Downtown Condominium Market

[lockmat]

Honestly, I've grown up in the Spring/Woodlands area and haven't really traveled around downtown except by car when I go to Astros or Rockets games, plus I've been living in Albuquerque for the past year.

But I finally had a chance last night to walk around on mainstreet and it is awesome! It's exactly what we need with the everyday stuff on the first floor and residential above it. Those places have done a great job looking creative and making their respective businesses attractive. My favorite part was walking on the sidewalks under the Rice Hotel place; it's beautiful. I wish that more of the other the buildings would provide protection from the weather like that to go along with those nice lookin poles (don't know if there's some techincal term for 'em). Hopefully as additions continue to that area, they'll put that into consideration, which I think they will.

It's funny how you don't really realize what you have until it's gone and you come back to it. Walking around downtown and looking up at such huge towers was just jaw dropping. I guess I've never really walked around too many downtowns with skyscrapers. Albuquerque's tallest building is probably 20 floors max, so walking among Houston's bohemoths (sp?) was really sweet.

I rode the LRT from Preston to TMC too around 6 or 7 pm and it was pretty much full the entire time. Not bad. It seemed very convenient as well. We didn't have to wait for one for more than ten mins, which isn't bad at all. I've only ridden LRT one other time in Athens and our's is a much smoother ride than theirs was.

I can't wait until I move back. I'm hoping to move DT or some urban area when I do.

DT is on the right track. All I see is potential, and I can't see people not taking advantage of it. We just have to be patient.

[editor]

There are some smaller loft projects downtown. Dakota Lofts leaps to mind. Also the building across the street from it and a few others in the warehouse district.

[houstonfella]

Honestly, I've grown up in the Spring/Woodlands area and haven't really traveled around downtown except by car when I go to Astros or Rockets games, plus I've been living in Albuquerque for the past year.

But I finally had a chance last night to walk around on mainstreet and it is awesome! It's exactly what we need with the everyday stuff on the first floor and residential above it. Those places have done a great job looking creative and making their respective businesses attractive. My favorite part was walking on the sidewalks under the Rice Hotel place; it's beautiful. I wish that more of the other the buildings would provide protection from the weather like that to go along with those nice lookin poles (don't know if there's some techincal term for 'em). Hopefully as additions continue to that area, they'll put that into consideration, which I think they will.

It's funny how you don't really realize what you have until it's gone and you come back to it. Walking around downtown and looking up at such huge towers was just jaw dropping. I guess I've never really walked around too many downtowns with skyscrapers. Albuquerque's tallest building is probably 20 floors max, so walking among Houston's bohemoths (sp?) was really sweet.

I rode the LRT from Preston to TMC too around 6 or 7 pm and it was pretty much full the entire time. Not bad. It seemed very convenient as well. We didn't have to wait for one for more than ten mins, which isn't bad at all. I've only ridden LRT one other time in Athens and our's is a much smoother ride than theirs was.

I can't wait until I move back. I'm hoping to move DT or some urban area when I do.

DT is on the right track. All I see is potential, and I can't see people not taking advantage of it. We just have to be patient.

lockmat, I think the future is really bright for DT Houston. I really believe you would be the type of person (from your post) that would enjoy downtown's amenities and quality of life. Hurry back. We need more downtowners.

[icanluv2]

A bit unrelated, but quick question for you older people. Was the Houston House used in the movie 'Urban Cowboy' with John Travolta? Was it the place where John picked up the gal at the bar and went back home to? I saw it the other day on some cable channel and it looked like it.

[VicMan]

But it still surprises me that Houston is bigger than Dallas. I thought that Big D would have surpassed The Bayou City long ago.

Dallas may grow from the south side. The city has been hemmed in many places by suburban cities.

[lwood]

A bit unrelated, but quick question for you older people. Was the Houston House used in the movie 'Urban Cowboy' with John Travolta? Was it the place where John picked up the gal at the bar and went back home to? I saw it the other day on some cable channel and it looked like it.

