

 

Well right now the focus is obviously on the Houston-Dallas train. But you have people like Drayton McClane (Baylor alum and Waco advocate) who sits on Texas Central's board and wants HSR in the city. It makes the most sense for the I-35 Corridor to be their next project. It's in the infancy stages but there are a few articles online about it and it's very likely local politicians along 35 will partner with Texas Central Railway to build HSR.

 

 

 

So you are just assuming they might at some point have some interest in working on a route from Dallas to San Antonio?  Well done.

[Trae]

1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

 

So you are just assuming they might at some point have some interest in working on a route from Dallas to San Antonio?  Well done.

 

Not that they might at some point have interest (because they do off the record) but the first rail project has to be completed first. Then they'll move onto the I-35 Corridor and make sure not to make the same mistakes/have similar issues, etc., from their first line. They aren't just going to stop when the HTX-DTX line is finished.

[Houston19514]

34 minutes ago, Trae said:

 

Not that they might at some point have interest (because they do off the record) but the first rail project has to be completed first. Then they'll move onto the I-35 Corridor and make sure not to make the same mistakes/have similar issues, etc., from their first line. They aren't just going to stop when the HTX-DTX line is finished.

 

LOL   Just to be clear... you're making all of this up, right?  I assure you, to the extent they have an interest in an I-35 line, they also have an interest in the line from Houston to Austin/San Antonio --- the whole Texas triangle.

[Trae]

31 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

LOL   Just to be clear... you're making all of this up, right?  I assure you, to the extent they have an interest in an I-35 line, they also have an interest in the line from Houston to Austin/San Antonio --- the whole Texas triangle.

 

Doubt it considering the population differences (much more going on along I-35 than I-10) and the fact they're based in Dallas and want it to be the high-speed rail hub.

[BigFootsSocks]

The articles about the I-35 corridor are federal studies and TCR is not affiliated with that line. From the conversation @Luminare and @mollusk had years ago (which, wow) there would be a spur to Austin around the area where it bends to head north to College Station

[Ross]

4 hours ago, Trae said:

This Dallas company is really doing a great job positioning Dallas as the transit hub for high-speed rail in Texas. They're working on this Houston-Dallas line but are also working on an I-35 line from San Antonio leading to Dallas (currently no plans for a Houston to I-35 Corridor line so maybe a Houston company has to form to get that built). They have made sure that Downtown Dallas is the hub for the rail, while Houston's station is 5 miles west. Why must H-Town get the short end of the stick again.

Houston's not getting the short end again. It's just not economic to get to Downtown Houston with HSR, unlike the  South side of Dallas, which provides a pretty clear shot to Downtown there without having to buy a bunch of really expensive right of way. In addition, there's only 7 people who want to go to downtown Houston(I made that one up).

[MaxConcrete]

4 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

So you are just assuming they might at some point have some interest in working on a route from Dallas to San Antonio?  Well done.

 

There was an update at the January NCTCOG meeting. See item 6

video https://nctcog.swagit.com/play/01092020-1369

presentation  https://www.nctcog.org/nctcg/media/Transportation/Committees/RTC/2020/presentations-jan.pdf?ext=.pdf

 

You'll see that North Texas is enamored of hyperloop. At 3:50 in the video or page 7 in the presentation, the alternatives screening is shown. All the high-ranking options are hyperloop, and two HSR options are ranked low.

North Texas is bidding for the hyperloop test track. (That's not mentioned in the presentation)

 

In my opinion, hyperloop is somewhat speculative since only short test tracks have been built. I also think it is going to be about the same cost as HSR. (I think I read a report that even Hyperloop officials are saying it will cost around 75% of HSR, and it will probably increase)

 

The preliminary analysis also recommends running it mostly along IH35, especially through the heavily populated areas. I'm somewhat skeptical of the feasibility of running it though Austin on IH-35. But it would be great for access to UT and downtown Austin.

 

The IH 35 proposal would not affect a Houston-to-Austin expansion of Texas Central.

 

 

[Luminare]

41 minutes ago, MaxConcrete said:

 

There was an update at the January NCTCOG meeting. See item 6

video https://nctcog.swagit.com/play/01092020-1369

presentation  https://www.nctcog.org/nctcg/media/Transportation/Committees/RTC/2020/presentations-jan.pdf?ext=.pdf

 

You'll see that North Texas is enamored of hyperloop. At 3:50 in the video or page 7 in the presentation, the alternatives screening is shown. All the high-ranking options are hyperloop, and two HSR options are ranked low.

North Texas is bidding for the hyperloop test track. (That's not mentioned in the presentation)

 

In my opinion, hyperloop is somewhat speculative since only short test tracks have been built. I also think it is going to be about the same cost as HSR. (I think I read a report that even Hyperloop officials are saying it will cost around 75% of HSR, and it will probably increase)

 

The preliminary analysis also recommends running it mostly along IH35, especially through the heavily populated areas. I'm somewhat skeptical of the feasibility of running it though Austin on IH-35. But it would be great for access to UT and downtown Austin.

