Downtown Condominium Market

[Trae]

Downtown>>Uptown.

[wernicke]

I met up with a group of people who were in town for a convention a few weeks ago (staying at the Hyatt), and as the only Houstonian was kind of embarrassed with how little there was to do downtown on a Thursday evening within walking distance (most of the people were from Philly). Granted DG wasn't open yet. Houston Pavillions should really help DT's image and activity level, at least I hope so.

They wanted steak, so I suggested Strip House... walked them down Main St. a little ways, which they thought was cool. But the city seemed very dead.

[Daniepwils]

I bet more and more people might start to move closer in (downtown even) if gas gets to be 4.00 a gallon (in Houston) by the end of the year, which is what they are forecasting.

[Jax]

I wonder how many people live within a 5 mile radius of downtown...

These are the people who will go downtown to shop or use a park or go out to dinner most often, I think.

[lockmat]

I wonder how many people live within a 5 mile radius of downtown...

These are the people who will go downtown to shop or use a park or go out to dinner most often, I think.

Yeah, that might be true. So maybe tons of housing around downtown isn't such a bad thing?

[musicman]

that's probably 75-80% of the current inner loop area so not many do go downtown to shop, use a park or eat.

Edited May 8, 2008 by musicman

[lockmat]

that's probably 75-80% of the current inner loop area so not many do go downtown to shop, use a park or eat.

But might more of them start to b/c of HP and DG? I'd venture to say it will bring in at least some.

[musicman]

I'd venture to say it will bring in at least some.

yep.

[Jax]

not many do go downtown to shop, use a park or eat.

Yes, I said they will go downtown to use a park or eat [once there are more options]. I know many haven't gone downtown for those reasons in the past, but I would venture to guess that a majority of those using Disco Green on the weekends are coming from a 5 miles radius of downtown. And that's a good sign that they will also come downtown if there are actually things to do. That's why HP could be such a success. My point was that if there were shops downtown, those people living within a 5 mile radius would probably come downtown to shop.

I hate going to the Galleria. It's about twice the distance of Downtown, twice as crowded, the people are pretentious, and I rarely find a good deal, and I always have to drive. I'm often Downtown anyways, half the time without a car (Metro Rail). In the future if I am able to do some shopping downtown, that would be awesome. I hope HP and future similar developments will reduce my need to go Uptown. If only HP would have an Apple store...

Edited May 8, 2008 by Jax

[Ethanra]

My point was that if there were shops downtown, those people living within a 5 mile radius would probably come downtown to shop.

That may be true but I think the number 1 problem with shops opening DT is competition. Houston is like a bunch of cities within the same one. Think about it, the village is full of shopping, eateries, and entertainment. Every where around DT is like that from lower Westheimer , River Oaks, along West Alabama, Hedwig Village etc... Even if there was more shopping DT, why would these people need to go DT to shop when their own hood has everything? I have also always thought that the Galleria area has killed DT shopping and will keep it minimal. Its a shame all of UT could have been built throughout midtown. Also the shops in the tunnels have killed street level shopping. I understand the reason for the tunnels (bad weather days and the three months of 95 degree and humidity weather) but maybe if those shops were along main street and there were entrances from in the buildings and the street like The Corner Bakery more retail would have opened next to the barber shops, nail places, food places etc.. that are all in the tunnels.

[tanith27]

I wonder how many people live within a 5 mile radius of downtown...

These are the people who will go downtown to shop or use a park or go out to dinner most often, I think.

Its not exactly what you want, but the 1st page of the promo flyer for the Sawyer Heights Target center has some 2008 demographics on it that certainly include downtown numbers...

http://www.propertycommerce.com/flyers/flyer44.pdf

EDIT: Also check out the last few pages...

Edited May 8, 2008 by tanith27

[musicman]

That may be true but I think the number 1 problem with shops opening DT is competition. Houston is like a bunch of cities within the same one. Think about it, the village is full of shopping, eateries, and entertainment. Every where around DT is like that from lower Westheimer , River Oaks, along West Alabama, Hedwig Village etc... Even if there was more shopping DT, why would these people need to go DT to shop when their own hood has everything? I have also always thought that the Galleria area has killed DT shopping and will keep it minimal.

yep with the advent on the mall, downtown shopping has declined. having some unique stores/restaurants will sure help but a sizeable portion of the visitors to discovery green won't be able to afford some of these unique stores/restaurants. it's the double edged sword syndrome.

Edited May 8, 2008 by musicman

[MidtownCoog]

Well there is still a Payless Shoe Store downtown across from the old Palis Royal (CVS).

[musicman]

Well there is still a Payless Shoe Store downtown across from the old Palis Royal (CVS).

see jax you do have shopping options downtown. i'll bet the people won't be pretentious and you CAN find a good deal. wow. thanks for the tip coog.

[Jax]

yep with the advent on the mall, downtown shopping has declined

With the advent of the mall, downtown shopping has declined in some places (such as Houston), not all places. The fact that malls exist does not prove that downtown shopping can't make a comeback.

see jax you do have shopping options downtown [Payless Shoes]. i'll bet the people won't be pretentious and you CAN find a good deal. wow. thanks for the tip coog.

