GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[musicman]

You are a ray of sunshine on a cloudy day!

i think he was a member of the temptations.

[LTAWACS]

y'all are making me blush.

[CALMSP]

forgive me..............I have forgotten...........but why was the residential portion of HP cut???

[AstrosFreak]

forgive me..............I have forgotten...........but why was the residential portion of HP cut???

If I remember correctly, it had something to do with a city requirement that parking be provided for the residential building. In any case, the developers are probably pretty happy that they didn't build it. Can you imagine trying to compete with for prices in this economy? Don't worry; there'll be plenty of downtown residential development after the economy is back in swing. The trend is moving closer to downtown, not away from it.

[Daniepwils]

Don't worry; there'll be plenty of downtown residential development after the economy is back in swing. The trend is moving closer to downtown, not away from it.

I hope you are right.

[jgriff]

Don't worry; there'll be plenty of downtown residential development after the economy is back in swing.

But will we still be alive to see it? This economy is not coming back anytime soon. It hasn't even really started to get bad yet.

We got one big downtown residential tower out of this boom. Once the construction that already has financing is over I wouldn't expect anymore for many years.

[TheNiche]

If I remember correctly, it had something to do with a city requirement that parking be provided for the residential building. In any case, the developers are probably pretty happy that they didn't build it. Can you imagine trying to compete with for prices in this economy? Don't worry; there'll be plenty of downtown residential development after the economy is back in swing. The trend is moving closer to downtown, not away from it.

I'm sure that the developers would rather have residential than office space right now. And the parking requirement is less for residential than for office.

But as I've pointed out earlier in this thread, projects like this take so much time from conception through completion and operational stabilization that at a certain point developers just have to make an educated guess as to what will be the highest and best use, then hold their nose, close their eyes, and dive into the murky water; hopefully there are no jagged rocks just beneath the surface.

[infinite_jim]

I had a chance to finally check this place out last weekend. Here's a few phone pics.

Considering that the mall has not filled most of it's spaces, I'll wait and see before judging it's success as a place.

[TexasVines]

But will we still be alive to see it? This economy is not coming back anytime soon. It hasn't even really started to get bad yet.

We got one big downtown residential tower out of this boom. Once the construction that already has financing is over I wouldn't expect anymore for many years.

blasphemy the Oman is in office now and all is candy and nuts!....you must be one of the fools still paying their mortgage and car payments and for utilities.....if you would just put your faith in the power of O then you would have so much more extra income!

[barracuda]

I had a chance to finally check this place out last weekend. Here's a few phone pics.

Considering that the mall has not filled most of it's spaces, I'll wait and see before judging it's success as a place.

Those walkways sure look narrow. If it ever fills up it might for some tough navigating.

[kylejack]

Those walkways sure look narrow. If it ever fills up it might for some tough navigating.

Deceptive, because there is empty space between these faux plywood walls and the actual glass storefronts.

[memebag]

Deceptive, because there is empty space between these faux plywood walls and the actual glass storefronts.

The inner space is still very narrow compared to any mall I've ever been in. It feels cramped when you're the only person there.

[Joke]

Wow, that first pic reminds me of nothing so much as my high school. Except for the escalator. No escalator in the high school. (Also, HP is missing a big athletic field overrun by portables).

[wernicke]

I'm in Denver interviewing for residency for the next 3 days... and I must say that the Denver Pavilions is a much better development in comparison to Houston Pavilions. Part of it has to do with the area -- the 16th St Mall where DP is located is an ideal pedestrian friendly, urban corridor. But much of it has to do with the architecture and tenants... much more open and inviting, less sterile concrete and steel.

Kind of disappointing to see what could have been. I will try to post some pictures later.

Downtown Denver is awesome, btw.

[barracuda]

Wow, that first pic reminds me of nothing so much as my high school. Except for the escalator. No escalator in the high school. (Also, HP is missing a big athletic field overrun by portables).

Lol, so true! That does remind me of a high school or small college building.

I'm in Denver interviewing for residency for the next 3 days... and I must say that the Denver Pavilions is a much better development in comparison to Houston Pavilions. Part of it has to do with the area -- the 16th St Mall where DP is located is an ideal pedestrian friendly, urban corridor. But much of it has to do with the architecture and tenants... much more open and inviting, less sterile concrete and steel.

Kind of disappointing to see what could have been. I will try to post some pictures later.

