Buffalo Bayou Master Plan

[hindesky]

They are building some forms for concrete wall in the small dog park and it looked like the large dog park pond has been filled in.

[Visitor]

Hopefully they get it right this second time. That original design was was pretty bad. The constant mud bog in the large dog area was brutal.

 

I hope they do a better management job regarding graas as well. Should have a section of the large dog area fenced off at all times for grass growth/recovery with it moving around every few weeks. The place was a giant mud pit. 

Edited April 1, 2018 by Visitor

[Triton]

Here's to hoping it doesn't flood this weekend:

 

Johnny Steele Dog Park reopens by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

Johnny Steele Dog Park reopens by Marc longoria, on Flickr

[htownbro]

On 6/13/2018 at 0:07 AM, Triton said:

Here's to hoping it doesn't flood this weekend:

 

Johnny Steele Dog Park reopens by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

Johnny Steele Dog Park reopens by Marc longoria, on Flickr

it'll be under water this weekend...

[Houston19514]

Good article in the Dallas Morning News about Buffalo Bayou Park, "To Build a Trinity Park, Dallas Should Learn From Houston's Buffalo Bayou".

https://www.dallasnews.com/arts/architecture/2018/06/18/build-trinity-park-dallas-learn-houstons-buffalo-bayou

 

[Urbannizer]

http://www.buffalobayourc.org/

 

Imagine this state of the art boathouse along the banks of Houston's Buffalo Bayou. From our proposed facility, Houstonians will enjoy access to rowing, kayaking or canoeing on Buffalo Bayou via Buffalo Bayou Rowing Center.

Buffalo Bayou Rowing Center is the 501(c)(3) non-profit bringing Olympic-style rowing to middle and high school youth of downtown Houston. We are committed to the development of tomorrow's leaders through Olympic-style rowing with future plans of a community boathouse with event and meeting space. We hope you will help share and help our vision for Houston's youth come to life.

 

[H-Town Man]

On 6/18/2018 at 10:26 AM, Houston19514 said:

Good article in the Dallas Morning News about Buffalo Bayou Park, "To Build a Trinity Park, Dallas Should Learn From Houston's Buffalo Bayou".

https://www.dallasnews.com/arts/architecture/2018/06/18/build-trinity-park-dallas-learn-houstons-buffalo-bayou

 

 

While they envy our waterway park, we can envy their newspaper architecture critic. Wish the Chronicle would hire one.

 

[Visitor]

On 6/13/2018 at 0:07 AM, Triton said:

Here's to hoping it doesn't flood this weekend:

 

Johnny Steele Dog Park reopens by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

Johnny Steele Dog Park reopens by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

Going to assume this flooded again or will in the next few days.  Has anyone seen it?

[Urbannizer]

Flooded https://www.reddit.com/r/houston/comments/8w359j/im_sad_to_report_the_john_steele_dog_park_is/

[Visitor]

Houston amazes me, half day of rain and the city is under water. 

[Nate99]

8 hours ago, Urbannizer said:

Flooded https://www.reddit.com/r/houston/comments/8w359j/im_sad_to_report_the_john_steele_dog_park_is/

 

I liked this person's take:

 

Quote

I apologize. I'm picking on you and I shouldn't be. I'm just frustrated. I just got through helping design a park like this that will have a similar flooding problem. It hasn't been built yet, but I'm pretty sure that today there's probably at least a foot of water on the property where it will be located. I'm a drainage engineer, so when we get projects like that it's my job to figure out how to keep the park from becoming a giant mudhole after it's built. And sometimes there's just no way to do it.

 

The reason we end up with things like this is because people ask for them. Mrs. Jones decides she needs a place to let her weimaraner run free and convinces a bunch of her neighbors that they do too. Then they bug the crap out of their favorite elected official until that person responds. Since said official wants to get re-elected they bug their favorite parks department until the park director responds. Since the parks director wants to keep his job he initiates a project and the parks agency starts looking for property. Since the City or the County (whichever one) is trying to be fiscally responsible, they always pursue land that is very cheap or that can be donated. This land is usually not prime real estate; read: it floods so bad that it can't be developed.

