I-45 Rebuild (North Houston Highway Improvement Project)

[editor]

27 minutes ago, Montrose1100 said:

WOW they are going to build a divider wall inbetween? To prevent the rubber necking of a wreck on the opposite side? Meaning there could be a fender bender traffic on the opposing side wouldn't have a clue?

Do it on every freeway TXDOT. 

Here's a semi-stupid idea: Make one side water-resistant.  Then install pumps to move the water from the outbound lanes into the inbound trench, so that people can still evacuate during flooding.

[mollusk]

5 hours ago, Montrose1100 said:

WOW they are going to build a divider wall inbetween? To prevent the rubber necking of a wreck on the opposite side? Meaning there could be a fender bender traffic on the opposing side wouldn't have a clue?

Do it on every freeway TXDOT. 

Also, it'll keep you from getting blinded by the jacked up brodozers' headlights.

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

9 hours ago, Montrose1100 said:

WOW they are going to build a divider wall inbetween? To prevent the rubber necking of a wreck on the opposite side? Meaning there could be a fender bender traffic on the opposing side wouldn't have a clue?

Do it on every freeway TXDOT. 

Some of the highways in other states now have 6' high median barriers. The new I-10 construction in Louisiana has these. Not only do you not see wrecks on the other side unless you drive a high vehicle, the glare from opposing traffic's headlights doesn't mess with you anymore. That is the best reason for high walls.

[kennyc05]

1 hour ago, Tumbleweed_Tx said:

Some of the highways in other states now have 6' high median barriers. The new I-10 construction in Louisiana has these. Not only do you not see wrecks on the other side unless you drive a high vehicle, the glare from opposing traffic's headlights doesn't mess with you anymore. That is the best reason for high walls.

I notice Atlanta has high walls as well!

[H-Town Man]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:07 AM, Amlaham said:

 

 

 

 

This is the most exciting thing I've seen on HAIF in years.

 

[Ross]

6 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

This is the most exciting thing I've seen on HAIF in years.

 

I am going to remain skeptical until it actually happens. I figure I might have 20 years left. I'll be shocked if those cap parks happen before then.

[mattyt36]

13 hours ago, Ross said:

I am going to remain skeptical until it actually happens. I figure I might have 20 years left. I'll be shocked if those cap parks happen before then.

@Ross buck up man!  You'll see them!  Never let go!

[august948]

20 hours ago, Ross said:

I am going to remain skeptical until it actually happens. I figure I might have 20 years left. I'll be shocked if those cap parks happen before then.

I'll be shocked if they can get the lighting on the bridges to work.

[kennyc05]

1 hour ago, august948 said:

I'll be shocked if they can get the lighting on the bridges to work.

Why?

[august948]

9 minutes ago, kennyc05 said:

Why?

Drive 59 between Kirby and 527 at night and you'll understand.

[kennyc05]

5 minutes ago, august948 said:

Drive 59 between Kirby and 527 at night and you'll understand.

I get that! I was wondering from a technical standpoint 😁😁😁

[august948]

2 minutes ago, kennyc05 said:

I get that! I was wondering from a technical standpoint 😁😁😁

You and me both.  😃

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

6 hours ago, august948 said:

You and me both.  😃

it's even worse than that.... *I* am wondering why those damned things don't work.

but I know why... it was built by the lowest bidder using cheap chinese garbage led strips and controllers instead of the good stuff which is manufactured out here in the middle of nowhere Ft Bend County....  Plus, the installer probably doesn't have a maintenance contract with the City...

[Houston19514]

12 hours ago, Tumbleweed_Tx said:

it's even worse than that.... *I* am wondering why those damned things don't work.

but I know why... it was built by the lowest bidder using cheap chinese garbage led strips and controllers instead of the good stuff which is manufactured out here in the middle of nowhere Ft Bend County....  Plus, the installer probably doesn't have a maintenance contract with the City...

Apparently the installer indeed does not have a maintenance contract with the city (or with anyone else).  The bridge lighting issue is a side effect of the problems with the Montrose Management District, which was disbanded several years ago.  Montrose Management District was responsible for the lighting, including its maintenance.  Montrose Management no longer exists, so there is no one to maintain the lighting.

[Andrew Ewert]

On 4/20/2022 at 4:33 PM, editor said:

I'm not excited about the Third Ward Signature Bridges.  They look very much like the ones over the existing trenched portion of the Southwest Freeway.  And I expect them to be maintained just as carefully.  Meaning, not at all.

That set of bridges used to be a spectacular asset to the city.  Now they're an embarrassment.

Couldn't possibly agree more. It's horrible.

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:28 AM, Montrose1100 said:

WOW they are going to build a divider wall in between?

 

Do it on every freeway TXDOT. 

Driving up 59 inside the beltway was a surprise for me - THEY EXTENDED THE HEIGHT OF THE MEDIAN BARRIER!! You can't see opposing traffic anymore if your car is low (like mine). So far, they have done between the Beltway and halfway between Bellaire and Hillcroft.

