POST: 401 Franklin Post Office Site Redevelopment

[samagon]

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

This thread reminds me of the Discovery Green thread.  Thank goodness there are developers and others in this city with more vision than the average HAIFer.

I mean, I guess if you want to use disco green as an example that works, and may actually be a bad comparison, because 5 days out of the week it's pretty ghost-townish during normal business hours.

speaking of things with green in the name, why use discovery green as the example, and not green street (is that still the name?).

this spot though, I can completely see this place being a busy place after work, and absolutely on the weekends. 

for me, I'd have to walk about 10 minutes to get there from my office (well, from front door to front door, not including elevator time), from late June through early October, that's a no-go, especially if a customer is going to visit. not to mention, I am only going into the office once a week in this brave new pandemic world.

but yes, after work, and on weekends, I'm sure the wife and I will plan some trips to come and wander around for the morning, maybe even do some impulse buying at the random shops in which we may stop. if we have to pay $10 for parking though, will it be worth it for us to come here vs the Houston Farmers Market on Airline, or Rice Village?

Edited July 20, 2021 by samagon

[Houston19514]

9 minutes ago, samagon said:

I mean, I guess if you want to use disco green as an example that works, and may actually be a bad comparison, because 5 days out of the week it's pretty ghost-townish during normal business hours.

speaking of things with green in the name, why use discovery green as the example, and not green street (is that still the name?).

this spot though, I can completely see this place being a busy place after work, and absolutely on the weekends. 

for me, I'd have to walk about 10 minutes to get there from my office (well, from front door to front door, not including elevator time), from late June through early October, that's a no-go, especially if a customer is going to visit. not to mention, I am only going into the office once a week in this brave new pandemic world.

but yes, after work, and on weekends, I'm sure the wife and I will plan some trips to come and wander around for the morning, maybe even do some impulse buying at the random shops in which we may stop. if we have to pay $10 for parking though, will it be worth it for us to come here vs the Houston Farmers Market on Airline, or Rice Village?

Are you really trying to claim that Discovery Green has not been successful?    FWIW, I was not comparing the projects, but the comments/complaints/criticisms from HAIFers.  We were treated to the same arguments against Discovery Green as we're hearing about Post.  Bad location. People won't venture over there. No one will drive in from outside downtown to go there because of parking/traffic/bad location, etc etc.  It's too far from everything else downtown. It's not on the way to or from anything else.

[samagon]

18 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

Are you really trying to claim that Discovery Green has not been successful?    FWIW, I was not comparing the projects, but the comments/complaints/criticisms from HAIFers.  We were treated to the same arguments against Discovery Green as we're hearing about Post.  Bad location. People won't venture over there. No one will drive in from outside downtown to go there because of parking/traffic/bad location, etc etc.  It's too far from everything else downtown. It's not on the way to or from anything else.

not at all. it has been widely successful, and has events that draw crowds on weekends because the conservators format things and it has things that make it unique compared with other parks that might have free parking, or are closer to the people that go.

just not a huge hit on weekdays during business hours.

since post HTX isn't a public park, that is a pretty big difference between this place and disco, so it can't be a 1/1 comparison on what constitutes 'success'.

for the record, I never thought disco wouldn't be a success, I always thought it would be, and I do think it is a great success. that being said, there aren't many parallels that can be drawn between it and post.

let's look at other things that are comparable, like green street. did you think that would be a success? do you think it is currently a success? will post be different, and how?

Edited July 20, 2021 by samagon

[staresatmaps]

43 minutes ago, samagon said:

I mean, I guess if you want to use disco green as an example that works, and may actually be a bad comparison, because 5 days out of the week it's pretty ghost-townish during normal business hours.

This is not true. There is always people there now unless its its a bad weather day.

[arche_757]

I don’t think anyone wants this project to not be a wonderful catalyst for the area.  I hope it’s very successful, and I also hope the governmental entities (local, state and federal) can work towards solidifying the Postal Bend?  (Maybe we can get a Kevin Costner statue to go along with the quirky development?)

Reworking the roads would be huge to making an big impact here.  Additionally, reworking heavy rail to shift a station element into this project (or a future phase) would be great.  

[HtownWxBoy]

1 hour ago, samagon said:

I mean, I guess if you want to use disco green as an example that works, and may actually be a bad comparison, because 5 days out of the week it's pretty ghost-townish during normal business hours.

