POST: Mixed-Use Development At 401 Franklin St.

[H-Town Man]

10 hours ago, arche_757 said:

What sense of history are you remotely referring to?

Both buildings are historic. The Gulf moreso, obviously.

[arche_757]

What’s the historic part of the post office again?

The Gulf I certainly understand.  The other -to me- is a stretch.  I mean we’ve had a lot of fantastic buildings torn down here that are more substantial architecture, but whatever.

[Texasota]

If nothing else, both the Gulf building and the post office are legally historic. They're listed in the National Register of Historic Places.

Pennzoil Place is not, but it is 100% eligible for listing. It's an important building architecturally.

 

[arche_757]

Interestingly I’m having a time finding what makes it a national register building, NPS website keeps crashing for me.  Can anyone elaborate on what makes the Barbara Jordan Post Office of national significance?  Please.

[mkultra25]

1 hour ago, arche_757 said:

Interestingly I’m having a time finding what makes it a national register building, NPS website keeps crashing for me.  Can anyone elaborate on what makes the Barbara Jordan Post Office of national significance?  Please.

For what it's worth, the searchable table here:

https://www.nps.gov/subjects/nationalregister/database-research.htm#table

indicates a local level of significance but not a state, national, or international level of significance. Area of significance is listed as "Architecture; Politics/Government", along with a listing date of 2/2/2018. The obvious conclusion to be drawn is that a site does not have to necessarily have national or even state-level significance in order to be listed.    

Edit: I searched the table for "Barbara Jordan" to locate the building.

Edited December 18, 2021 by mkultra25

[arche_757]

Thanks @mkultra25!  I found the database but couldn’t get it to load even after multiple attempts. I assume the traffic from HAIF was so great it was causing immense slowdowns for the NPS.

That is interesting that a building with local history would make it onto a national database.  I know the NPS is somewhat subjective in reviewing projects, but to me for a building to be on a national list of important buildings it really does require national importance.  That can be through either the history that took place, or history that was made by the building, or through the fantastic architecture it exhibits - like the Menil will eventually be on the NPS register.

That brings the question: which buildings do Houstonians feel strongly should belong on the national register?

[mkultra25]

17 hours ago, arche_757 said:

That is interesting that a building with local history would make it onto a national database.  I know the NPS is somewhat subjective in reviewing projects, but to me for a building to be on a national list of important buildings it really does require national importance.  That can be through either the history that took place, or history that was made by the building, or through the fantastic architecture it exhibits - like the Menil will eventually be on the NPS register.

That brings the question: which buildings do Houstonians feel strongly should belong on the national register?

Knowing that there were at least a few Heights-area houses in the National Register, I went back to the database and searched for "Harvard", then scrolled down to Texas, expecting to find the late Bart Truxillo's house at 1802 Harvard. It was indeed there, but two things surprised me: 1) that it, like the former Post Office, was also listed as having only local significance, and 2) there are almost 20 other houses on Harvard listed in the Register, likewise flagged as being solely of local significance. 

The Truxillo house could be argued to have more than local significance, from the standpoint of being more architecturally-distinctive than the Post Office building, and being one of two remaining houses built by the original developers of the Heights. But the same can't be said for every other house on Harvard that's listed.

Downloading the data set via the link on that page is a much easier way to work with the data. It's a csv file that can be filtered by Texas/Harris County/Houston in Excel to show that there are 282 listings in Houston out of a total of 96,643 listings. 

[arche_757]

It will be interesting to read in: 10, 15, 20+ years the architectural guides regarding Post.  The transformative architecture OMA has rendered there (I’ve not been in person, this is judging from photos) is unique - not only here in Houston, but really anywhere in the States.  These sort of grand “civic” scape repurposed building projects seem to be more commonplace in Europe and Asia, so to have a large scale repurposing locally is really great.

Imagine a similar approach to the old convention center 25 years ago.

