Downtown Retail Market

[The Great Hizzy!]

Actually, most U.S. cities have pretty dead downtowns, and many of them even more so than Houston. Philadelphia, Washington, Boston, New York, Chicago, Seattle and San Francisco are among the few exceptions. Most other cities, however, aren't really happening either.

I'm still baffled by this prevailing notion that every social ill in this country is "the worse" in Houston. I mean, really, what happened over the last twenty years before I moved here? There's a real psychosis among some people in this city.

[Houston19514]

Actually, most U.S. cities have pretty dead downtowns, and many of them even more so than Houston. Philadelphia, Washington, Boston, New York, Chicago, Seattle and San Francisco are among the few exceptions. Most other cities, however, aren't really happening either.

I'm still baffled by this prevailing notion that every social ill in this country is "the worse" in Houston. I mean, really, what happened over the last twenty years before I moved here? There's a real psychosis among some people in this city.

MAN, you are SO right, Great Hizzy!

[Daniepwils]

I was refering more to the bigger cities. Houston is the 4th largest city, we should be up there with New York, Boston and San Fran. LA and Houston, have pretty scummy (after work hours) downtowns compaired to other cities such as: Philadelphia, Washington, Boston, New York, Chicago, Seattle.

Don't get me wrong, I think Houston can do it, I wouldn't live downtown if I didn't think anything was going to happen. We just need a mayor who is interested in doing something with our Downtown, not relying on the next mayor to do something.

(also if you haven't noticed, crime rate in downtown has increased between the hours of 7pm - 7am) I really don't want to have to goto a 6 hour course just to carry a gun to run to the gym everynight. (;o))

[Pumapayam]

I really don't want to have to goto a 6 hour course just to carry a gun to run to the gym everynight. (;o))

I have some pretty big guns just from working out anyways .

But I do see your point. Crime is a factor.

[Houston19514]

I was refering more to the bigger cities. Houston is the 4th largest city, we should be up there with New York, Boston and San Fran. LA and Houston, have pretty scummy (after work hours) downtowns compaired to other cities such as: Philadelphia, Washington, Boston, New York, Chicago, Seattle.

Don't get me wrong, I think Houston can do it, I wouldn't live downtown if I didn't think anything was going to happen. We just need a mayor who is interested in doing something with our Downtown, not relying on the next mayor to do something.

(also if you haven't noticed, crime rate in downtown has increased between the hours of 7pm - 7am) I really don't want to have to goto a 6 hour course just to carry a gun to run to the gym everynight. (;o))

I'm surprised at the comment that Houston just needs a mayor who is interested in doing something with our downtown. It seems to me we've had a prettty good string of mayors who are indeed so interested and have already done quite a bit. MinuteMaid Park, Toyota Center, expansion of GRB, Hilton Americas, MetroRail, Discovery Green, ...

[Daniepwils]

MinuteMaid Park, Toyota Center, expansion of GRB, Hilton Americas, MetroRail

Were all done for two reasons: Super Bowl and Olympics, not for downtown.

Our MetroRail is a joke, now its just in its infacy, so I will give it time. (Dallas has a very good MetroRail, now they just need more businesses in downtown)

MinuteMaid Park, Toyota Center were built basically because we were forced to build or loose teams, not for downtown.

I will give you Discovery Park, that is probably the only thing that has been done for downtown, I am not sure how the mayor has played into the park, so I have nothing to say against that.

Edited October 17, 2006 by Daniepwils

[Houston19514]

MinuteMaid Park, Toyota Center, expansion of GRB, Hilton Americas, MetroRail

Were all done for two reasons: Super Bowl and Olympics, not for downtown.

Our MetroRail is a joke, now its just in its infacy, so I will give it time. (Dallas has a very good MetroRail, now they just need more businesses in downtown)

MinuteMaid Park, Toyota Center were built basically because we were forced to build or loose teams, not for downtown.

I will give you Discovery Park, that is probably the only thing that has been done for downtown, I am not sure how the mayor has played into the park, so I have nothing to say against that.

You have an unusual spin on history there, not to mention contradictory (in one sentence you state that MinuteMaid and Toyota were built for the SuperBowl and the Olympics and two sentences later you tell us that they were built so we wouln'd lose the teams... nothing whatever to do with the SuperBowl or the Olympics).

But in any event, MinuteMaid Park, Toyota Center and Hilton Americas could have been built anywhere in Houston, see, for example where The Summit was built, see where the Astrodome and Reliant Stadium were built (and where MinuteMaid Park was almost built). But they were in fact built downtown, to help downtown.

Calling MetroRail a joke, has itself become a very tired joke. But that's another topic. The fact is, MetroRail was built, in part, to help downtown, and it was pushed very hard by the Mayor.

