Dallas - Houston HSR Station

[august948]

I think they're making too much out of this.  So if TCR doesn't come downtown there's no way commuter rail will ever work?  Please.  Why have they even been discussing commuter rail then?  Why doesn't this apply to the airports?  If it doesn't go to Hobby or IAH, well then commuter rail just won't work either?  That's ridiculous.

[MaxConcrete]

I just attended Texas Central's public meeting in Cypress.

 

The map on display showed the alignment ending at the Northwest Transit Center at I-10 and North Post Oak. I spoke to a guy who appeared to be the lead guy for the alignment from the engineering perspective. So I asked him, "Is the station going to be at the transfer station?" He said nothing is final, but the Federal Railroad Administration's preference is to bring it to the Northwest Transit Station, and FRA is the ultimate authority on the alignment.

 

So then I asked him, "Is Texas Central's objective to bring it to the Northwest Transit Center, and would that be consistent with Texas Central's goal for real estate development around the station?" He was less decisive on this question, and he says some interests are promoting a site with more space like the Northwest Mall site. But at the end, he said yes, Texas Central does want to bring it to the Northwest Transit Center.

 

Many folks on this forum (including me) assumed that the Northwest Mall site or property close to the mall would be selected, but that assumption may be wrong. It looks to me like there is a strong chance the station will be further south at the transit center. While that would promote transit connectivity, it would seem to greatly reduce the attractiveness of redeveloping the Northwest Mall site. In my view, I would rather see a big real estate development around a station at the Northwest Mall site, with plenty of space for parking and good highway connections. A Northwest Mall station could be connected into the transit center, maybe with a dedicated bus lane.

[BigFootsSocks]

I don't see how the NWTC has enough space for the depot though. They might just buy up some of the leftover warehouse plots around that area I guess.

[august948]

I don't see how the NWTC has enough space for the depot though. They might just buy up some of the leftover warehouse plots around that area I guess.

 

Would that be something that could fall into eminent domain?

 

Edited December 11, 2015 by august948

[BigFootsSocks]

I mean, I guess, but the warehouses and manufacturing companies in that area wouldn't need to go to court, they'd be easily persuaded.

[ADCS]

I mean, I guess, but the warehouses and manufacturing companies in that area wouldn't need to go to court, they'd be easily persuaded.

 

It's mostly 30+ year old tilt-wall construction around there; i.e. already paid for. Land owners would jump at the opportunity to upgrade their facilities away from the traffic on TCR's dime.

 

We'll know things are getting serious when we start hearing about an Upper Post Oak District TIRZ.

[curbur]

I just attended Texas Central's public meeting in Cypress.

 

The map on display showed the alignment ending at the Northwest Transit Center at I-10 and North Post Oak. I spoke to a guy who appeared to be the lead guy for the alignment from the engineering perspective. So I asked him, "Is the station going to be at the transfer station?" He said nothing is final, but the Federal Railroad Administration's preference is to bring it to the Northwest Transit Station, and FRA is the ultimate authority on the alignment.

 

So then I asked him, "Is Texas Central's objective to bring it to the Northwest Transit Center, and would that be consistent with Texas Central's goal for real estate development around the station?" He was less decisive on this question, and he says some interests are promoting a site with more space like the Northwest Mall site. But at the end, he said yes, Texas Central does want to bring it to the Northwest Transit Center.

 

Many folks on this forum (including me) assumed that the Northwest Mall site or property close to the mall would be selected, but that assumption may be wrong. It looks to me like there is a strong chance the station will be further south at the transit center. While that would promote transit connectivity, it would seem to greatly reduce the attractiveness of redeveloping the Northwest Mall site. In my view, I would rather see a big real estate development around a station at the Northwest Mall site, with plenty of space for parking and good highway connections. A Northwest Mall station could be connected into the transit center, maybe with a dedicated bus lane.

 

Were there any issues raised for local concerns from Cypress residents there? Give me a few of their hot takes so that perhaps I won't have any new ones myself today.

 

[BigFootsSocks]

Yeah I'm missing out on any fresh takes from my fellow suburbanites

[Montrose1100]

Yeah I'm missing out on any fresh takes from my fellow suburbanites

Friends and family in cypress are too busy & concerned with their 1-2 hour commute down 290 to have even heard about the HSR line.