 

Once the project is initiated, a consultant is hired to come up with a plan for the park. For parks, this is usually a landscape architect. This is where your mulch comes from. Once the landscape architect has a layout, he comes to a guy like me and asks me to come up with a way to keep it from flooding. And I laugh hysterically.

 

Thing is, we live in a major metropolitan city that receives over 40 inches of rain per year; sometimes all at once. Lots inside the loop cost about a million bucks. So, if you want a place to let your dog run without a leash, you can probably expect that place to be property that gets flooded during a major storm event. And it will likely need to be fixed up after a flood; or maybe even rebuilt after the storm of the century. If you think that's a waste of taxpayer money, then maybe you should quit asking your elected officials for stuff.

 

[AREJAY]

7 hours ago, Visitor said:

Houston amazes me, half day of rain and the city is under water. 

Great sensationalism! Are you a journalist? 

The city wasn't underwater. There were some streets and some parks, within the bayou floodway, that flooded. Both are designed to flood. 

FYI: Violent rain is defined by a precipitation rate that is > 50 mm (2.0 in) per hour. Some areas got close to 8" within a 3-4 hour period.  Several places got around 4" in an hour. 

[Reporter]

Since when does anyone give a shit what a visitor has to say about anything?

[Mr.Clean19]

So have we established a metric for what amount of rainfall equals a flooded park and trails? How often do these occur? What is our expense to repair these damages? At this rate, all of the East End project money will be spent providing maintenance to the twice a year flooded west side. 

[Triton]

11 hours ago, Urbannizer said:

Flooded https://www.reddit.com/r/houston/comments/8w359j/im_sad_to_report_the_john_steele_dog_park_is/

 

John Steele Dog Park flooded July 4th by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

John Steele Dog Park flooded July 4th by Marc longoria, on Flickr

[Avossos]

the water didnt stay up long, though...

[thatguysly]

It did what it was designed to do. I am glad there are parks and trails in the flood area so it looks nice the vast majority of the time it isn't flooded. The bayou could be a overgrown, trashy wasteland it once was that floods or it could be great parks, trails, and dog parks that are highly enjoyable that also flood.

[Twinsanity02]

The dog park is built in a flood plain. Things built in flood plains will flood. It rains a lot in Houston. The dog park will flood. No news here.

[samagon]

15 hours ago, Visitor said:

Houston amazes me, half day of rain and the city is under water. 

 

Let's be fair, that specific part of Houston received 8" in a few hours.

 

that's about 1/6th of the yearly total in a few hours.

[Luminare]

This is why I don't frequent reddit anymore. Hard to gauge who is who and what opinions really matter. Just a bunch of complainers who probably don't even use the park anyway or would do nothing to improve the city in anyway. People need to understand that these flood events are going to happen more regularly. As annoying as it might be it will mean we have design a better city to be more resilient to flooding not flood resistant (which is almost impossible). At the same time though just because you know water is going to go in an area doesn't mean its not worth investment. Would be nice if more people would just look more than 2 feet in front of them.

[Twinsanity02]

I agree with Luminare and thatguysly. Buffalo Bayou will flood. It has since Houston existed ( see  flood of 1935). Steps can be taken to ameliorate flooding but it cannot be 100% stopped. Nevertheless Buffalo Bayou has been vastly improved in the last 20 years. It used to be quite nasty.

[kdog08]

11 hours ago, thatguysly said:

It did what it was designed to do. I am glad there are parks and trails in the flood area so it looks nice the vast majority of the time it isn't flooded. The bayou could be a overgrown, trashy wasteland it once was that floods or it could be great parks, trails, and dog parks that are highly enjoyable that also flood.

 

11 hours ago, Twinsanity02 said:

The dog park is built in a flood plain. Things built in flood plains will flood. It rains a lot in Houston. The dog park will flood. No news here.

 

Yup, seems like there's a dog park where there shouldn't be one. 

Edited July 6, 2018 by kdog08

[Visitor]

23 hours ago, AREJAY said:

Great sensationalism! Are you a journalist? 

The city wasn't underwater. There were some streets and some parks, within the bayou floodway, that flooded. Both are designed to flood. 

FYI: Violent rain is defined by a precipitation rate that is > 50 mm (2.0 in) per hour. Some areas got close to 8" within a 3-4 hour period.  Several places got around 4" in an hour. 