Good one Music Man, you got me there.

Houston is like a bunch of cities within the same one. Think about it, the village is full of shopping, eateries, and entertainment. Every where around DT is like that from lower Westheimer , River Oaks, along West Alabama, Hedwig Village etc... Even if there was more shopping DT, why would these people need to go DT to shop when their own hood has everything

The only shopping area I can think of that I can think will compete directly with Downtown in terms of proximity is Rice Village. But Rice Village is far enough away I think, and has poor access to transit compared to downtown. Also you'd get people shopping after work, during their lunch breaks, before going home, like they do in most other big cities. And you'd give the students from Rice, TMC, and UH more options than just Rice Village.

There's obviously some demand because they are building new retail as we speak. We just have to wait and see how well it works.

Edited May 8, 2008 by Jax

[livincinco]

yep with the advent on the mall, downtown shopping has declined. having some unique stores/restaurants will sure help but a sizeable portion of the visitors to discovery green won't be able to afford some of these unique stores/restaurants. it's the double edged sword syndrome.

I lived in San Francisco for a number of years, and downtown shopping is alive and well there. I think that the problem for DT here is that the destination shopping area in Houston is the Galleria, not DT. If you had the same stores DT, you would draw the people.

In my opinion, Houston is big enough to support major shopping in both DT and the Galleria if the stores are in place and the Pavilions project is a good start.

[Trae]

I wonder how many people live within a 5 mile radius of downtown...

These are the people who will go downtown to shop or use a park or go out to dinner most often, I think.

How is Macy's doing? It is the only department store in the South that is in a CBD.

[musicman]

I think that the problem for DT here is that the destination shopping area in Houston is the Galleria, not DT. If you had the same stores DT, you would draw the people.

i'm with ethanra one this one. there are many destination shopping areas in houston. competition is all over town. if the same stores were downtown, more people would still go to the galleria because more shopping money is in that area and access is easier....but we have to think realistically, all the stores at the galleria won't be opening downtown. downtown has to form its own niche to draw customers. once the customer base has increased then more businesses will consider a downtown location.

How is Macy's doing? It is the only department store in the South that is in a CBD.

its hrs are limited because customer base leaves after work.

[musicman]

There's obviously some demand because they are building new retail as we speak. We just have to wait and see how well it works.

building retail and filling retail are two different things. we all know how much empty retail there is now. the pavilion developer is addressing the problem in the right way, by doing it as an entire package. not just a store at a time.

[MidtownCoog]

Sometimes I wish we would just accept downtown for what it is: A place for business, business related activities and special events.

We are so focued on making downtown Houston look like other downtowns we can't see the forest for the trees.

Think how much there is to do a stone's throw from downtown.

[Trae]

Why not let Downtown have some of the action then? Already started with Minute Maid Park, then Toyota Center, etc., etc. Downtown should have more to do. Let there be a financial district Downtown for business people to do their thing.

Edited May 9, 2008 by Trae

[sowanome]

Why not let Downtown have some of the action then? Already started with Minute Maid Park, then Toyota Center, etc., etc. Downtown should have more to do. Let there be a financial district Downtown for business people to do their thing.

A financial district is nice if it's attractive, but the only issue is that in NYC, Chicago, San fran..the financial districts are ghost towns after closing (around 5:30 EST)....Maybe you'll find MusicMan there after 6 trying to reclaim his..

[Trae]

Yeah, I don't see a problem with a dead financial district after 6 PM. There will be that other side of Downtown with a lot of people walking around, shopping, eating out, etc.

[Jeebus]

Sometimes I wish we would just accept downtown for what it is: A place for business, business related activities and special events.

We are so focued on making downtown Houston look like other downtowns we can't see the forest for the trees.

Think how much there is to do a stone's throw from downtown.

Gospel.

[Jax]

Sometimes I wish we would just accept downtown for what it is: A place for business, business related activities and special events.

It's more fun to talk about future possibilities than to just be complacent with the way things are. Otherwise this forum would be awfully boring.

[MidtownCoog]

The future is now my friend.

It is unfolding right before your eyes. Don't let it pass you by.

If you could have seen downtown back in my clubbing days. Oy.

Getting to Power Tools was an exercise in urban warfare.

[RedScare]

Getting to Power Tools was an exercise in urban warfare.

Yeah. And we didn't use no stinkin' valet, either!!!!

[Ethanra]

Sometimes I wish we would just accept downtown for what it is: A place for business, business related activities and special events.

We are so focused on making downtown Houston look like other downtowns we can't see the forest for the trees.

Think how much there is to do a stone's throw from downtown.

Cheers ......

[memebag]

Downtown Houston used to be a lot of fun at night. It was a perfect place to skate. We've given that up for what, more shopping? Feh. Shopping is boring. Skating down parking garages and playing hockey in the street are orders of magnitude more exciting.

And get off my lawn.

[musicman]

It's more fun to talk about future possibilities than to just be complacent with the way things are. Otherwise this forum would be awfully boring.

boring is hearing people talk about how they can't buy one of these downtown