 

The IH 35 proposal would not affect a Houston-to-Austin expansion of Texas Central.

 

 

 

And it also won't prevent TCR from expanding into the I-35 corridor either. Let me ask you this, which is cheaper to buy, 1 thing in 1 package, or something in bulk? While I'm interesting in the Hyperloop as well, at the end of the day it will be severely limited due to the number of butts they can put in seats. Prices to ride in the Hyperloop will be high by virtue of their being a very limited number of seats. HSR will not have that problem. The more seats means they can keep the price of a seat lower. I also find it mind-numbing this idea that just because something new comes along that the other immediately has to be thrown out. Both will cater to very different markets, and due to the number of seats, different incomes. Lets say they both get to the point where all the differences are worked out and both are dead even in terms of viability and capacity, they could still compete in the market place. Let them both build their lines and see what happens. At the end of the day if both get built then its a win win for everyone. People get more options for travel. Is that a bad thing? Do we really need to put ourselves in camps to the point we want one tech to crash just so the other gets ahead? That just seems pointless.

 

With that being said, oh wow so a thinktank that doesn't actually operate a business, or turns a profit decides that the best alternative is a tech that is still in its infancy, and only looks cheaper on paper, but doesn't account for all the other associated costs that go into a infant technology, and looks to advise government that is already naive when it comes to alternative transit planning, I'm shocked...no I'm not. I don't care what some thinktank considers to be the best option. I care about what Elon Musk thinks is the best option, and I care about what TCR thinks is the best option because they are actually paying for it. If this is a government job then I care about what voters care for it, and not some volunteer, unelected outfit thinks is the best option. These people will not have to put their money where their mouth is, but Elon Musk and TCR will, you know, the people that will actually build this. California did the same thing and that is why they are in the mess they are in now. Again, lets just let them build this stuff on their own dime and on their time, and see what happens. I'm hopeful of Hyperloops future, but it does have its drawnbacks already from the word go, and is an infant tech, and its also not some silver bullet to point in question the way people are painting it as.

[HoustonBoy]

A tunnel starting at the Northwest mall site that goes five miles to downtown would be great, but I know the economics of such a tunnel would not work. A huge bummer that downtown isn't getting the station. I think Dallas is ran much more with the future in mind as they seem to always be strategically ahead of Houston. I hope I've just been focusing on the wrong metrics, but I feel like Houston is always one step behind. Please prove me wrong because I know that that isn't the case 

[Texasota]

Well you haven't given any examples (except for the stations locations of this potential railroad), so it's hard to craft much of a response...

[DNAguy]

18 hours ago, MaxConcrete said:

 

There was an update at the January NCTCOG meeting. See item 6

video https://nctcog.swagit.com/play/01092020-1369

presentation  https://www.nctcog.org/nctcg/media/Transportation/Committees/RTC/2020/presentations-jan.pdf?ext=.pdf

 

You'll see that North Texas is enamored of hyperloop. At 3:50 in the video or page 7 in the presentation, the alternatives screening is shown. All the high-ranking options are hyperloop, and two HSR options are ranked low.

North Texas is bidding for the hyperloop test track. (That's not mentioned in the presentation)

 

In my opinion, hyperloop is somewhat speculative since only short test tracks have been built. I also think it is going to be about the same cost as HSR. (I think I read a report that even Hyperloop officials are saying it will cost around 75% of HSR, and it will probably increase)

 

The preliminary analysis also recommends running it mostly along IH35, especially through the heavily populated areas. I'm somewhat skeptical of the feasibility of running it though Austin on IH-35. But it would be great for access to UT and downtown Austin.

 

The IH 35 proposal would not affect a Houston-to-Austin expansion of Texas Central.

 

 

 

Any HSR or hyperloop that is built along the I35 corridor will likely pass Austin to the east.... along SH130.

 

I always imagined a stop at or ~ the Austin Airport.

[Ross]

7 hours ago, HoustonBoy said:

A tunnel starting at the Northwest mall site that goes five miles to downtown would be great, but I know the economics of such a tunnel would not work. A huge bummer that downtown isn't getting the station. I think Dallas is ran much more with the future in mind as they seem to always be strategically ahead of Houston. I hope I've just been focusing on the wrong metrics, but I feel like Houston is always one step behind. Please prove me wrong because I know that that isn't the case 

 

There's no way a tunnel would work. Too many impediments to building a tunnel, from acquiring the underground rights, to construction it through areas with unknown oil wells from 100 years ago, water wells, etc.

 

There's no easy way to get to Downtown Houston. Dallas is different, and there is a direct route to the proposed location.