[H-Town Man]

On 12/18/2021 at 11:14 AM, arche_757 said:

What’s the historic part of the post office again?

The Gulf I certainly understand.  The other -to me- is a stretch.  I mean we’ve had a lot of fantastic buildings torn down here that are more substantial architecture, but whatever.

I'm not saying I love the building. But the giant cast-in-place concrete columns and beams are a type of construction we may not see again. The postal service didn't mess around when they built things. There's a sense of, "Let us think that when we build, we build forever" that you don't find in today's steel frame, tiltwall warehouses like that Amazon one that crumpled like a tin can.

How many other existing warehouses in Houston do you think could support a rooftop deck without a ton of extra columns and reinforcement being added?

The cast concrete exoskeleton of the office building is also something that evokes an era.

[thatguysly]

Seeing that Houston tears everything down and saves virtually nothing, you could argue any building that lasts that long could be considered significant.

[arche_757]

@H-Town Man I am not sure?  I mean if the structure of the Post Office is by itself the  architecturally significant element that deserves preservation, then why do we even debate the Astrodome?

Beggers cannot be choosers, since at this point we’re all beggers in this town when it comes to historic preservation.  It is a shame developers like Lovett didn’t exist a couple decades sooner.  If there had been more here with a thought towards preservation then perhaps we would have some of our old, great buildings: Sam Houston Coliseum, Robinson Public Warehouse, Foleys Downtown, Prudential Building et cetera.

Edited December 21, 2021 by arche_757
Clarity on response.

[H-Town Man]

On 12/20/2021 at 10:00 PM, arche_757 said:

@H-Town Man I am not sure?  I mean if the structure of the Post Office is by itself the  architecturally significant element that deserves preservation, then why do we even debate the Astrodome?

Beggers cannot be choosers, since at this point we’re all beggers in this town when it comes to historic preservation.  It is a shame developers like Lovett didn’t exist a couple decades sooner.  If there had been more here with a thought towards preservation then perhaps we would have some of our old, great buildings: Sam Houston Coliseum, Robinson Public Warehouse, Foleys Downtown, Prudential Building et cetera.

I don't know why there is even a debate about the Astrodome. I don't see why it is controversial to preserve. I am also pretty sure it would be a functioning tourist attraction right now if it were not for the Texans and the Rodeo. I think Ed Emmett was willing to take them on and Lina Hidalgo isn't. It's not a fight that most people would want to have in their first or second term as judge.

Some of those buildings you mention I am not sure pass cost/benefit analysis. Sam Houston Coliseum had some history but was pretty dated for its function. Location comes into play. New York is on its third or fourth iteration of Madison Square Garden. Some of those early iterations were pretty amazing structures with 100 times the history of Sam Houston Coliseum, but land on Madison Square is too precious a commodity to be taken up by a functionally obsolete arena (and yes, I do realize that the current MSG is not on Madison Square). POST might see the wrecking ball too at some point and I won't be chaining myself to the bulldozers.

[arche_757]

Hard to compare NYC historic buildings with our own.  Coliseum may be a bit of a stretch.  The others may seem odd, but considering how few large historical structures we have, not to mention those were all recently demolished with nothing replacing them.  *Foley’s being the exception.

Edited December 23, 2021 by arche_757

[Big E]

9 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

I don't know why there is even a debate about the Astrodome.

Because most people in Houston don't give one whit about the Astrodome. It was Emmett's pet project, but nobody else cared and just want it torn down because it serves no purpose, which is why every attempt at a referendum to spend money on the thing failed. Texas Stadium and the Georgia Dome were torn down with no fanfare at all and nobody misses them. Hidalgo just had the issue thrown in her lap because Emmett went to the level of getting the thing declared historic on his way out the door.