You really think the rate of flooding in this city is acceptable? (and I'm not talking about the dog park built 50' from the bayou to be specific).

 

Rain is not new to me nor is torrential rain. Flooding like Houston does, and the fact streets are "designed to flood" is unusual.

 

Other places I have lived experience more annual rain than Houston and experience the same heavy rain and they don't flood at nearly the rate of Houston. It's not common place to have highways shutdown and underpasses impassable. 

 

I'm not hear to debate, you have your opinion and I have mine. There are things I very much like about Houston, city planning is not one of them. 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Visitor

[Visitor]

8 hours ago, samagon said:

 

Let's be fair, that specific part of Houston received 8" in a few hours.

 

that's about 1/6th of the yearly total in a few hours.

Agreed. I expect the bayou to Crest its banks. I was more referring to the on ramps of highways, entire streets, etc. The dog park is just in a very unfortunate place. 

[Houston19514]

6 hours ago, Visitor said:

You really think the rate of flooding in this city is acceptable? (and I'm not talking about the dog park built 50'' from the bayou to be specific).

 

Rain is not new to me nor is torrential rain. Flooding like Houston does, and the fact streets are "designed to flood" is unusual.

 

Other places I have lived experience more annual rain than Houston and experience the same heavy rain and they don't flood at nearly the rate of Houston. It's not common place to have highways shutdown and underpasses impassable. 

 

I'm not hear to debate, you have your opinion and I have mine. There are things I very much like about Houston, city planning is not one of them. 

 

I'm curious what places you've lived that receive more rain than Houston 

[Visitor]

1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

 

I'm curious what places you've lived that receive more rain than Houston 

Orlando and also Charlotte which receives the same annual rainfall as Houston. 

 

 

[jgriff]

I’m not sure that just because the dog park floods that it is in the wrong location. The entire park is where it is because it’s a huge area of land that’s not developed and is not privately owned. Think about the reasons for that. Could we have a park this size in another location? How about we move it 1/4 mile South into an area that floods much less often and buy 124 acres there? Kick all the people out of their houses and pay several million per acre. I think cleaning up the flood debris will be cheaper in the long run.

 

The flooding is not a suprise. The park was designed to flood. The dog park was redesigned this time to be more resilient.

[Houston19514]

40 minutes ago, Visitor said:

Orlando and also Charlotte which receives the same annual rainfall as Houston. 

 

 

 

Charlotte's annual rainfall is significantly less than Houston's. And it's not just annual rainfall that matters.  How it arrives also matters.  Do they get 8 inch downpours like we had Wednesday without any flooding?

[Rube88]

Not a weather person, but elevation may also play a part. Charlotte sits at 750 feet above see level, but Orlando and Houston are both in the low 80's. 

[Ross]

17 hours ago, Visitor said:

You really think the rate of flooding in this city is acceptable? (and I'm not talking about the dog park built 50' from the bayou to be specific).

 

Rain is not new to me nor is torrential rain. Flooding like Houston does, and the fact streets are "designed to flood" is unusual.

 

Other places I have lived experience more annual rain than Houston and experience the same heavy rain and they don't flood at nearly the rate of Houston. It's not common place to have highways shutdown and underpasses impassable. 

 

I'm not hear to debate, you have your opinion and I have mine. There are things I very much like about Houston, city planning is not one of them. 

The streets have always been designed to flood, because Houston is too flat to get heavy downpours drained quickly. I lived on Stella Link where the YMCA is in the 80's, and Bray's Bayou was over its banks at least once a year back then. Rice University and the Medical Center flooded in 1976 and 1979. Most of the intersections on Richmond and Westheimer outside the Loop flooded after an inch of rain. Freeways that are in trenches will flood - that's better than buildings flooding.

[Twinsanity02]

I'm not trying to scare anyone away, but folks sometimes it rains real hard in Texas. Here are some years and numbers.   1921 Thrall TX, 38 inches over 18 hours,  1935 D'Hannis TX 22 inches over 2.75 hours,  1979 Alvin TX 42 inches over 24 hours ( 24 hour US record) . Then there was the 1994 flooding in north Harris County and near Lake Livingston with Kickapoo creek receiving between 25 to 36 inches over a 6 hour period!  I'm not suggesting passivity, but there only so much one can do with that kind of rain. Anyway it's better than what Reunion island received in 1980 from cyclone Hyacinthe.  Twenty one feet of rain.