2016 Main.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Anyone else have experiences with 2016 Main, recent or in the past. Recent experiences would be greatly appreciated. My boy has been asking for an apartment closer in town to cut his commute to school. Its right on the LRT and i think the LRT has a stop at his school. Would save me some money in gas each month too I have been looking on HAR at 2016 Main. Im possibly interested in purchasing one of the units there. Better to buy than rent. Any comments?

[musicman]

most of the people i know there like it. the most negative think i've heard is the surrounding area. the mcdonalds/bus station etc doesn't make you feel comfortable. some of the units i've been in are quite small, but that would probably be ok for a student.

if your son is going to meteorology school, he can get some pointers from dr neil frank who lives in the building.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

most of the people i know there like it. the most negative think i've heard is the surrounding area. the mcdonalds/bus station etc doesn't make you feel comfortable. some of the units i've been in are quite small, but that would probably be ok for a student.

if your son is going to meteorology school, he can get some pointers from dr neil frank who lives in the building.

Ah a local celeb. lives in the building?

They havent cleaned the area up since the LRT?

Im looking at something in the 500-650 sq ft range. He doesnt need anything larger than that i think. Also, what about guest parking? Is there garage parking for guest or is it surface parking, and if it is surface, is there a charge? I should get out and go take a look around.

Also, does it have a good mix of ages that you know of? Thanks for the feedback.

[musicman]

Ah a local celeb. lives in the building?

They havent cleaned the area up since the LRT?

Im looking at something in the 500-650 sq ft range. He doesnt need anything larger than that i think. Also, what about guest parking? Is there garage parking for guest or is it surface parking, and if it is surface, is there a charge? I should get out and go take a look around.

Also, does it have a good mix of ages that you know of? Thanks for the feedback.

for guests i remember parking across the street for free in a lot (and on street in front), but since that is also across the street from the bus station, there are quite a few loiterers.

The area is basically the same except that METRO's headquarters across 45 uses the area under the pierce elevated for parking. it is now fenced so the homeless just moved farther down pierce a few blocks. sometimes i see 50 or so over by st joes. of course with the homeless ordinance they aren't suppoed to be there.

i think the residents are diverse. a friend who evacuated from nola lives there. he likes it but still doesn't venture very far. i think there was a little store in the building as well as a small washateria but his unit has washer/dryer. last time i was there i remember some dog poop out front. guess some don't pick it up!

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

for guests i remember parking across the street for free in a lot (and on street in front), but since that is also across the street from the bus station, there are quite a few loiterers.

The area is basically the same except that METRO's headquarters across 45 uses the area under the pierce elevated for parking. it is now fenced so the homeless just moved farther down pierce a few blocks. sometimes i see 50 or so over by st joes. of course with the homeless ordinance they aren't suppoed to be there.

i think the residents are diverse. a friend who evacuated from nola lives there. he likes it but still doesn't venture very far. i think there was a little store in the building as well as a small washateria but his unit has washer/dryer. last time i was there i remember some dog poop out front. guess some don't pick it up!

Thanks for the feedback. Im going to head by there tomorrow and have a look around.

[jdbaker]

Thanks for the feedback. Im going to head by there tomorrow and have a look around.

2016 Main's maintenance fees are over $.80 psf. They do, however, include electricity. In nearly all circumstances you're better off renting downtown given the current rental marktet. I've heard good things about Humble Towers, which is all rental. Houston House is very livable and has a sort of dysfunctional charm. Also, check Har.com for residential leases. I believe there are a few units for lease in the Bayou Lofts (owned) for around $1100.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

2016 Main's maintenance fees are over $.80 psf. They do, however, include electricity. In nearly all circumstances you're better off renting downtown given the current rental marktet. I've heard good things about Humble Towers, which is all rental. Houston House is very livable and has a sort of dysfunctional charm. Also, check Har.com for residential leases. I believe there are a few units for lease in the Bayou Lofts (owned) for around $1100.

Thats for the input. I will look into the ones you suggested, but i must say, i would rather spend 1100 on a mortgage payment and not rent. I did see the 2016 includes electricity in the main. fee, that was one of the attractions for me. I will take a look around the area tomorrow to get a better feel.