All jokes aside I haven't heard anything.

[cspwal]

Most things I've heard are disbelief that this will be actually built

[bobruss]

I'm just curious, is the Dallas terminal going to be located in downtown Dallas.

That would make sense, since they seem to have a better understanding of these types of issues and usually

get it done right.

I don't know how we always get pushed around and end up settling for second best all of the time instead

of just saying screw you, this is where we want it and making it happen.

Just like the Richmond rail. we should have just built it right down Richmond and let those people

pout. Get over it. This is a city of 6 million people and growing and we need to get these infrastructure

projects completed before it gets much denser and harder to accomplish.

[gmac]

Yeah, ok Bob, you just hop right in there and fund the legal battles that will inevitably crush you into dust. Houston is not Dallas.

[august948]

I'm just curious, is the Dallas terminal going to be located in downtown Dallas.

That would make sense, since they seem to have a better understanding of these types of issues and usually

get it done right.

I don't know how we always get pushed around and end up settling for second best all of the time instead

of just saying screw you, this is where we want it and making it happen.

Just like the Richmond rail. we should have just built it right down Richmond and let those people

pout. Get over it. This is a city of 6 million people and growing and we need to get these infrastructure

projects completed before it gets much denser and harder to accomplish.

 

My understanding is that the HSR station is in downtown Dallas because they've got a clear right of way and no significant development the direction it is coming in.  Dart was built in a similar manner without having to plow through existing well-to-do neighborhoods with political clout.  It doesn't have anything to do with Dallas doing things right.  It's just luck, and perhaps timidity, in choosing their rail corridors.

 

[BigFootsSocks]

Yeah, ok Bob, you just hop right in there and fund the legal battles that will inevitably crush you into dust. Houston is not Dallas.

I wanna write a really hot fresh take and say something snarky, but...yeah you're not wrong.

[Sparrow]

It's mostly 30+ year old tilt-wall construction around there; i.e. already paid for. Land owners would jump at the opportunity to upgrade their facilities away from the traffic on TCR's dime.

 

We'll know things are getting serious when we start hearing about an Upper Post Oak District TIRZ.

 

"Upper Post Oak District"--is that a name that is actually used in any circles, or did you just create that? If so, bravo my friend, bravo. It is very powerful and sophisticated, connecting to the Uptown brand, while at the same time differentiating and elevating itself. 

[ADCS]

"Upper Post Oak District"--is that a name that is actually used in any circles, or did you just create that? If so, bravo my friend, bravo. It is very powerful and sophisticated, connecting to the Uptown brand, while at the same time differentiating and elevating itself. 

 

Made it up, but it seems natural.

[islandofmind]

I think the NW Mall site or the transit center both work provided there is a light rail line along Washington Ave. to connect passengers to downtown and the rest of the Metro rail system. If it's at the Mall then they'll also need a connection to the BRT at the transit center. If these guys are prepared to build an iconic station that straddles an interstate highway in Dallas, they should have no objections to making significant contributions to getting their passengers to the place where they can most readily access the major points of interest without renting a car.

[BeerNut]

"Upper Post Oak District"--is that a name that is actually used in any circles, or did you just create that? If so, bravo my friend, bravo. It is very powerful and sophisticated, connecting to the Uptown brand, while at the same time differentiating and elevating itself. 

 

We can just call it by it's abbreviation.  UPOD

[Sparrow]

I just attended Texas Central's public meeting in Cypress.

 

The map on display showed the alignment ending at the Northwest Transit Center at I-10 and North Post Oak. I spoke to a guy who appeared to be the lead guy for the alignment from the engineering perspective. So I asked him, "Is the station going to be at the transfer station?" He said nothing is final, but the Federal Railroad Administration's preference is to bring it to the Northwest Transit Station, and FRA is the ultimate authority on the alignment.

 

So then I asked him, "Is Texas Central's objective to bring it to the Northwest Transit Center, and would that be consistent with Texas Central's goal for real estate development around the station?" He was less decisive on this question, and he says some interests are promoting a site with more space like the Northwest Mall site. But at the end, he said yes, Texas Central does want to bring it to the Northwest Transit Center.