I walk across Disco Green several times a week during the early afternoon hours (usually between 1pm and 4pm) and there are always people there ... especially now that more and more people are vaccinated and back to pre-covid life.  Of course on weekends it's much more crowded but even during weekdays there are people walking around and kids enjoying the playground and fountains. 

[j_cuevas713]

I hardly ever see DG dead. It may get slow just like anywhere else but it stays pretty damn busy. 

[Houston19514]

56 minutes ago, samagon said:

not at all. it has been widely successful, and has events that draw crowds on weekends because the conservators format things and it has things that make it unique compared with other parks that might have free parking, or are closer to the people that go.

just not a huge hit on weekdays during business hours.

since post HTX isn't a public park, that is a pretty big difference between this place and disco, so it can't be a 1/1 comparison on what constitutes 'success'.

for the record, I never thought disco wouldn't be a success, I always thought it would be, and I do think it is a great success. that being said, there aren't many parallels that can be drawn between it and post.

let's look at other things that are comparable, like green street. did you think that would be a success? do you think it is currently a success? will post be different, and how?

For the record, you're the only one suggesting that we compare Discovery Green or any other project to Post.  If you want to do that, have at it.  

[bobruss]

Official Time Out.

[samagon]

13 hours ago, HtownWxBoy said:

I walk across Disco Green several times a week during the early afternoon hours (usually between 1pm and 4pm) and there are always people there ... especially now that more and more people are vaccinated and back to pre-covid life.  Of course on weekends it's much more crowded but even during weekdays there are people walking around and kids enjoying the playground and fountains. 

 

13 hours ago, staresatmaps said:

This is not true. There is always people there now unless its its a bad weather day.

success for a park is not the same as success for business. civic projects can't be compared to what would be needed to sustain retail.

13 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

For the record, you're the only one suggesting that we compare Discovery Green or any other project to Post.  If you want to do that, have at it.  

you, sir, invoked disco:

17 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

This thread reminds me of the Discovery Green thread.  Thank goodness there are developers and others in this city with more vision than the average HAIFer.

the only comparison I made was that disco doesn't have numbers I'd think might sustain as much business as any mall like thing that needs retail in a really high rent district needs to survive. I even tried to reference green street as a much better example in the same post that I responded to your quote above.

can we talk about the wild success of green street as a direct comparison, or are you going to continue to hone in on the one sentence I had about disco in response to your post about disco, before having many other things to say that have nothing to do with disco, and continue to put words in my mouth? 

I do apologize to all for even stating one sentence about discovery green in response to someone else bringing it up, and then for continuing to talk about discovery green when it was suggested that I didn't think it is a successful park.

further, @Houston19514 I also apologize for misunderstanding your original post. we both probably could have saved a lot of typing if you had told me your intention wasn't to build a comparison between the two, no matter how obvious you might have thought that was, I did misunderstand it to be a comparison, so again, apologies for my misunderstanding. 

Edited July 21, 2021 by samagon

[arche_757]

Post will sink or swim regardless of what anyone on here wants or thinks.

I do think that OMA has done a tremendous job with what was a very nondescript building.  I actually find it a much better repurposed building (overlooking projected uses) than what is happening in Midtown with sHoP at the ion.  (Obviously I love that the old Sears is being turned into something for the greater good, and I’m thrilled to see what will come from ion… just architecturally they’re not really equal.)

In fantasy world: I think I kind of would rather have seen Post & ion swap places…?

[cityliving]

[BeerNut]

LiveNation has scheduled a concert here for Nov 19

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by BeerNut
add stuff

[gene]

wowsa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! love both...see ya there!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cityliving]

[X.R.]

Whats going on in the brown space on the roof in the top third of the roof? Is that soil or is it being prepped for something else? Anyone know?

And thanks @citylivingfor your greatness!

[BEES?!]

23 hours ago, X.R. said:

Whats going on in the brown space on the roof in the top third of the roof? Is that soil or is it being prepped for something else? Anyone know?

And thanks @citylivingfor your greatness!

I believe that’s the rooftop farm. 

[Highrise Tower]

POST Houston - Catering Preparation.

[cloud713]

https://fb.watch/7ov0gp_ZLo/


The last 30 seconds they talk about potentially adding residential and/or office developments on the surface lot spaces, and more connections to the bayou/city in the future.

