Downtown Retail Market

[TGM]

Yes, but toll roads necessarily have a price structure that doesn't differentiate between big and small passenger cars. And agreed on the weight difference being small, but the size difference as it impacts lane width and overall congestion is more significant.

Yes, Metro buses do tear up our streets, do cause congestion, and some how get their own lanes.

[kylejack]

Every road the government builds is already a toll road. The difference is instead of an EZ tag you use a 1040EZ. (Or at the gas pump, or through property taxes, or, or, or...) Now there those that don't pay any of the above, and yet somehow they feel entitled to demand that those that do pony up even more dollars.

 

I pay taxes and so do you. So when you tell me to "pay up" for infrastructure, you and I already do.

[august948]

Enter global warming and sea level rise, I'm just sayin' get your beach-front property in Sunnyside now!!! 

 

As the crow flies, I'm about 60 miles from the ocean, so I'll stay put and wait for it to come to me.  Can I sue Al Gore if global warming doesn't make my property beach-front by the time I retire?

[H-Town Man]

Even if we all drove Fiat 500s, the toll road lanes will remain the same width.  You may have noticed our highways also serve to transport freight on trucks. 

 

I think much of the increase in lane widths over the past few decades is due to convenience for drivers in larger cars.  Even if I'm wrong on that, larger vehicles still contribute more to congestion.  A hundred SUVs and pickups trying to merge from 3 lanes to 2 cannot do so nearly as quickly as a hundred Fiat 500s.

 

 

Every road the government builds is already a toll road. The difference is instead of an EZ tag you use a 1040EZ. (Or at the gas pump, or through property taxes, or, or, or...) Now there those that don't pay any of the above, and yet somehow they feel entitled to demand that those that do pony up even more dollars.

 

The point about toll roads is that every passenger car pays the same, whereas traditional funding is primarily through the gas tax, which demands that larger cars pay more (as they should).

[jgriff]

We all pay for the highways because we all use them. Even if you stay inside the hieghts or midtown for your entire life you still get huge benefits from the highway system. ALl those 18 wheelers are carrying the products that you buy to make your life in the city possible. I'm not against mass transit, I ride Metro buses all the time, but just remember our highways are not just about getting people from the suburbs into the city.

[kylejack]

We all pay for the highways because we all use them. Even if you stay inside the hieghts or midtown for your entire life you still get huge benefits from the highway system. ALl those 18 wheelers are carrying the products that you buy to make your life in the city possible. I'm not against mass transit, I ride Metro buses all the time, but just remember our highways are not just about getting people from the suburbs into the city.

 

I don't own a car and rarely take a bus that uses the highways. Sure, I rely on goods brought in by highway, but so too do citizens depend on employees to be brought by mass transit to work at restaurants, grocery stores, and etc. that we all shop at. Highways and mass transit are both an integral part of a well-functioning city.

[TGM]

Cars allow too much freedom and autonomy which is why we overlords must find pet causes and issues to corral the masses into "options" that allow us greater control over their movements. Reliance on municipal services creates further dependance, and can be used to our advantage in games of carrot and stick. The challenge is identifying and staying on top of modern societies' versions of bread and circuses. As it currently stands Superbowl 2017 should provide enough justification for any increase in taxation, fees, and restrictions.

Edited May 23, 2013 by TGM

[Houston19514]

I think much of the increase in lane widths over the past few decades is due to convenience for drivers in larger cars.  Even if I'm wrong on that, larger vehicles still contribute more to congestion.  A hundred SUVs and pickups trying to merge from 3 lanes to 2 cannot do so nearly as quickly as a hundred Fiat 500s.

 

Any chance you can refer to us to some traffic engineering studies showing any of those things to be true or even likely?

[TGM]

I think much of the increase in lane widths over the past few decades is due to convenience for drivers in larger cars. Even if I'm wrong on that, larger vehicles still contribute more to congestion. A hundred SUVs and pickups trying to merge from 3 lanes to 2 cannot do so nearly as quickly as a hundred Fiat 500s.

Any chance you can refer to us to some traffic engineering studies showing any of those things to be true or even likely?