Downtown Denver is awesome, btw.

The Pavilions in downtown Denver is nice indeed. I stayed at a hotel right on 16th street a couple months ago. I walked right out onto the pedestrian-only corridor and found a place to eat. There are a few bums who ask for change, but the area is busy enough that the bums don't overwhelm the place.

What Denver did right was build the retail at street level on a pedestrian only street (with the exception of a free bus that drives up and down the corridor). The stores in the Houston Pavilions seem kind of tucked away like in a typical mall, so you're not encouraged to go there unless you actually intend to shop. While on one hand I'm glad to see any retail in DT, I do think they really made a mistake in not opening it up a bit and providing a place for more than just shopping. I still think Houston needs more pedestrian-friendly places that feel public and urban rather than more private commercial places you feel trapped inside of.

Edited December 12, 2008 by barracuda

[C2H]

I'm in Denver interviewing for residency for the next 3 days... and I must say that the Denver Pavilions is a much better development in comparison to Houston Pavilions. Part of it has to do with the area -- the 16th St Mall where DP is located is an ideal pedestrian friendly, urban corridor. But much of it has to do with the architecture and tenants... much more open and inviting, less sterile concrete and steel.

Kind of disappointing to see what could have been. I will try to post some pictures later.

Downtown Denver is awesome, btw.

I agree with your post. I used to live in Colorado and hung out in Denver quite often. I was just there in August and I must say dwntn Houston makes dt Denver look like a mini New York in comparison. The Denver Pavilions does seem like the better development, even though Houston Pavilions is larger. Denver's smart planning with the 16th Street Mall has fostered development on adjacent streets, thus creating an atmosphere that's bustling everywhere. Houston downtown's main center of action and nightlife is around Main Street. I'm a little disappointed that HP doesn't seem to be creating the buzz that we all hoped for. The only way that will happen is if we open up more stores off Main Street! Sorry!

[LTAWACS]

I agree with your post. I used to live in Colorado and hung out in Denver quite often. I was just there in August and I must say dwntn Houston makes dt Denver look like a mini New York in comparison. The Denver Pavilions does seem like the better development, even though Houston Pavilions is larger. Denver's smart planning with the 16th Street Mall has fostered development on adjacent streets, thus creating an atmosphere that's bustling everywhere. Houston downtown's main center of action and nightlife is around Main Street. I'm a little disappointed that HP doesn't seem to be creating the buzz that we all hoped for. The only way that will happen is if we open up more stores off Main Street! Sorry!

good luck with that...

[Houston19514]

Lol, so true! That does remind me of a high school or small college building.

The Pavilions in downtown Denver is nice indeed. I stayed at a hotel right on 16th street a couple months ago. I walked right out onto the pedestrian-only corridor and found a place to eat. There are a few bums who ask for change, but the area is busy enough that the bums don't overwhelm the place.

What Denver did right was build the retail at street level on a pedestrian only street (with the exception of a free bus that drives up and down the corridor). The stores in the Houston Pavilions seem kind of tucked away like in a typical mall, so you're not encouraged to go there unless you actually intend to shop. While on one hand I'm glad to see any retail in DT, I do think they really made a mistake in not opening it up a bit and providing a place for more than just shopping. I still think Houston needs more pedestrian-friendly places that feel public and urban rather than more private commercial places you feel trapped inside of.

??? The vast majority of the stores in Denver Pavilions are "tucked away" just as they will be in HP.

I agree with your post. I used to live in Colorado and hung out in Denver quite often. I was just there in August and I must say dwntn Houston makes dt Denver look like a mini New York in comparison. The Denver Pavilions does seem like the better development, even though Houston Pavilions is larger. Denver's smart planning with the 16th Street Mall has fostered development on adjacent streets, thus creating an atmosphere that's bustling everywhere. Houston downtown's main center of action and nightlife is around Main Street. I'm a little disappointed that HP doesn't seem to be creating the buzz that we all hoped for. The only way that will happen is if we open up more stores off Main Street! Sorry!

Get a grip, people. The place has been open for just over a month and a good portion of the tenants who have signed leases are not even open yet. Plus, they opened at a time when retail leasing is VERY tough.

[tierwestah]

I agree that Denver does have a pretty hype downtown but Houston is on its way. Just allow everything to get cmoplete before judging. The nightlife scene downtown Houston is already happening and once the rest of the restaurants and bars opens, it will add to the nightlife.