I also noticed this on a Facebook ad. Hoping 713 Music Hall isn’t the official name, but saw there are 5 other concerts scheduled in addition to the 2 Rufus shows.

http://713MusicHall.com

Edited August 15, 2021 by cloud713

[Twinsanity02]

7 hours ago, cloud713 said:

https://fb.watch/7ov0gp_ZLo/


The last 30 seconds they talk about potentially adding residential and/or office developments on the surface lot spaces, and more connections to the bayou/city in the future.

I also noticed this on a Facebook ad. Hoping 713 Music Hall isn’t the official name, but saw there are 5 other concerts scheduled in addition to the 2 Rufus shows.

http://713MusicHall.com

Wonderful plans and design. My only fear is location. Unless some shuttle is provided the number of office workers going there for lunch is going to be minimal.

[Two]

4 hours ago, Twinsanity02 said:

Wonderful plans and design. My only fear is location. Unless some shuttle is provided the number of office workers going there for lunch is going to be minimal.

Even if it's not a DT business lunch spot destination I think this area generally is going through a lot of change and all of the developers are mindful about each others interconnect.  The push to connect decent trails out to east river, its already a direct connect to Washington, the flip of the neighboring warehouse district including in it additional res units, the expansion of UHD, the apartments getting crammed in from hardy yards to north Eado, the additional res towers in DT, the gorgeous new bagby trail. The north canal simplifying that connection between these previously mentioned areas of activity. 4 months out of the year its a bit hot but people often forget that Houston for the rest of the year is really mild (excluding occassional 2 wk mega disasters like harvey or freezes - but that would apply to any venue at all).

(also if it happens, east river at one point mentioned running a ferry to the landing, even if they don't it still speaks they are pretty aware of this being some sort of future urban activity corridor)

They've got the parking for events and suburbanites traveling in but I don't think the long game depends on it.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Two

[77011transplant]

13 hours ago, cloud713 said:

https://fb.watch/7ov0gp_ZLo/


The last 30 seconds they talk about potentially adding residential and/or office developments on the surface lot spaces, and more connections to the bayou/city in the future.

I also noticed this on a Facebook ad. Hoping 713 Music Hall isn’t the official name, but saw there are 5 other concerts scheduled in addition to the 2 Rufus shows.

http://713MusicHall.com

I'm pretty sure 713 Music Hall is the official name.

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

On 8/15/2021 at 3:59 PM, 77011transplant said:

I'm pretty sure 713 Music Hall is the official name.

puke.

But, coming from their incompetent marketing department, I'm not surprised

[pablog]

On 8/15/2021 at 3:59 PM, 77011transplant said:

I'm pretty sure 713 Music Hall is the official name.

The Terminal was a much cooler name. 

[Houston19514]

They should have gone with postal Zip Code, rather than telephone area code.   Maybe "02 Music Hall"

[BEES?!]

In sorta-related news, the inner Katy BRT self-guided virtual public meeting is online now, and one of the proposed stations they’ve added is for Franklin St. 

That connectivity would do incredible things for POST if it winds up being included!

(they’re open for comments until 8/31, btw)

[kennyc05]

Can these lines be converted to rail later?

[wilcal]

4 hours ago, kennyc05 said:

Can these lines be converted to rail later?

Not really? They are talking about using some of the existing HOV elevated portions, so I doubt those could be re-used. 

[j_cuevas713]

35 minutes ago, wilcal said:

Not really? They are talking about using some of the existing HOV elevated portions, so I doubt those could be re-used. 

Does anyone on the this forum know what it would take structurally to convert to rail? I’m assuming some additional supports? 

[wilcal]

7 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Does anyone on the this forum know what it would take structurally to convert to rail? I’m assuming some additional supports? 

Structurally it is probably not too bad, but you would have to build a new HOV/HOT setup for cars.

There really haven't been too many BRT to LRT conversions, but generally the only money "saved" is from not needing to acquire new ROW. Here is a post from Ottawa doing their conversion. TLDR: better to spend conversion money on a new line elsewhere and not worth shutting the BRT line down while conversion takes place. 

[MexAmerican_Moose]

bridge girders/foundations are probably going to be designed for truck loads, not rail loads...gonna need some serious retrofit/$$$ after....unless someone can design a really, really lightweight train/tram

Edited August 18, 2021 by MexAmerican_Moose

[KirbyDriveKid]

I know busses are a lot less sexy than rail (and I do love rail) but true BRT systems can be really great and if anyone hasn't looked up some of the really impressive systems in places like Bogota then I'd definitely recommend it.  I was blown away when I visited to see how extensive the system was and how many people were using it.  Also the lower per-mile cost could be very important for building out a full system in an expansive city like Houston.