[HtownWxBoy]

Don't know much about Houston House, but they did have a sign that said "cheapest rent in downtown' for a while. Someone once told me it was "gay". Who knows, who cares.

Yes yes... Houston House is "gay"... we are busted. It's all part of our evil "agenda". We have infiltrated the malls and the shools, now we are moving onto apartment buildings... and by apartment buildings I mean the actual physical structures... we are turning the actual buildings gay! Next on our list to gayify... THE MOON!! >

Anyways , I have been in 2016 Main a few times. I thought it was a nice place... I wouldn't mind living there. It's in a great location... right next to downtown on the rail... though the exact area it is in is a little shady. I was in Houston House once... seemed ok. 2016 Main was definitely the nicer of the two. I knew a "gay" who lived in 2016 Main... so that place might also be "gay"... maybe it caught it from Houston House!

[nativehou]

Also, what other highrise slums exist downtown? Is the Montigue Hotel a slum? It looks like it from the street.

In this thread's initial post, you asked about the Montagu Hotel. I had read articles in recent months about how the hotel is making somewhat of a comeback and is becoming popular with international business travelers looking for an affordable and convenient hotel.

Here is the hotel's website:

http://www.montaguhotel.net/

[lockmat]

I thought about hi-jacking the, "why are condo fees so high?" thread, but figured some people may be interested enough to discuss this at length.

The other thread discussed the cost comparison between Houston and DC. The more Houston builds condo's and they become more common, will prices drop? Or as downtown development grows, will the demand for the location even things out or actually cause a rise in prices?

[Pumapayam]

I thought about hi-jacking the, "why are condo fees so high?" thread, but figured some people may be interested enough to discuss this at length.

The other thread discussed the cost comparison between Houston and DC. The more Houston builds condo's and they become more common, will prices drop? Or as downtown development grows, will the demand for the location even things out or actually cause a rise in prices?

Up front contruction cost increasing and on going maintenance pricing increasing may keep prices high.

[The Great Hizzy!]

It depends on saturation and the desire to live DT first. I think even with the onset of several high rise condos in DT, the prices would be more dependent on the level of demand. If demand is still high in lieu of all that construction, then I don't think you'll see a negative affect on property values. OTOH, even with a small number of highrises, if the demand dips, then so will the property values.

The good thing is that for all of our laments concerning the swaths of parking lots and unused lands in and near DT, it does allow for numerous developments in the even that demand does become exceptionally high for highrise urban living.

[lockmat]

It depends on saturation and the desire to live DT first. I think even with the onset of several high rise condos in DT, the prices would be more dependent on the level of demand. If demand is still high in lieu of all that construction, then I don't think you'll see a negative affect on property values. OTOH, even with a small number of highrises, if the demand dips, then so will the property values.

The good thing is that for all of our laments concerning the swaths of parking lots and unused lands in and near DT, it does allow for numerous developments in the even that demand does become exceptionally high for highrise urban living.

It just seems to me that if every day needs, i.e. grocery store, retail, etc, come DT then so will the people. As we've witnessed on HAIF, there are many people in Houston who are from the North East and are used to this type of living and even prefer it.

So hypothetically, if these things come and condos continue to be built...what's the future of the prices of them? I know it depends on other things as well, such as demand, which I think will definitely be there.

[HtownWxBoy]

I thought about hi-jacking the, "why are condo fees so high?" thread, but figured some people may be interested enough to discuss this at length.

The other thread discussed the cost comparison between Houston and DC. The more Houston builds condo's and they become more common, will prices drop? Or as downtown development grows, will the demand for the location even things out or actually cause a rise in prices?

A lot of it will have to do with simple "supply and demand". If the demand is there... say all of a sudden lots of people want to move downtown... but the supply of new apartments/condos isn't there... prices of the homes already there will go up. If they build tons of new housing downtown and find out nobody wants to live there... prices will go down. Areas such as Midtown, the Heights, Montrose, Uptown and the Museum District / Medical Center area continue to see home prices for the most part rise b/c people want to move into these areas... there is a demand. Fortunately, there is a lot of land and a lot of homes / projects being built (the supply), so although home prices are rising, they aren't out of control. Other factors of course go into it, but supply and demand plays a big part is where home prices go.