[fewellman]

The Denver Pavilions have been around for a long time, give the Houston pavilions some time. what did yall expect? That this one development would suddenly change downtown Houston over night? It is going to be ok, give it some time.

[ArchFan]

I agree, I think we need to give HP time.

I wasn't impressed with the Denver Pavilions when it opened, and frankly, I'm still not all that impressed.

However, downtown Denver has gradually gotten better and better over the years since the 16th Street Mall opened. So much so, that the DP is just another part of the whole scene, not the focal point.

My sense is that the redevelopment of the LoDo area has been the biggest positive force in downtown Denver. Unfortunately, Houston doesn't have as big a reservoir of interesting 100-year-old brick-or-stone-clad buildings downtown. Despite that, I think if we continue to get a variety of interesting redevelopments downtown -- not necessarily all big ones -- I think Houston will do well.

[livincinco]

Way too early to judge the success of this project. Wait till we see what happens in the surrounding blocks over the next couple of years. I think that there is a good chance that additional retail development comes in to the south and the west.

[CALMSP]

I still think it was a mistake not to include the residential. Having those living directly above the site will only help keep people in downtown. I wouldn't put the economy as a factor for not building apartments...........I love the way Gables has their facility at Kirby/Westheimer...........you couldn't ask for anything better!!

[C2H]

I will admit that i may be judging HP a little early. Denver did have a head start on its redevelopment in the early 90s. One thing for sure, Denver Pavilions is a small piece to what the rest of downtown has. 16th Street Mall is the busiest part to downtown.

[BigSky]

I will say that I went to HOB on Sunday afternoon and they had a great crowd. People need to stop being Houstonians and get positive. In a down economy this thing is so far holding it's own and probably 10% of the entire thing is open. Once Lucky Strike's opens, you will see an entire different crowd coming to this development.

I will say this, it is far from reaching its potential. But if you were to fast forward 10 years, this thing will probably be a huge success.

Mark

[LTAWACS]

I sure hope so...

[kjb434]

As much as we talk about a down economy, businesses in Houston are still doing well.

Restaurants, stores, bars, nightclubs, and malls are all still quite busy this year.

Also, like some others mentioned: The Denver Pavilion is a small part of the overall downtown experience. HP is part of downtown. A lot more will gradually happen.

I don't have a problem that the residential component didn't get built. Right now downtown is awash in residential units for sale and lease. The One Park Place is just adding a whole lot more on that. I think Finger's project is what hinted at HP to kill the residential component.

[HtownWxBoy]

I will say that I went to HOB on Sunday afternoon and they had a great crowd. People need to stop being Houstonians and get positive. In a down economy this thing is so far holding it's own and probably 10% of the entire thing is open. Once Lucky Strike's opens, you will see an entire different crowd coming to this development.

Anyone have any info on when Lucky Strike is going to open? It just says December '08.

[LTAWACS]

Anyone have any info on when Lucky Strike is going to open? It just says December '08.

I think they lost the bowling pins or such and now they have to make new ones... look for opening around january... towards the end...

[GovernorAggie]

I agree, I think we need to give HP time.

I wasn't impressed with the Denver Pavilions when it opened, and frankly, I'm still not all that impressed.

However, downtown Denver has gradually gotten better and better over the years since the 16th Street Mall opened. So much so, that the DP is just another part of the whole scene, not the focal point.

My sense is that the redevelopment of the LoDo area has been the biggest positive force in downtown Denver. Unfortunately, Houston doesn't have as big a reservoir of interesting 100-year-old brick-or-stone-clad buildings downtown. Despite that, I think if we continue to get a variety of interesting redevelopments downtown -- not necessarily all big ones -- I think Houston will do well.

I think Houston has a decent stock of historic buildings on the north side of DT, but even moreso, a TON of parking lots available (read: blank slates) to make something great. I personally see either the far southeast corner of DT near St. Joseph's and/or the far northeast corner around MMP, Irma's, etc. more of a mid-rise (4-8 floors) mixed use residential retail area. Downtown already has the bones--great street grid, very wide sidewalks in many areas, plenty of vehicle movement capacity, and up-to-date infrastructure--to be a really great blend of uses. It will take time, but it will happen I'm sure. Throw in the influx of hotels between MMP and GRB, and maybe around Toyota Center, that could be spurred by the city's rebate of hotel taxes and there could be a lot of stuff going on.