[kennyc05]

2 hours ago, Tumbleweed_Tx said:

Driving up 59 inside the beltway was a surprise for me - THEY EXTENDED THE HEIGHT OF THE MEDIAN BARRIER!! You can't see opposing traffic anymore if your car is low (like mine). So far, they have done between the Beltway and halfway between Bellaire and Hillcroft.

I don't understand why they won't raise the barriers between the feeder roads and freeway.

[texan]

On 4/15/2022 at 9:25 PM, texan said:

http://www.downtowntirz.com/downtownhouston/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Board-Book-FINAL-3.8.22.pdf

Plenty of red meat here for y'all to argue about. For what it's worth, I did genuinely find this informative and very fair in terms of how well TxDOT is working with Central Houston and how they are actually open to negotiation/changes. Very different from the story given in the media.

http://www.downtowntirz.com/downtownhouston/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Board-Book-4-12-22.pdf

Cost information has been added to the original document packet sent to the FHWA. Additionally, two more exhibits were added that discuss the future of Pierce Elevated and effects on parks on the west side of downtown. 

[Amlaham]

EADO cap park starts in 2031??

 

[Amlaham]

I just love how this project has been on the drawing board since 2002 and expected to be finished 30 years later. 

 

Dubai did this.....in 6 years 

They also built islands in 10 years....

 

Are we not as advance as we used to think?

Edited May 9, 2022 by Amlaham

[iah77]

5 minutes ago, Amlaham said:

I just love how this project has been on the drawing board since 2002 and expected to be finished 30 years later. 

 

Dubai did this.....in 6 years 

 

They also built islands in 10 years....

Are we not as advance as we used to think?

Sorry but what does planning a freeway/infrastructure far in advance have to do with building a skyscraper or a district like the Pudong?

If anything your comment shows that countries with no citizen representation whatsoever get to build whatever they want very quickly so maybe autocracy is the way to go! If you thought TDOT was not nice about condemnations, you should see what they do in China. 

[Big E]

8 hours ago, Amlaham said:

I just love how this project has been on the drawing board since 2002 and expected to be finished 30 years later. 

 

Dubai did this.....in 6 years 

They also built islands in 10 years....

 

Are we not as advance as we used to think?

Also, most of those islands are sinking back into the Persian Gulf, and aren't even developed. 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Big E

[JLWM8609]

5 hours ago, Amlaham said:

I just love how this project has been on the drawing board since 2002 and expected to be finished 30 years later. 

 

Dubai did this.....in 6 years 

They also built islands in 10 years....

 

Are we not as advance as we used to think?

We don't need poop trucks to handle the plumbing in our skyscrapers. 

 

[Montrose1100]

Are you suggesting we enslave workers from around the world to build up a fabricated city? Where we'll also import office/admin workers from India & the Philippines, force them to live way out of the city in segregated communities, and pay them way less?

Shanghai comparison is silly as well. Their population in 1990 was what, over 12 million? So already a super dense city. Then you have them enter the skyscraper world stage in the 90s before the APAC financial scare, then to the largest migration/urbanization in the history of the world?

Look at a picture of Houston from 1970-1990 and you'll see a similar stark contrast. As for red tape and government spending, can't speak for why it takes so long to get infrastructure in this country.

[cspwal]

There’s also a difference between building something where there’s nothing and replacing a super busy freeway in the middle of downtown while keeping it open to traffic and commerce 

[Amlaham]

💀 I didn't saying anything that insinuates enslaving workers, poop trucks, or building more/fast skyscrapers. Not every statement/ post is surface level. The point of my argument, which I thought was clear, is that it shouldn't take 30 years to plan/ reconstruct a highway. No workers have been enslaved in the last 20 years of planning this project. This isn't about workers, there are projects that get planned/built in a way quicker timeframe than this project.

• Dallas' Klyde cap park was planned in 2004, constructed from 2009-2012
• Florida's I-4 project was planned in 2008, constructed in 2015-2022 (one of the busiest highways :))
• California's I-405 project was planned 2014, constructed in 2018-2023 (the most congested highway in the LA area)

I can list numerous other US projects but someone will eventually find another excuse. I also made sure to only include American projects since some people get offended by UAE and China. 

[H-Town Man]

On 5/9/2022 at 9:18 AM, texan said:

http://www.downtowntirz.com/downtownhouston/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Board-Book-4-12-22.pdf

Cost information has been added to the original document packet sent to the FHWA. Additionally, two more exhibits were added that discuss the future of Pierce Elevated and effects on parks on the west side of downtown. 

Starts off pretty well but I can't believe they really want to keep the Pierce Elevated structure. Thinking of cities around the world, I can't think of any great neighborhood where multiple levels are anything but detrimental, whether they be transportation levels, park levels, etc. You invariably ruin the ground level when you build levels above it, and you may or may not get something nice above it (usually not). Something thin like the Highline (NY) or the Katy Trail (Dallas) is one thing, but a large structure that casts a shadow below it is a whole different animal. It has proven so difficult for Houston to learn how to just activate the street level environment that it boggles my mind that they think they're going to activate the street and also activate an old freeway structure above it and somehow integrate the two in a vibrant way. That is like trying to do quantum mechanics before you have mastered Newton's laws of motion.