[lockmat]

A lot of it will have to do with simple "supply and demand". If the demand is there... say all of a sudden lots of people want to move downtown... but the supply of new apartments/condos isn't there... prices of the homes already there will go up. If they build tons of new housing downtown and find out nobody wants to live there... prices will go down. Areas such as Midtown, the Heights, Montrose, Uptown and the Museum District / Medical Center area continue to see home prices for the most part rise b/c people want to move into these areas... there is a demand. Fortunately, there is a lot of land and a lot of homes / projects being built (the supply), so although home prices are rising, they aren't out of control. Other factors of course go into it, but supply and demand plays a big part is where home prices go.

In order to save money, would it be cheaper to buy now or five to ten years down the road? Is that even possible to answer right now?

[TheNiche]

The more Houston builds condo's and they become more common, will prices drop? Or as downtown development grows, will the demand for the location even things out or actually cause a rise in prices?

Yes and no. The prices of older condos will drop because the improvements depreciate and require more maintenance, which means that the units are generally less desireable and more expensive. In some locations, the value of the land owned in common may increase so as to preserve the market value of the condo, and I'm banking on the expectation that that is true of my condo near the TMC. But condos in lesser locations are going to feel the hurt.

In order to save money, would it be cheaper to buy now or five to ten years down the road? Is that even possible to answer right now?

Depends on your circumstances. If you're just looking for an investment property (as opposed to a place to live), I'd suggest buying land before you buy a condo. Land has less liability, fewer (or no) expenses, and is priced by its highest and best use for new development, which means that if the highest use is multifamily, improvements in demand for new condos and apartments will directly affect the value of your land.

On the other hand, if you're looking for a place to live, condos might just fit the bill. That's really dependent upon you.

[HtownWxBoy]

In order to save money, would it be cheaper to buy now or five to ten years down the road? Is that even possible to answer right now?

Well, unless the bottom drops out after you buy a home and home prices plummet, you will almost always in the end save money by buying. You may not save it right away, but you will over time. Everytime you write a rent check, that money disappears never to be seen again. When you write a mortgage check, although most of it in the beginning goes towards interest, you get to write that off on your taxes. Any money you put towards your principal is still yours... you don't lose it... it is just in your home now. Although you may pay a bit more each month for a certain place with your mortgage / property taxes / HOA fees... you get money back from tax write offs and property value increases. If you buy a home today and 5 years down the road its value goes up $50,000... that $50,000 is now yours. If you paid rent for those five years... all of that money is gone and you haven't made a dime. Even if you buy a home and the value of it stays the same, you still technically save money as opposed to renting b/c of all of your tax write offs. If you have good credit and you could afford to buy, you should buy. All you do is take what you pay in rent and find a home where your monthly bills (mortgage / insurance / taxes / HOA fees) equals around what your rent was. Hope that helped a little bit.

[lockmat]

Even if you buy a home and the value of it stays the same, you still technically save money as opposed to renting b/c of all of your tax write offs. If you have good credit and you could afford to buy, you should buy. All you do is take what you pay in rent and find a home where your monthly bills (mortgage / insurance / taxes / HOA fees) equals around what your rent was. Hope that helped a little bit.

I actually already knew that it's pretty much better to rent than buy. But the part I left in the quatations was helpful, thanks.

However, that wasn't really what I was asking. I was just wondering if it would be cheaper to buy a condo DT now or later. I know that may not be possible to answer, but I threw it out there anyway just in case someone had some insight I never thought about.

[lockmat]

Depends on your circumstances. If you're just looking for an investment property (as opposed to a place to live), I'd suggest buying land before you buy a condo. Land has less liability, fewer (or no) expenses, and is priced by its highest and best use for new development, which means that if the highest use is multifamily, improvements in demand for new condos and apartments will directly affect the value of your land.

On the other hand, if you're looking for a place to live, condos might just fit the bill. That's really dependent upon you.

I'm not looking for an investment. I don't think I have near enough money to buy land downtown.

I'm actually looking for a place to live. And I already know that I want it to be in a condo DT or a town home in a dense area close by.