[j_cuevas713]

20 minutes ago, KirbyDriveKid said:

I know busses are a lot less sexy than rail (and I do love rail) but true BRT systems can be really great and if anyone hasn't looked up some of the really impressive systems in places like Bogota then I'd definitely recommend it.  I was blown away when I visited to see how extensive the system was and how many people were using it.  Also the lower per-mile cost could be very important for building out a full system in an expansive city like Houston.

Exactly! Also let's not forget that the city is extending the light rail to North Shepherd and Hobby Airport. I could see Washington Avenue with light rail in the near future.

[Luminare]

8 hours ago, wilcal said:

Structurally it is probably not too bad, but you would have to build a new HOV/HOT setup for cars.

There really haven't been too many BRT to LRT conversions, but generally the only money "saved" is from not needing to acquire new ROW. Here is a post from Ottawa doing their conversion. TLDR: better to spend conversion money on a new line elsewhere and not worth shutting the BRT line down while conversion takes place. 

The only reason to do an upgrade would be if capacity exceeds the mode of transit. Its the only reason why I'm fine with this initially being BRT or future extensions to Houston transit being BRT. Its a great way of introducing transit while on a tight budget while at the same time you are introduce/reintroducing mass transit to population that previously rarely used it. We won't know the full effectiveness of this corridor until TCR finishes its HSR project.

[j_cuevas713]

28 minutes ago, Luminare said:

The only reason to do an upgrade would be if capacity exceeds the mode of transit. Its the only reason why I'm fine with this initially being BRT or future extensions to Houston transit being BRT. Its a great way of introducing transit while on a tight budget while at the same time you are introduce/reintroducing mass transit to population that previously rarely used it. We won't know the full effectiveness of this corridor until TCR finishes its HSR project.

Man this thing is going to explode when it’s built. The same for Richmond Ave. 

[Luminare]

14 minutes ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Man this thing is going to explode when it’s built. The same for Richmond Ave. 

Will see. Richmond should be a great line because it hits a lot of key areas people want to or need to go. The Katy Corridor needs more time. If they were to extend it deeper into the suburbs later than it could work or when HSR is completed. There a few here in Utah like in Provo which seem to be a big success. I think another one is going up in Ogden at some point. I know SLC is looking into BRT for expansion efforts. LRT is still a better long term option, but ridership in general needs to increase in these cities to even begin the conversation of more rail at this point. Same goes for Houston.

[cityliving]

Edited August 28, 2021 by cityliving

[IntheKnowHouston]

A ramen concept has likely signed on as a tenant for Post Market, the food hall and market at Post Houston, 401 Franklin.

Ramen Moto, a ramen concept from Mike Tran (Tiger Den), is possibly opening here. Tran previously announced Ramen Moto would join his other restaurants at the Yun-Lin Center in Asiatown. That could still be a possibility (I don't know because I haven't asked).

However, it appears Ramen Moto will be part of Post Market's food & beverage roster.

Either earlier this week or last week, an entity for Ramen Moto Post HTX was filed, suggesting this may be another food stall tenant for Post Market.

Edited August 30, 2021 by IntheKnowHouston
I'm uncertain if Tran is still involved with Aka, so I removed the restaurant.

[IntheKnowHouston]

Local small batch craft ice cream parlor Flower & Cream is likely opening a food stall at Post Houston's Post Market.

I haven't received confirmation, but I do know the business is planning another location. If true (and it's very likely it is), this will be their second location in Houston.

Also, some of you may have heard rumors of Turkey Leg Hut possibly opening a food stall at 401 Franklin. It's been rumored for at least two or three years.

I remember reading an Instagram comment about this from someone involved with creating a curated tenant roster for Post Market. Supposedly, Lovett reached out to Turkey Leg Hut to express their interest in the restaurant joining their food hall lineup. It's possible the next round of food stalls and restaurants announced for Post Market may include Turkey Leg Hut.

I also wouldn't count out one or a few more FAM Hospitality concepts. Prior to the last round of food hall announcements this summer, I had a hunch more concepts from Paul Qui & FAM Hospitality were on the way and I was right. Plus it seems Lovett's Kirby Liu is all in on Qui when lots of Houstonians aren't, at least judging from some of his past Instagram posts & photos with Qui (some since deleted).

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by IntheKnowHouston

[IntheKnowHouston]

Oh and according to several Instagram food bloggers and vloggers, Post Houston and Post Market will have it's grand opening November 13.