[Jared625]

21 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Charlotte's annual rainfall is significantly less than Houston's. And it's not just annual rainfall that matters.  How it arrives also matters.  Do they get 8 inch downpours like we had Wednesday without any flooding?

 

I have lived in both Houston and Orlando area. Yes Orlando does give heavy downpours in a short time span but the difference comes down to the soil. Orlando and Florida in general is all sand and porous limestone base soil. The water get absorbed into the ground far easier and faster than the clay soil in Houston. That does create another issue of sinkholes in Florida that we really don't have to deal with here, but in relation to flooding it helps them tremendously.

[skooljunkie]

No doubt roads will flood anywhere for a short period of time during 4-inch+ per hour rains, however it seems that drain pipes are way too small (and likely collapsed/clogged with silt) along many major roads in Houston. They were built 5-10 decades ago when we didn’t tend to think about regional drainage. 

 

For example, water sits for up to an hour on Westcott and Washington after intense downpours and these streets are on relatively high ground between two bayous. Drive along during a light shower and you’ll spot drain after drain clogged. Clogged drains are by far the most challenging item to get fixed via 311 (and believe me, I’ve 311ed a lot over the years). My guess is the old, small drainage pipes are also the easiest to clog up. 

 

How are rebuilds like Shepherd and Kirby doing now? A small car could be driven through the new storm pipes that were put underground along Tuam recently. I’m going to bet I could not even fit in the storm drain pipes under Richmond Ave. That road needs to be rebuilt with or without the train. In sum, Rebuild Houston.  

 

 

 

[Timoric]

-

Edited July 12, 2019 by Timoric

[urbanize713]

FYI the dog park is up and running within two weeks of the flood that “ruined” the dog park. Buffalo bayou posted pics of dogs already making use of the lake/pool and running around. Guess no one  is going to post that on reddit though and say how wrong they were but I digress. Cheers to our awesome park!

[Urbannizer]

Should hear more about the next phase soon.

 

http://realtynewsreport.com/2018/10/11/transforming-a-bayou-into-an-award-winning-park-qa-with-anne-olson-of-buffalo-bayou-partnership/

 

We also have a major planning project underway along the bayou’s East Sector.  We have spent the past year gathering input from neighborhood residents and stakeholders as to what they would like to see along this stretch of the waterway.  

The final plan will be completed by the end of the year.

[H-Town Man]

From the interview:

 

"Memorial Park’s master plan is very focused on conservation.  As a result, the plan does not recommend a trail along the bayou’s edge.  I believe the Memorial Park Conservancy team would like to do riparian restoration along the bayou.  They definitely see the bayou being very natural."

 

Translation: The people who live across the bayou from Memorial Park have made it known, in no uncertain terms, that they do not want to see a soul walking anywhere near the bank and looking at their yards. Since most of them are connected in some way to the people giving money for the project, there's really no chance of there ever being a trail along there. For most Memorial Park users, there may as well not even be a bayou running next to that park. Enjoy looking at Memorial Drive instead. It's pretty.

 

 

[Houston19514]

54 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

From the interview:

 

"Memorial Park’s master plan is very focused on conservation.  As a result, the plan does not recommend a trail along the bayou’s edge.  I believe the Memorial Park Conservancy team would like to do riparian restoration along the bayou.  They definitely see the bayou being very natural."

 

Translation: The people who live across the bayou from Memorial Park have made it known, in no uncertain terms, that they do not want to see a soul walking anywhere near the bank and looking at their yards. Since most of them are connected in some way to the people giving money for the project, there's really no chance of there ever being a trail along there. For most Memorial Park users, there may as well not even be a bayou running next to that park. Enjoy looking at Memorial Drive instead. It's pretty.

 

 

 

Memorial Park's Master Plan includes hiking trails that run pretty close to the bayou along most of its length through the park.

[H-Town Man]

4 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Memorial Park's Master Plan includes hiking trails that run pretty close to the bayou along most of its length through the park.