Not sure how the mayor has played into the park??? I can now see why you have such an unusual spin on history... you don't pay much attention. Suffice to say, Discovery Green would not be happening without the leadership of Mayor White, and if you would have paid any attention, you would know that.

[The Great Hizzy!]

MinuteMaid Park, Toyota Center, expansion of GRB, Hilton Americas, MetroRail

Were all done for two reasons: Super Bowl and Olympics, not for downtown.

Our MetroRail is a joke, now its just in its infacy, so I will give it time. (Dallas has a very good MetroRail, now they just need more businesses in downtown)

MinuteMaid Park, Toyota Center were built basically because we were forced to build or loose teams, not for downtown.

I will give you Discovery Park, that is probably the only thing that has been done for downtown, I am not sure how the mayor has played into the park, so I have nothing to say against that.

LOL!

[Daniepwils]

See what happens when you type upset, lol. I apologize. (not upset about this, something at work)

I should not have lumped it all together....so

Basically what I want to point out is the Light rail was so poorly planned and put up so fast, for Mayor Brown to take credit for the super bowl, and trying to win a bid, or the start of a bid at the Olympics). It was needed to link Reliant to Minute Maid Park and the convention center for the superbowl, and we needed some type of transportation system for visitors other than buses and taxi's

As for the Minute Maid and Toyota Center, I kind of put them in with the whole Reliant thing. Which we built so we could have a football team. This was one of the biggest factors in us getting the Texans if I recall.

(In my eyes, there is nothing wrong with the Astrodome, I mean look at Wrigley Field, that is old and is still used, AND STILL NICE, why can't the Astrodome be something like that?)

Edited October 17, 2006 by Daniepwils

[WesternGulf]

Houston is the 4th largest city, we should be up there with New York, Boston and San Fran.

Usually the largest metro areas have the lively downtowns. NYC, Boston, San Fran, DC, LA the exception, Chicago and Philly. Houston is really like the 10th or 11th largest city in the nation.

Edited October 17, 2006 by WesternGulf

[KinkaidAlum]

Are you serious?

The Astrodome can't be Wrigley Field because it was built in the 1960s, has a big roof on it, and is surrounded by a surface parking lot, a convention center, an arena, and not much else!

Part of the Wrigley Field experience is the environment on game day. Local restaurants and pubs are open, people mill about the surrounding streets, folks watch the games from their rooftops. It's a great thing to check out if you like baseball.

We built Minute Maid (Ballpark at Union Station) to try an spur development downtown. It was hoped that the Ben Milam and the Penn would be renovated. It was hoped that lofts and apartments would fill out the empty lots. Unfortunately, since this is Houston, we saw a loft apartment built on the other side of US 59, the Penn get demolished for an asphalt parking lot, and a couple of businesses get turned away when they couldn't secure a liquor license because they were too close to a school.

Now, we did get the B.U.S, the Lofts at the Ballpark, and Tillman's Inn at the Ballpark a few blocks away with a Vic and Anthony's. We also got a sign telling us that some exciting development was on its way. Unless they were talking about that sign, I've yet to see it!

[Pumapayam]

Houston is really like the 10th or 11th largest city in the nation.

Seriously, since when. . .

You must be reading that parody site of Wikipedia for your information.

[Montrose1100]

Seriously, since when. . .

You must be reading that parody site of Wikipedia for your information.

He is talking about Metro population.

Anyways, if you want to delicate flower about how un urban and such Houston is, there is a magical sight where such questions are asked. Usually followed with a list of all other cities. (skyscrapercity.com)

[pwright1]

A few questions regarding Seattle (just curious)

1) how many shopping malls are in a 50mile radus of Seattle's downtown area?

2) How many residients live in the downtown Seattle area?

3) What are these store hours (if you know) and are they open on the weekends?

I am just curious really. Most other cities seem to have a lively downtown area, except Houston and LA. Houston and LA, both being two of the largest cities in the country... should have a downtown night life.

They are "sprawled" cities (not to mention lack of a "good" commuting system, other than freeways), this is the only thing I can think of that would cause no one to come downtown on a regular basis and no store's risking to setup shop downtown. People can just goto these same store's in the malls where they live.

1. Lots just like any major metropolitan area.

2. I'm not sure but I think it's over 15,000

3. Nordstrom - Mon-Sat 9:30am-9:00pm Sunday till 7:00. Macy's till 8pm. Pacific Place & Westlake till 9pm.

Most stores along the sidewalks till 8 or 9pm. Barnes & Noble till 11pm everynight. Most of the highend stores like Louis Vitton, Barney's, St. John, Jerri Rice, Tiffany's & Cartier are open till 7pm.