[j_cuevas713]

Honestly I’m glad he did, and its a State Antiquities Landmark, meaning it can’t be altered without consent from the state. This is a rare opportunity to actually save one of the buildings that made us the city we are. We really need to evaluate the importance of the few remaining truly historic buildings we have left. We don’t have the “luxury” of tearing down any more history. People often argue that even Yankee Stadium was torn down but losing Yankee Stadium didn’t hurt NY because most of NYC is old and historic. 

[dbigtex56]

1 hour ago, Big E said:

nobody else cared and just want it torn down

You're wrong.
You know you're wrong, so there's no need to expand on that statement.

[dbigtex56]

1 hour ago, Big E said:

Hidalgo just had the issue thrown in her lap because Emmett went to the level of getting the thing declared historic on his way out the door.

Read 'How the Astrodome was saved'.
"In 2014, the Astrodome became a National Historic Landmark on the National Register of Historic Places. Three years later, it became a State Antiquities Landmark."
(Hidalgo defeated Emmett in the November 2018 election. Please explain how Emmett had the Dome receive two landmark statuses retroactively while "on his way out the door".)
 

[bobruss]

Let's not get started on the Astrodome argument on this site. 

I think it has its own post.

[H-Town Man]

14 hours ago, arche_757 said:

Hard to compare NYC historic buildings with our own.  Coliseum may be a bit of a stretch.  The others may seem odd, but considering how few large historical structures we have, not to mention those were all recently demolished with nothing replacing them.  *Foley’s being the exception.

Sam Houston Coliseum:Houston::3rd Madison Square Garden:New York

 

[SMU1213]

Bring the Astrodome down to it's steel studs and put a park in the middle of it.

Next question. 

[BEES?!]

POST will be having a NYE event with fireworks on the skylawn. Have to buy tickets, though. ($65) Probably would be insane without a paid entry
 

Eventbrite link

 

Also, I don’t remember seeing it here, but Common Desk is also going to be coming to POST in 2022. This seems like a really good location for them. They’re also set up in the ION. 

Edited December 23, 2021 by BEES?!

[Brittanie Shey]

 

[astrohip]

Oh no, I'm so sad to hear this. I hadn't seen Frank in about ten years, but he was a great kid. My son played basketball with him in HS. I remember taking a road trip with Frank Sr back in the late 90s to Dallas, to watch our kids play in a BB tourney.

He'll be missed. ☹️

[gene]

such a shame...apparently it was new years eve/day when the crash happened...it is sad that his life had to end and thoughts and prayers go out to his family and friends

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by gene

[Houston19514]

On 11/13/2021 at 9:57 PM, j_cuevas713 said:

I said the same thing about Amtrak when I was there. I love how it opened up a whole new part of downtown. It’s a side I’ve never explored or thought much about. I think many people were thinking the same thing about the station though. I could def see some sort of connection in the near future. 

Just listened to a presentation given by Kirby Liu earlier last year.  The concept of connecting to Amtrak is on their radar.  It sounds like, at least so far, they haven't been able to get Amtrak interested...  But are hopeful once they (Post) demonstrate some success...

[gene]

https://kwhi.com/2022/01/03/one-killed-in-early-morning-crash-on-new-years-day-in-la-grange/

[astrohip]

On 1/7/2022 at 10:30 AM, gene said:

https://kwhi.com/2022/01/03/one-killed-in-early-morning-crash-on-new-years-day-in-la-grange/

Sad news. Thanks for sharing that. It said he was ejected, which almost always means no seatbelt. ☹️

What's odd is I read the KWHI newsfeed daily, as I spend most of my time in Brenham, and it's a great source of local news. I remember seeing that headline, but didn't click thru as a crash in La Grange didn't seem of much interest.

[BEES?!]

Per their website, POST is now open daily. 
 

their hours are

Sun-Wed 11-9

Thu-Sat 11-10

[j_cuevas713]

Padma and Gail were at POST recently for Top Chef 

Edited January 25, 2022 by j_cuevas713

[gene]

love me some Padma!!!!!!!!