 

Why do you think she would have said that then? There must be a difference between "along the bayou's edge" and "pretty close to the bayou."

 

[Angostura]

1 hour ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Why do you think she would have said that then? There must be a difference between "along the bayou's edge" and "pretty close to the bayou."

 

 

I assume it's in reference to doing a trail like there is downstream of Shepherd. To do that kind of trail upstream of Shepherd would require clearing a bunch of vegetation along the north bank of the bayou. If you look at the two sections (upstream and downstream of Shepherd) they look pretty different.

 

 

[swtsig]

2 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

From the interview:

 

"Memorial Park’s master plan is very focused on conservation.  As a result, the plan does not recommend a trail along the bayou’s edge.  I believe the Memorial Park Conservancy team would like to do riparian restoration along the bayou.  They definitely see the bayou being very natural."

 

Translation: The people who live across the bayou from Memorial Park have made it known, in no uncertain terms, that they do not want to see a soul walking anywhere near the bank and looking at their yards. Since most of them are connected in some way to the people giving money for the project, there's really no chance of there ever being a trail along there. For most Memorial Park users, there may as well not even be a bayou running next to that park. Enjoy looking at Memorial Drive instead. It's pretty.

 

 

 

talk about a dramatic yet totally unsubstantiated post. buffalo bayou park has had serious problems with erosion, it's not crazy to think that MPC realizes this and made a conscientious decision to protect the banks of the bayou as opposed to develop them. There are miles and miles of hiking and biking trails there now, regardless. 

[H-Town Man]

1 hour ago, swtsig said:

 

talk about a dramatic yet totally unsubstantiated post. buffalo bayou park has had serious problems with erosion, it's not crazy to think that MPC realizes this and made a conscientious decision to protect the banks of the bayou as opposed to develop them. There are miles and miles of hiking and biking trails there now, regardless. 

 

(shrug) It's a little naïve to think that there's no connection between the difficulty of getting to or near most of Buffalo Bayou in Memorial Park (the one overlook at the arboretum excepted) and the multi-million dollar mansions on the other side of it. If the new trails offer meaningful overlooks of the water, I will be pleasantly surprised. It is possible to build trails at the top of the banks without building them within the banks as is the case east of Shepherd, and thereby avoiding erosion. A nice walkway along the top of the bank with some jut-outs over the water. Not holding my breath.

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by H-Town Man

[H-Town Man]

It looks like pages 84-85 of the master plan are about what we can expect from the riparian trails. Visibility of the waterway seems low. Some wooden piers extending out like the one at the arboretum would be an appropriate, conservation-minded solution. An extended boardwalk along/above part of the shoreline would be more ambitious. And a canoe rental somewhere. One can hope.

 

https://issuu.com/memorialparkhouston/docs/mph_mpbook_final_small_webversion_a_c7f9e7eed3d03c

[Triton]

Are there any plans to make a better connection from Shepherd to Memorial Park? The side walk is rather small in most places and I usually have to get off the sidewalk on my bike to let people pass me. 

[jgriff]

8 hours ago, Triton said:

Are there any plans to make a better connection from Shepherd to Memorial Park? The side walk is rather small in most places and I usually have to get off the sidewalk on my bike to let people pass me. 

 

I agree. I’ve walked it many times and fear for my life on foot. I’d be even more worried on a bike. It’s so close to the road that if cyclist falls they could possibly go into traffic.

[gene]

haha i have probably driven my bike past you many times then! i agree...lets widen those sidewalks!!! 

[Houston19514]

On 10/16/2018 at 9:48 PM, Triton said:

Are there any plans to make a better connection from Shepherd to Memorial Park? The side walk is rather small in most places and I usually have to get off the sidewalk on my bike to let people pass me. 

 

They would love to, but I believe it's all private property, all pretty densely developed. 

[Angostura]

6 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

They would love to, but I believe it's all private property, all pretty densely developed. 

 

And yet they seem to have found room for six lanes of car traffic. 

[LBC2HTX]

Not sure why there's so many tears about not having a path along the bayou. If you want that, then go to BBP or one of the other many bayou paths around Houston. Plus, its not like the bayou is eye-pleasing. 

[Reporter]

PLEASING is in the eye of the beholder. So take your unpleasing OPINION and                it.