Also, the plans for Buffalo Bayou on the West side seem similarly misguided. Building a signature bridge for the downtown connector should be a no-brainer. Expecting people to go to a market plaza underneath the downtown connector with all its traffic noise... I just can't believe it.

Edited May 11, 2022 by H-Town Man

[editor]

21 hours ago, Amlaham said:

I just love how this project has been on the drawing board since 2002 and expected to be finished 30 years later. 

 

Dubai did this.....in 6 years 

Considering that most international human rights organizations say that construction in Dubai is done with the equivalent of slave labor, I don't think it's the same thing.

Also, this is a state and municipal project.  The Dubai stuff was all funded with private money.  I'm sure Exxon could build this in a few years, too, with its money to burn.  But you're not going to get the same speed with scarce tax dollars.

So, really, that's a false equivalency all around.

[Luminare]

3 hours ago, Amlaham said:

💀 I didn't saying anything that insinuates enslaving workers, poop trucks, or building more/fast skyscrapers. Not every statement/ post is surface level. The point of my argument, which I thought was clear, is that it shouldn't take 30 years to plan/ reconstruct a highway. No workers have been enslaved in the last 20 years of planning this project. This isn't about workers, there are projects that get planned/built in a way quicker timeframe than this project.

• Dallas' Klyde cap park was planned in 2004, constructed from 2009-2012
• Florida's I-4 project was planned in 2008, constructed in 2015-2022 (one of the busiest highways :))
• California's I-405 project was planned 2014, constructed in 2018-2023 (the most congested highway in the LA area)

I can list numerous other US projects but someone will eventually find another excuse. I also made sure to only include American projects since some people get offended by UAE and China. 

While the replies might seem disingenuous since they don't really hit your exact point, I would listen to those responses because they highlight the tradeoffs for speed, and max efficiency. The main tradeoff is if you want that kind of speed and max efficiency (at least on the exterior, or aesthetically) then unfortunately you will need massive expansion in centralization of resources, with the tyranny and totalitarianism that goes with that. When you have total control and only one person making a decision then yes you can move quickly and build entire cities in a decade, but it comes a great costs in the medium to long term that aren't immediately apparent. I say this as someone who wants the ability to have total design control, but with the understanding of what those trade offs are and what I will need to balance that speed in design with help to mitigate tradeoffs. The question we have to always ask ourselves is do we want a society of max efficiency or max autonomy. We are kinda having that discussion right now, but it does come with trade offs, sometimes ones that aren't immediately obvious. If we want to remain a republic with democratically elected representatives then we will have one of the slowest forms of governments who will in turn also make decisions very slowly because they have to reach a consensus before making a decision which takes time....and that is by design.

**EDIT**
I should add that while my point above stands I do understand any and all frustration with the speed at which things can take on projects, and there are plenty of ways to fix this issue without sacrificing the mechanisms which make those decisions. There does need to be significant reform to how we bid public projects, to financing these projects, to eliminating conflict of interests, to addressing public concern while at the same time not letting that process drag, totally reform or dispense with environmental impact studies (useless), getting rid of useless "stakeholders" and making sure projects are beholden to the elected representatives, etc... etc...

Edited May 10, 2022 by Luminare

[Big E]

2 hours ago, Amlaham said:

💀 I didn't saying anything that insinuates enslaving workers, poop trucks, or building more/fast skyscrapers. Not every statement/ post is surface level. The point of my argument, which I thought was clear, is that it shouldn't take 30 years to plan/ reconstruct a highway. No workers have been enslaved in the last 20 years of planning this project. This isn't about workers, there are projects that get planned/built in a way quicker timeframe than this project.

• Dallas' Klyde cap park was planned in 2004, constructed from 2009-2012
• Florida's I-4 project was planned in 2008, constructed in 2015-2022 (one of the busiest highways :))
• California's I-405 project was planned 2014, constructed in 2018-2023 (the most congested highway in the LA area)

I can list numerous other US projects but someone will eventually find another excuse. I also made sure to only include American projects since some people get offended by UAE and China. 

This project far dwarfs, at the very least, the Hyde Park cap. The state is rebuilding around 15 miles of some of the busiest freeway in America's fourth largest city, in addition to building new lanes, burying existing and new ones, building new roads, rebuilding an entire interchange, building multiple caps, etc. and doing it all while disrupting existing traffic patterns as little as possible. And this is after years of studies, back-and-forth with local governments, public meetings, impact statements, and the like. And now the project is being held up by the federal government itself, without which it would have already started, and ninth hour local opposition. You say it shouldn't take 30 years. I say you know nothing of the bureaucratic nightmare that is building anything in America in this day and age. Funny you mention California; they are learning this exact lesson the hard way with their high speed train project. A better comparison would have been the Big Dig, which lasted from 1991-2007 for primary construction, but planning began all the way back in 1982.