Downtown Retail Market

[icanluv2]

Parking is going to be even more of a b**** when they start building that shopping center and retail stores!

[/quot

the shopping center has its own dedicated parking garage. I am a bit surprised at the comment if you read HAIF downtown has an abundant amount of parking lots to service the demand.

I don't think it will be enough if the demand is high as many expect it to be. The new park downtown will have many boutiques around it also. I guess it depends on the type of stores. If you have high end stores, then sure it will be ok. Rich people also don't mind to pay for parking and can afford expense items. If you have lower end or typical stores, you will have a problem with too many people coming, especially big sales. However, if they charge for parking then that will turn off potential shoppers assuming lower end stores. That is going to be important.

Edited March 13, 2007 by icanluv2

[icanluv2]

Downtown Houston needs to follow the same plan as the Gas Lamp district in San Diego. I really enjoyed it! I am not sure if i went all over it, but after walking for quite some time around there, i didn't see many nite clubs. Maybe that is why it is so successful. Many nice restaurants. Just a very festive time. Seriously, Houston needs to follow the Gas Lamp district model.

[musicman]

Downtown Houston needs to follow the same plan as the Gas Lamp district in San Diego. I really enjoyed it! I am not sure if i went all over it, but after walking for quite some time around there, i didn't see many nite clubs. Maybe that is why it is so successful. Many nice restaurants. Just a very festive time. Seriously, Houston needs to follow the Gas Lamp district model.

Downtown Houston can be its own entity and doesn't need to follow any plans. you must remember the properties are individually owned and the owners dictate what is put there. the city can encourage certain things but can't dictate.

[Vertigo58]

Downtown Houston needs to follow the same plan as the Gas Lamp district in San Diego. I really enjoyed it! I am not sure if i went all over it, but after walking for quite some time around there, i didn't see many nite clubs. Maybe that is why it is so successful. Many nice restaurants. Just a very festive time. Seriously, Houston needs to follow the Gas Lamp district model.

I remember visiting San Diego and checking out that awesome outdoor mall still have photos. It was so innovative and a real tourist draw. I constantly ask myself why Houston doesn't follow not in imitating but in being as modern and creative. It had outdoor spiral escalators and huge open food courts. Of course the weather there is more ideal. Gas Lamp District is top's I agree!

[what]

Downtown Houston can be its own entity and doesn't need to follow any plans. you must remember the properties are individually owned and the owners dictate what is put there. the city can encourage certain things but can't dictate.

Agreed.

[icanluv2]

Downtown Houston can be its own entity and doesn't need to follow any plans. you must remember the properties are individually owned and the owners dictate what is put there. the city can encourage certain things but can't dictate.

You made a good point. I think Mayor White or whoever is charge of downtown plans needs to get together with business property owners there to see what can be done to make it better. He needs to talk to the private parking lot owners to find a way to get rid of the parking fees period. Maybe some kinda contract or incentive. Also, the city should get rid of parking meters period!

[what]

You made a good point. I think Mayor White or whoever is charge of downtown plans needs to get together with business property owners there to see what can be done to make it better. He needs to talk to the private parking lot owners to find a way to get rid of the parking fees period. Maybe some kinda contract or incentive. Also, the city should get rid of parking meters period!

I think your idea about parking is great.

[musicman]

You made a good point. I think Mayor White or whoever is charge of downtown plans needs to get together with business property owners there to see what can be done to make it better. He needs to talk to the private parking lot owners to find a way to get rid of the parking fees period. Maybe some kinda contract or incentive. Also, the city should get rid of parking meters period!

his goal is to increase parking fees and to increase times when you must pay.

[what]

his goal is to increase parking fees and to increase times when you must pay.

That sounds like the perfect formula for driving people out of downtown ?

Is that their intent in your opinion ?

[musicman]

That sounds like the perfect formula for driving people out of downtown ?

Is that their intent in your opinion ?

IMO their intent is to make more money Regardless of the opinions of the downtown merchants. it's like the red light cameras....a money making venture.

[what]

IMO their intent is to make more money Regardless of the opinions of the downtown merchants. it's like the red light cameras....a money making venture.

Ok. How does that help them or the area ? This approach benefits nobody ?

[musicman]

Ok. How does that help them or the area ? This approach benefits nobody ?

the more money they take in this way, then the less they have to raise the tax rate. i think you can figure out who is benefitting.

[nmainguy]

To move forward may require going back a bit. Downtown (DT) used to be quite livable and walk able. DT was blanketed with covered sidewalks (ala The Rice; Foleys/Macys) that blocked out the harsh sun and heat. Downtown used to be connected to Allen Parkway and the bayou and what we now call Midtown. That was destroyed with 45 and the Pierce elevated. If Boston was able to wrangle the money for the Big Dig then surely we could wrangle a fraction of that to combine 45 with 10 in order to by-pass DT thus reconnecting it to our green space to the west and Midtown to the south. Couldn

[what]

the more money they take in this way, then the less they have to raise the tax rate. i think you can figure out who is benefitting.