Probably not, because majority of traffic jams are the result of individual actions as concluded by a recent study.

http://gizmodo.com/5984934/most-traffic-jams-are-caused-by-just-a-handful-of-idiots

The argument that the Fiat would be better judges traffic as solely being caused by length of vehicle not number of variables per driver. However if the individual is the cause of traffic, then it's ever worse with a small car as now you have doubled the amount of drivers with the potential to make poor choices in the space that would hold one SUV or pick-up driver.

So what is viewed as efficiency by fitting more cars in the same space is actually detrimental as the number of drivers and variables has increased.

Edited May 24, 2013 by TGM

[mfastx]

We all pay for the highways because we all use them. Even if you stay inside the hieghts or midtown for your entire life you still get huge benefits from the highway system. ALl those 18 wheelers are carrying the products that you buy to make your life in the city possible. I'm not against mass transit, I ride Metro buses all the time, but just remember our highways are not just about getting people from the suburbs into the city.

 

While that is completely true, the amount of money we spend on highways is unnecessary.  18-wheelers don't need 10 lane highways. 

[H-Town Man]

Any chance you can refer to us to some traffic engineering studies showing any of those things to be true or even likely?

 

For lane width, I allowed that I could be wrong, so obviously I don't have a sheaf of traffic studies on it.  No reason to hound me.

 

For smaller cars merging more quickly than larger cars, it's common sense.  A longer car needs more room to get in and therefore has to wait for a longer gap, slowing down the people behind it in both lanes.  Compare cars trying to merge to sand grains in an hourglass.  Which fall through more quickly, the small grains or the large ones?

[H-Town Man]

Cars allow too much freedom and autonomy which is why we overlords must find pet causes and issues to corral the masses into "options" that allow us greater control over their movements. Reliance on municipal services creates further dependance, and can be used to our advantage in games of carrot and stick. The challenge is identifying and staying on top of modern societies' versions of bread and circuses. As it currently stands Superbowl 2017 should provide enough justification for any increase in taxation, fees, and restrictions.

 

This is all ideology and conspiracy theory.

[H-Town Man]

The argument that the Fiat would be better judges traffic as solely being caused by length of vehicle not number of variables per driver. However if the individual is the cause of traffic, then it's ever worse with a small car as now you have doubled the amount of drivers with the potential to make poor choices in the space that would hold one SUV or pick-up driver.

 

When did I say that length of vehicle was the sole cause of traffic?  Of course individual error plays a huge role.  But individuals will make errors in any size car you put them in.  If they are in larger cars  though, the traffic jam will be worse. 

 

This is really simple and I'm surprised it's being debated.

[samagon]

Every road the government builds is already a toll road. The difference is instead of an EZ tag you use a 1040EZ. (Or at the gas pump, or through property taxes, or, or, or...) Now there those that don't pay any of the above, and yet somehow they feel entitled to demand that those that do pony up even more dollars.

 

Which was my point.

 

I'm being tolled for roads I will never use.

 

This is the same argument that people use for rail lines and the rail lines get shot down repeatedly for the same reason.

 

Why there's even a ballot for rail in the first place is beyond me, it should be funded and built in the same way as a freeway.

[samagon]

We all pay for the highways because we all use them. Even if you stay inside the hieghts or midtown for your entire life you still get huge benefits from the highway system. ALl those 18 wheelers are carrying the products that you buy to make your life in the city possible. I'm not against mass transit, I ride Metro buses all the time, but just remember our highways are not just about getting people from the suburbs into the city.

 

This is, in point of fact, incorrect.

 

I do not use, nor do I benefit from the grand parkway.

 

The amount of impact that the grand parkway has on my daily life is about the same as 40,000 people a day getting to use a single rail line is to the people who live off the grand parkway.

 

as an example of this, say there's a truck that can ship goods to somewhere I can use them 30 minutes faster by using the grand parkway. the same is true of a truck that doesn't have to deal with the traffic created by an additional 40,000 cars a day on the red line corridor.

[august948]

Which was my point.

I'm being tolled for roads I will never use.

This is the same argument that people use for rail lines and the rail lines get shot down repeatedly for the same reason.

Why there's even a ballot for rail in the first place is beyond me, it should be funded and built in the same way as a freeway.

That's a very good point. The reason there's a referendum, though, is that there's political opposition to rail that doesn't exist for freeway expansion. Those who want to implement rail essentially have to provide proof that there is voter demand.