[gto250us]

What are your ideas regarding the lack of retail in the downtown area. With the growth of residential in the downtown, this may be a problem. I would like to hear what the downtown residents think of this topic.

Most retail in the downtown district is in the tunnels and is only open till about 3-5 pm. Thus it is geared towards commuters in the office buildings. It seems to me that for those who now live in the many downtown lofts, you still need a car to get anything.

[TheNiche]

What are your ideas regarding the lack of retail in the downtown area. With the growth of residential in the downtown, this may be a problem. I would like to hear what the downtown residents think of this topic.

Most retail in the downtown district is in the tunnels and is only open till about 3-5 pm. Thus it is geared towards commuters in the office buildings. It seems to me that for those who now live in the many downtown lofts, you still need a car to get anything.

You would be correct. But the cart doesn't come before the horse. Before you start seeing resident-oriented retail, there have to be residents. I recall that Finger tried at one point to get subsidy from the city, but didn't have any luck with raising funds to build housing for the wealthy. Just wasn't politically saleable. So with that in mind, I'm doubting that the City is really going to be willing to directly subsidize the downtown population growth. They'll only skirt around it by providing nice amenities like parks and street improvement projects...but those will only serve to drive up land values, which potentially makes actually building the towers more difficult.

[gto250us]

You would be correct. But the cart doesn't come before the horse. Before you start seeing resident-oriented retail, there have to be residents. I recall that Finger tried at one point to get subsidy from the city, but didn't have any luck with raising funds to build housing for the wealthy. Just wasn't politically saleable. So with that in mind, I'm doubting that the City is really going to be willing to directly subsidize the downtown population growth. They'll only skirt around it by providing nice amenities like parks and street improvement projects...but those will only serve to drive up land values, which potentially makes actually building the towers more difficult.

Yeah it is a chicken and egg type of problem.

There have been a number of loft conversions planned and executed within the downtown. How many of those have fallen through because of a lack of retail? How many potential downtown residents put it off because of a lack of retail?

What do the developers think?

[TheNiche]

What do the developers think?

There's actually quite a bit of retail vacancy and tenant turnover street-level in downtown, so very few people are willing to put much money into the street-level stuff. They're just going to wait and see how Pavilions impacts things.

Loft developers' big hurdle is price. Downtown is just so expensive and construction costs are so high that it only appeals to those that are upper-middle or solidly upper class...and at those price ranges (and adding in maintenance fees to the price), prospective downtown residents can locate just about anywhere they like. That makes downtown a hard sell to those that can afford it.

[hokieone]

Don't know if this article got posted already but looks like some retail is trying to get in - don't know how much longer its going to be until the Sazowitz building gets built out, but at least there are retailers in place waiting to lease it out.

Downtown Retail

[The Great Hizzy!]

Sounds like good news for downtown. The Sakowitz building having two tenants now (assuming that he lease signing for AA concepts goes through) will make it far more attractive to other retailers. If only we can get HP off the ground and moving soon.

[scarface]

http://houston.bizjournals.com/houston/sto...2789200^1370677

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Would be nice to have some shops there for locals as well as out-of-towners. Hopefully this takes off-Full Steam Ahead.

[musicman]

don't believe it is momentum per se however it is a start. let's see how their store hrs shape up.

[largeTEXAS]

This had been discussed to some degree before in the Humble Tower thread, but I just wanted to let you guys know it's finally going to happen. In the next 3 - 4 months, the doors will open at the corner of Polk and Main. It'll be a REALLY cool little store selling exclusive and limited edition kicks as well as t-shirts and memorabilia. This will be the first non-mall street level fashion retail to open downtown in, like, 800 years!

[WesternGulf]

Jos A Bank? Yeah I know that doesn't count.

[MexAmerican_Moose]

yay!!! a new sneaker store...awesome, just what i wanted

[WesternGulf]

I forgot the name of the one they have on Times Blvd in the Village, but it sonds like another one of those. The one in the Village is out of Brooklyn I believe.

edit: ok found it, here it is. pretty cool store.

http://premiumgoods.net/

Edited November 19, 2006 by WesternGulf

[Sebastian De La Ghetto!]

Don't forget payless on main and mckinney....

Seriously though, i hope the store does open, i need another place to hang out when it's slow at work. Macy's is getting old.....

[infinite_jim]

I forgot the name of the one they have on Times Blvd in the Village, but it sonds like another one of those. The one in the Village is out of Brooklyn I believe.

edit: ok found it, here it is. pretty cool store.

http://premiumgoods.net/

also this place is based outta dallas but also have a rice village location:

Passport Exhibition Gallery

2419 SHEPHERD DR. HOUSTON, TX. 77019 ----> 713-529-0500

support your scene.

[LTAWACS]

I will go there.