I definately understand your point. thanks

[ToolMan]

Have St. Patricks Day every Saturday. All of the bars and restaraunts were full at 2:00pm...it was a nice site.

[what]

Have St. Patricks Day every Saturday. All of the bars and restaraunts were full at 2:00pm...it was a nice site.

It seems that a lot of the places downtown are picking up steam and momentum on the weekends...

[Vertigo58]

It seems that a lot of the places downtown are picking up steam and momentum on the weekends...

Baseball season always helps. Once game is over, people like to venture west to the real action.

[Pumapayam]

Baseball season always helps. Once game is over, people like to venture west to the real action.

Really, I was tired after Sunday's Brewers game and went straight to my car and headed home!

At 27, I already feel like an old man, and I think I got sun burned, but what a beautiful day it was.

[lockmat]

Question.

It's BLVD Place thats anchor is going to be a grocery store, right? And that's supposed to be a small "walkable" community, right?

Well, why can't downtown get a grocery store then? Doesn't downtown already have a population bigger than what BLVD Place intends to house?

[Pumapayam]

Question.

It's BLVD Place thats anchor is going to be a grocery store, right? And that's supposed to be a small "walkable" community, right?

Well, why can't downtown get a grocery store then? Doesn't downtown already have a population bigger than what BLVD Place intends to house?

We are thinking the same thing here. This was my post earlier.

Install more mass transit #1

Have an actual grocery store that is pedestrian friendly #2

then people have a reason to move downtown because they can buy food

Build more highrise and midrise condos and apartments #3

then more people will be around at all hours

Build sidewalk markets like fruit stands and flowers #4

Extend shopping hours past 6 like until 10 p.m. or 12 a.m. #5

Anything to increase sidewalk activity is a good thing.

[lockmat]

We are thinking the same thing here. This was my post earlier.

Anything to increase sidewalk activity is a good thing.

Yeah. I don't understand.

What number is it that people throw around here for how many people are needed in a community to support a grocery store? Is it like 30,000? I forget.

If I remember right, BLVD Place won't have sufficient numbers to "support a grocery store." That is, if my memory serves me right.

Edited May 1, 2007 by lockmat

[TheNiche]

Yeah. I don't understand.

What number is it that people throw around here for how many people are needed in a community to support a grocery store? Is it like 30,000? I forget.

If I remember right, BLVD Place won't have sufficient numbers to "support a grocery store." That is, if my memory serves me right.

There is not a single urban development that has been or will ever be proposed for Houston that will house a sufficient population to justify its own grocery store. Grocery stores exist to tap markets, and markets exist beyond walking distance. In fact, very few people ever walk to do grocery shopping because they'd have to carry too much stuff too great a distance for it to be practical. Given these and space considerations, the downtown area would be more effectively-served by more retailers like CVS or Walgreens that are convenience-oriented, and at some point by a very small specialty grocer; this is what Finger had in mind. The magic number, btw, is about 20,000. For the moment, downtown isn't even close to justifying another.

This is why, for most people, Randall's, Spec's, and Fiesta (all in Midtown) are sufficient. Downtown's problem is not that there is a shortage of people that want to live there, but that it is too highly priced. And downtown retail's problem is that there are too few people that can live there.

[bach]

What number is it that people throw around here for how many people are needed in a community to support a grocery store? Is it like 30,000? I forget.

While residents within 1-2-3 miles are what retailers count, I've heard retail brokers say it'll take 20-25,000 people living within the elevated freeways. Right now there are about 4,000. Marvy's project, when fully occupied, should produce almost 500 more. And when the Old Texaco Building project is eventually converted, that'll add another 500 or so. We've got a way to go.

Retail follows people -- residents, workers, visitors. We've got the workers. Can we really bring retail without enough residents and visitors?

[lockmat]

There is not a single urban development that has been or will ever be proposed for Houston that will house a sufficient population to justify its own grocery store. Grocery stores exist to tap markets, and markets exist beyond walking distance. In fact, very few people ever walk to do grocery shopping because they'd have to carry too much stuff too great a distance for it to be practical. Given these and space considerations, the downtown area would be more effectively-served by more retailers like CVS or Walgreens that are convenience-oriented, and at some point by a very small specialty grocer; this is what Finger had in mind. The magic number, btw, is about 20,000. For the moment, downtown isn't even close to justifying another.

This is why, for most people, Randall's, Spec's, and Fiesta (all in Midtown) are sufficient. Downtown's problem is not that there is a shortage of people that want to live there, but that it is too highly priced. And downtown retail's problem is that there are too few people that can live there.

I'm not very familiar with grocery stores and such in the galleria area. I go there for the mall and that's it. So I don't know how many are in the area. Although I see your point, I think you may have missed mine.