Last week, Lovett Commercial hosted a hard hat tour for influencers. You can scope out the latest build out updates by searching posts tagging Post Houston or posts geotagged at Post Houston.

[BEES?!]

Wow, awesome! I think I saw snippets of the hard hat tour- one of the local news stations was airing it I believe. (Maybe FOX 26?)

[cityliving]

Where I-10 and I-45 Interchange-Post Office and Downtown in center. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by cityliving

[BEES?!]

Nice shots as always! 😀

[hindesky]

All the fencing is down around the whole project. Asked a security guard when it will open, he said November. I assume they are flying up vegetation for any that died in the freeze.

[Houston19514]

8 minutes ago, hindesky said:

All the fencing is down around the whole project. Asked a security guard when it will open, he said November. I assume they are flying up vegetation for any that died in the freeze.

Had they already installed plants on the roof  before the freeze?

[kbates2]

They have not planted the food garden yet, I assume that is what they are flying up.

Edited September 27, 2021 by kbates2

[gene]

can't wait to see Rufus Du Sol here 11/19/21!  

already loving Post Houston and haven't even been there yet! 😀

[hindesky]

POST Houston, the abandoned post office turned eatery and concert hall, sets opening date

For years, the Barbara Jordan Post Office in downtown Houston has been quietly transforming into POST Houston: a mixed-use development including an eatery inspired by night markets where small vendors sell street food in Asia, a 5.5-acre rooftop park where a revolving music stage takes in views of the skyline and a warehouse-style concert venue. Now, the developer behind the project, Lovett Commercial, has announced POST Houston’s grand opening date: Nov. 13

The features of the project include a glowing double helix stretches to the top of the 555,000 square-foot former mail-sorting warehouse, one of a number of unusual staircases leading to the roof, as well as a translucent, lightweight plastic known as ETFE and designed for the aerospace industry. It stretches in bubbles across large, excised portions of the ceiling, letting natural light filter down into a food hall.

Rooftop gardens, where restaurants can request ingredients to be grown, will unfold overhead. Blackwood Land Education Institute, a group that runs a 33-acre nonprofit teaching farm in Waller County, will also sell vegetables, fruits and herbs it grows in the rooftop gardens for people to take home and use.

The sprawling complex incorporates restaurants, retail and office space, a hotel, concert hall and a wedding venue. Lovett Commercial announced that first tenants will include the flexible workspace provider Common Desk and several restaurants.

Common Desk will provide a mix of coworking, private offices and office suites.

“We’re excited to provide uniquely amenitized coworking space for the project in addition to designing the move-in-ready suites that (the commercial real estate firm) CBRE will lease,” said Dawson Williams, head of real estate at Common Desk, in a release.

Newly announced restaurants include the wood-fired pizzeria Roberta’s, which hails from Brooklyn, G’Raj Mahal, an Indian food spot that traces its roots to Austin’s food trucks, Motto Ramen, run by Houstonian behind Chinatown’s Tiger Den and Rollin Phatties a Pakistani food truck that’s making the jump to brick and mortar. Whisk Crêpes Café, Thrive Juices, Flower & Cream, Earth and Roots CBD and Return to Sender & Address Unknown will also be tenants on opening day.

Previously announced tenants include Golfstrømmen Seafood Market, Saison Cellar, Salt & Time Butcher Shop, The Butcher’s Burger, Hawker Street Food Bar, East Side King, ChòpnBlọk, Andes Café, Thai Kun, Soy Pinoy, Lea Jane’s Hot Chicken, Taco Fuego, BlendIn Coffee Club, Abu Omar Halal, GELU Italian Ice, Sweets with L&L and SOUPreme.

rebecca.schuetz@chron.com;

twitter.com/raschuetz

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/article/POST-Houston-the-abandoned-post-office-turned-16500091.php

[hindesky]

I was sent an email with this link to get free tickets to the grand opening on Nov. 13th.

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/post-grand-opening-tickets-183000037037

[InTheLoopFromNYC]

What am I missing? I mean, don't get me wrong, cool interiors and rooftop spaces, but what about the exterior? Most people see this thing from the outside and frankly, its as ugly as its always been! 

With a November opening, seems what you see is what you're going to get -- to me it looks like umm, an old post office processing facility and offices! Why no significant improvements to the exteriors? I mean, not like this place was landmarked or had an exterior with anything worth preserving!