The way our system is set up, we're all tolled or taxed for infrastructure we don't use. I've never driven route 66, but I pay to keep it maintained. It comes down to how we, and the politicians we elect, want that money used.

[samagon]

That's a very good point. The reason there's a referendum, though, is that there's political opposition to rail that doesn't exist for freeway expansion. Those who want to implement rail essentially have to provide proof that there is voter demand.

The way our system is set up, we're all tolled or taxed for infrastructure we don't use. I've never driven route 66, but I pay to keep it maintained. It comes down to how we, and the politicians we elect, want that money used.

 

yeah, that's true, I suppose that when it has come up for vote in the past, people had their chance to speak, and the politicians didn't listen anyway.

[UtterlyUrban]

List your first and second priority here. What would you like to see (viewed through the lens of what you think would be successful!).

Personally, I would like to see:

1) a department store. Macy's/foley's made it all those years before losing the lease. Maybe (gasp) a small Nordstom? If not, I'll take a Macy's or Dillard's or something.

2) something like a TJ Max, Marshalls, or Steinmart.

[Texasota]

1) H&M

2) Apple store

[Chi-Char-Hou-Dal]

1. Dollar General

2. Used Piano Store

3. A Cash Checking Spot

 

Don't feed the trolls or they will bite back!

 

Seriously... I would say

 

1.Trader Joes (small footprint) and better than fighting the mess on Alabama from MIdtown. New reidents got to eat and I don't think it would kill Phoenicia which I love.

 

2.A country bar like a little gimicky but a real honky tonk. It's honestly the only thing DFW has on us; rebels

 

ha this response should be fun to watch !

 

[Mab]

1) I would like at least two anchor stores in downtown for example

-Macy's

-Target

 

2) I would also love two specialty grocery stores to help the increase residential population my preference would be

-Trader Joe's

-Fresh Market

 

3) I think downtown also needs retail stores for example H&M, apple and sephora to bring more competition in Downtown Houston 

 

 

 

[HoustonBoy]

1) H & M

2) Apple

3) HEB/Target/Groceries

[Nate99]

Hardware store. 

[Howard Huge]

Liquor Store

Beauty Store/wig shop

Gun store

Pawn shop

Nail salon

Frenchys chicken

[arche_757]

Some of these are priceless... bravo!

 

To be serious:

- Trader Joes over near Market Square

- Whole Foods in the old Sakowitz Building with some additional retail mixed in (maybe a full service spa on the upper level with cafe+roof terrace?)

- Whole Earth Provision near Sunset Coffee Structural Frame (or similar company)

- Bookseller that's unique - think Brazos Books with an attached lecture/multi-use space somewhere historic district

- Maybe another Ginger Man/Flying Saucer type of place DT?  I mean Flying Saucer doesn't have anything more than a table or two outside.  Something with a beer garden and maybe a few pub grub places nearby.  Something for people who want an evening out that's not $$$.

 

I realize most of these are not going to happen, but the question was asked.

[Nate99]

Liquor Store

Beauty Store/wig shop

Gun store

Pawn shop

Nail salon

Frenchys chicken

 

You forgot peeler club. 

 

We do have the Burlesque place now, though it's not really the same thing. 

[Sky-guy]

1. HEB, Kroger, etc.

2. Cell store (Verizon, T-mobile, AT&T) or an Apple store.

[Nate99]

1. HEB, Kroger, etc.

2. Cell store (Verizon, T-mobile, AT&T) or an Apple store.

 

AT&T has a store Main @ McKinney where Krispy Kreme was once located. 

[UtterlyUrban]

Curious:

For the folks mentioning an Apple store: why?

I am not arguing, I would just like to understand why an Apple store became "tops" on your list. With all the retail needs in downtown for food, clothing, etc, ...... Why the consideration for an Apple store?

[contraviento78]

Probably because a larger percentage of downtowners/midtowners have apple products and its a hassle to travel to Highland VIllage (i believe thats the closest location)!! 

 

I for one would care for: 

 

1) Apple Store

2) Macy's

3) H&M 

 

 

Target is already close enough, I don't think they could justify a downtown location. 

 

 

Curious:

For the folks mentioning an Apple store: why?

I am not arguing, I would just like to understand why an Apple store became "tops" on your list. With all the retail needs in downtown for food, clothing, etc, ...... Why the consideration for an Apple store?