I would assume that condo owners typically keep a nice house and take care of their things. Would y'all say this is mostly true? And I don't know how all this works, but I'm also assuming that once purchased, the condo is sole property of the owners and that when they sell, it's all theirs and they don't have to go through anything w/ whom they purchased it from originally; they just sell as if it were a single-family unit?

[musicman]

It just seems to me that if every day needs, i.e. grocery store, retail, etc, come DT then so will the people. As we've witnessed on HAIF, there are many people in Houston who are from the North East and are used to this type of living and even prefer it.

So hypothetically, if these things come and condos continue to be built...what's the future of the prices of them? I know it depends on other things as well, such as demand, which I think will definitely be there.

But these everyday needs places aren't "flocking" to downtown nor the near east side. Both residents and businesses are taking a gamble which in the long term could be lucrative. i think gulfgate is proof that there is money to be made on the east side. just takes a few more visionaries and people that are willing to support them.

I would assume that condo owners typically keep a nice house and take care of their things. Would y'all say this is mostly true? And I don't know how all this works, but I'm also assuming that once purchased, the condo is sole property of the owners and that when they sell, it's all theirs and they don't have to go through anything w/ whom they purchased it from originally; they just sell as if it were a single-family unit?

Talk to stolix and rps about condos. i'm sure they'll have a few words on the upkeep of some condos near their hood.

[lockmat]

But these everyday needs places aren't "flocking" to downtown nor the near east side. Both residents and businesses are taking a gamble which in the long term could be lucrative. i think gulfgate is proof that there is money to be made on the east side. just takes a few more visionaries and people that are willing to support them.

Yeah, it'll take time for them come. But the Fingers tower should certainly help things; that's a lot of units. And I'm not so sure it's such a big gamble for residents to move downtown. It's not like they're used to having a grocery store, etc. right around the corner anyway, right? Once those everyday things do come though, it'll provide that much more convenience.

Talk to stolix and rps about condos. i'm sure they'll have a few words on the upkeep of some condos near their hood.

K, thanks.

[TheNiche]

I'm actually looking for a place to live. And I already know that I want it to be in a condo DT or a town home in a dense area close by.

Budget?

[musicman]

Yeah, it'll take time for them come. But the Fingers tower should certainly help things; that's a lot of units. And I'm not so sure it's such a big gamble for residents to move downtown. It's not like they're used to having a grocery store, etc. right around the corner anyway, right? Once those everyday things do come though, it'll provide that much more convenience.

the grocery store won't be "around the corner" for everyone because the housing is scattered thruout downtown. if you don't expect retail, grocery stores etc then there is no gamble to move downtown because you have no expectations. i know people who've lived down there easily over 10 yrs and don't really care because that is how it's been for quite a while. i would venture to say there are less options now than there were 10 yrs ago because speculation has caused an increase in prices.

many of the newer residents ARE expecting certain amenities however. those are the ones that will be the ones most disappointed that they will have to drive to the grocery store,etc. Many are expecting chain type places to move in. IMO i think those are less likely to move there b/c of the lack of population. Downtown has some great mom/pop/individually owned type places that are doing well enough to make it since i've been going downtown in the 80's. The starbucks, burger kings, etc are there but are only open during biz hrs which does not meet criteria for residents.

the owners of treebeards have lived downtown for quite a while now. They've attempted to open their mkt square in the evenings but only do it for parts of the yr because the demand doesn't warrant it. (not sure if they did it last yr) Retail would be nice in the eves but the downtown retail that is there closes early so it doesn't draw additional people outside of downtown which might help existing businesses.

it's that chicken and egg question.

[lockmat]

Budget?

I'm not actually in the market of buying right now. I live in Albuquerque and look to move back to Houston within a year or two. Even then I won't be buying immediately. My salary certainly doesn't allow me to buy a condo DT right now. At the same time, I wouldn't expect the quantity of condos to go up within one to three years, thats why I ask loosely if it's a good time to buy "now" or later(5-10 years).

And really I'm asking these questions generally and to educate myself for the future. BTW, do y'all know the lowest price for a nice/decent condo in the DT area, or at least the range for a low end one?