 

Many folks on this forum (including me) assumed that the Northwest Mall site or property close to the mall would be selected, but that assumption may be wrong. It looks to me like there is a strong chance the station will be further south at the transit center. While that would promote transit connectivity, it would seem to greatly reduce the attractiveness of redeveloping the Northwest Mall site. In my view, I would rather see a big real estate development around a station at the Northwest Mall site, with plenty of space for parking and good highway connections. A Northwest Mall station could be connected into the transit center, maybe with a dedicated bus lane.

 

http://www.texascentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/OpenHouseExhibit_22x34_StripMap_Harris_5_reduced.pdf

 

Map of proposed alignment ending at NW TC.

[BigFootsSocks]

Technically that's north of the Transit center, but it cuts through that almost-complete apartment complex, which leads me to think that they don't have a specific site in mind, so it's probably means the station will be in that area.

[curbur]

http://www.texascentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/OpenHouseExhibit_22x34_StripMap_Harris_5_reduced.pdf

 

Map of proposed alignment ending at NW TC.

 

Well that alignment seems to segment the NW mall site from where passengers will be let off.

[cspwal]

It might be possible for the station (where the trains arrive and depart, letting passengers off, letting people on, etc) might be separate from the TCR yard, where the trains go to sleep when not in use and get washed and stuff.  

Somewhere along the line there will probably be a yard for storage of cars and end units, and enough track to assemble trains not on the mainline.  Even if they only run trains of one length so never need to swap cars, they most definitely won't be running the same frequency of trains at 9 am and at 2 am.

 

 

 

Edit:

Looked on the map, and a station at the NW transit center would be near Dave and Busters, Ikea, and a movie theater, so we're good on development 

Edited December 15, 2015 by cspwal

[PeopleAreStrange]

Both NW transit center and NW mall are bad locations for people arriving in Houston if their destination is downtown.

 

Downtown Houston has the highest concentration of office buildings and hotels that you could walk to after getting off the train.

 

[Ross]

Both NW transit center and NW mall are bad locations for people arriving in Houston if their destination is downtown.

Downtown Houston has the highest concentration of office buildings and hotels that you could walk to after getting off the train.

When my office was downtown, most business visitors stayed at hotels near the Galleria. Downtown is overrated.

[Howard Huge]

When my office was downtown, most business visitors stayed at hotels near the Galleria. Downtown is overrated.

Ok, well, there ya have it.

This little tidbit of anecdotal evidence from "Ross" has just shut all of us dumbass Downtown boosters down for good.

Let's just pack it all up and close up shop, might as well give up on hoping anything cool ever comes to downtown.

You see, most business visitors at Ross' office stayed in hotels near the Galleria. Surely that means that ALL business visitors going to a downtown office are staying in Galleria area Hotels. I don't know who's filling up all those downtown Hotels, or why they're building even more because they claim theres a "shortage of hotel rooms in the CBD", but Ross knows the real deal.

You heard it here first, downtown is overrated.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Howard Huge

[Houston19514]

When my office was downtown, most business visitors stayed at hotels near the Galleria. Downtown is overrated.

How many years ago was that?

[gmac]

I was recently involved with a fairly decent-sized downtown convention. Nearly every out-of-towner I spoke with said they wished the event was held somewhere interesting. They liked the tunnels, but were perplexed that the businesses pretty much shut down at 3 pm. Should have had it at the Galleria JW Marriott!

[Ross]

How many years ago was that?

This year

[jgriff]

Both NW transit center and NW mall are bad locations for people arriving in Houston if their destination is downtown.

 

Downtown Houston has the highest concentration of office buildings and hotels that you could walk to after getting off the train.

There are buses that leave the NWTC multiple times an hour that will get you to downtown in about 10 minutes. Thousands of people ride them everyday. I rode it everyday for years.

[ADCS]

There are buses that leave the NWTC multiple times an hour that will get you to downtown in about 10 minutes. Thousands of people ride them everyday. I rode it everyday for years.

 

TCR could run a business-class shuttle service themselves, if they so desired.

 

Also, with respect to the rail yard, I'm guessing that will be near the planned Shiro station, both because the land is there, and it's a great way to shore up local political support (jobs).