You say very few people walk to do grocery shopping. I can see and agree with that. But isn't that the assumption of how people at BLVD Place are going to be doing theirs? Or did I miss the giant parking lot that's going to serve people living outside those residential towers planned for the project?

While residents within 1-2-3 miles are what retailers count, I've heard retail brokers say it'll take 20-25,000 people living within the elevated freeways. Right now there are about 4,000. Marvy's project, when fully occupied, should produce almost 500 more. And when the Old Texaco Building project is eventually converted, that'll add another 500 or so. We've got a way to go.

Retail follows people -- residents, workers, visitors. We've got the workers. Can we really bring retail without enough residents and visitors?

I think there's another problem as well. As someone mentioned in another thread, many of these high priced condos going up are owned by individuals who own many homes. Therefore, they are probably spending a surmountable time at one, while very little at others, ie downtown, and therefore probably don't/or wouldn't do their main grocery shopping there.

And do add and piggy back on your idea that retail follows residents: Most of the time, I do my grocery shopping right after work, somewhere close to my work. Am I the only person like that? However, I do understand that the workers downtown probably couldn't do that unless there was a parking lot/garage to hold all their cars.

Edited May 1, 2007 by lockmat

[musicman]

Anything to increase sidewalk activity is a good thing.

i'm sure setting off a few fire alarms would do the trick.

[musicman]

I'm not very familiar with grocery stores and such in the galleria area. I go there for the mall and that's it. So I don't know how many are in the area. Although I see your point, I think you may have missed mine.

You say very few people walk to do grocery shopping. I can see and agree with that. But isn't that the assumption of how people at BLVD Place are going to be doing theirs? Or did I miss the giant parking lot that's going to serve people living outside those residential towers planned for the project?

Remember that downtown dwellers live scattered throughout downtown. A store may be built where some could actually walk, however the majority won't be walking. I actually ride my bike to the grocery store about 1/2 the time, however i limit myself to 2-3 bags at most. i usually end up double or triple bagging them. If i had to physically walk, i wouldn't.

And do add and piggy back on your idea that retail follows residents: Most of the time, I do my grocery shopping right after work, somewhere close to my work. Am I the only person like that? However, I do understand that the workers downtown probably couldn't do that unless there was a parking lot/garage to hold all their cars.

I'd say more do it closer to their homes so that the cold food stays cooler.

[lockmat]

Good points. But to counter them just for arguments sake...people could ride the bus. It's not too far and it's cheap. But I guess the same could be said for the stores in midtown niche listed.

Edited May 1, 2007 by lockmat

[musicman]

Good points. But to counter them just for arguments sake...people could ride the bus. It's not too far and it's cheap. But I guess the same could be said for the stores in midtown niche listed.

about 4-6 weeks ago, i was riding the bus and 2 people got on the bus from the fiesta on wayside. it took the two people 3 trips in/out of the bus to get their bags. they got off at downing@leeland. they were obviously shopping for a family due to the number of bags. this was the first time i've seen anyone with a large number of bags actually use the bus. at most usually they carry the 2-4 bags or they may have a two wheeler cart.

[lockmat]

about 4-6 weeks ago, i was riding the bus and 2 people got on the bus from the fiesta on wayside. it took the two people 3 trips in/out of the bus to get their bags. they got off at downing@leeland. they were obviously shopping for a family due to the number of bags. this was the first time i've seen anyone with a large number of bags actually use the bus. at most usually they carry the 2-4 bags or they may have a two wheeler cart.

There are efficient ways to buy groceries and haul them home without using a car. There has to be. It's done in less auto-centric places.

I saw it when I traveled Europe. One thing I remember seeing a lot of people do is roll carry-on like bags behind them. Instead of using bags provided by the store, they used the rolling bags.

It may be less convenient, but one way to avoid lugging many bags is more frequent trips. My guess is that the family who made three trips to get their bags on the bus waited until the 'fridge needed to be restocked. But maybe that's just the ways of our Bulk-happy society?

I'm just throwin around some ideas.

With a new way of living and more people moving to urban areas, new ways of doing everyday things should/must be thought of and taken advantage of.

[Houston19514]

There are efficient ways to buy groceries and haul them home without using a car. There has to be. It's done in less auto-centric places.

I saw it when I traveled Europe. One thing I remember seeing a lot of people do is roll carry-on like bags behind them. Instead of using bags provided by the store, they used the rolling bags.

It may be less convenient, but one way to avoid lugging many bags is more frequent trips. My guess is that the family who made three trips to get their bags on the bus waited until the 'fridge needed to be restocked. But maybe that's just the ways of our Bulk-happy society?

I'm just throwin around some ideas.

With a new way of living and more people moving to urban areas, new ways of doing everyday things should/must be thought of and taken advantage of.

You got it right. In European cities (where the homes generally have TINY refrigerators and much less storage generally) and in dense American cities (ie. NYC) people pick up groceries much more often, so you can carry (or haul in a little 2-wheeled grocery tote), everything home on the walk, or at worst, bus or subway ride.