University Debates: Sports, Fundings, And Developments

[Timoric]

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Edited July 10, 2019 by Timoric

[kdog08]

My only question with that is.. If a prestigious, nationally renown university like UT has trouble recruiting out of state students.. What makes you think a school like UH would have better luck?

 

It seems the issue is that Texas doesn't have enough "UT"-esque schools. We need more flagships. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by kdog08

[kdog08]

Why should they disperse the funds when it's only to the UT and A&M systems' detriment, and only to the UH/TTU systems' benefit? You're asking for something in exchange for nothing.

 

There is no reason that we couldn't have a mass higher education reorganization tomorrow. All it would take is negotiation. But, you have to understand, UT and A&M aren't going to give up their spots as the state's flagships. If you want them to give on something, you've got to give on something as well. I have not seen any pro-UH posters on here being willing to do so. The most that's being offered is an ultimatum of PUF access in exchange for us not throwing a hissy fit. Is that an even exchange?

 

Sacrificing independence while maintaining a bit of autonomy, on the other hand, would be. In all honesty, I don't know why any UH graduate would be opposed to it. It enhances the value of your degree overnight.

 

That's a false dichotomy. No one is suggesting UT and TAMU give up their spots as flagships, I suggested to add more flagships and building upon what we already have built. Personally, I think we need a flagship in each major region; UH, UT-D, UT, and TAMU. The border region is woefully under served by higher education so TAMU-Kingsville needs to become more like present day UT-D before becoming a flagship. 

 

To the bolded, the point is what's best for people of the state of Texas.

[ADCS]

That's a false dichotomy. No one is suggesting UT and TAMU give up their spots as flagships, I suggested to add more flagships and building upon what we already have built. Personally, I think we need a flagship in each major region; UH, UT-D, UT, and TAMU. The border region is woefully under served by higher education so TAMU-Kingsville needs to become more like present day UT-D before becoming a flagship. 

 

To the bolded, the point is what's best for people of the state of Texas.

 

Yet you're asking them to give up money, receiving nothing in return. That's something for nothing.

 

The only thing that I can think of that UH has to offer that would be an even exchange for PUF access is institutional independence. Yet, I haven't seen any proposals from UH boosters that even countenance giving something up to UT in exchange for that access. It's only "we demand this" and "you should do this because this is unfair", like UT or A&M should care about such things, not to mention the people in the state's other big cities who would receive no material benefit from such a change.

 

UH doesn't have the leverage to get PUF access, and yet its supporters are the ones making the demands. Can you not see how this appears extremely foolish to others?

[gmac]

That's a false dichotomy. No one is suggesting UT and TAMU give up their spots as flagships, I suggested to add more flagships and building upon what we already have built. Personally, I think we need a flagship in each major region; UH, UT-D, UT, and TAMU. The border region is woefully under served by higher education so TAMU-Kingsville needs to become more like present day UT-D before becoming a flagship. 

 

To the bolded, the point is what's best for people of the state of Texas.

 

Considering UT-RGV was just formed as an amalgamation of UTPA and UT-Brownsville, I think the state is already working on bolstering the system along the border. Kingsville is not the border.

 

[Houston19514]

Yes. It's easy to find. 

 

Texas ranks #2 in the nation behind New Jersey with a net loss of college students each year. Nearly 18,000 a year leave the state for college. 

 

What's worse is how lousy our schools are at attracting out of state kids. Here are the latest figures for states luring out of state kids to attend their colleges.

 

30,408 Pennsylvania

30,259 New York

24,726 Massachusetts

13,502 California

13,474 Illinois

13,386 Indiana

13,166 Florida 

13,073 Virginia

12,255 North Carolina

12,218 Ohio

9,140 Connecticut

8,944 Wisconsin

8,423 Arizona

8,356 Rhode Island

8,161 Missouri 

8,097 DC

8,065 Alabama

8,022 Iowa

7,837 South Carolina

7,616 Minnesota

7,341 Tennessee

7,120 Georgia

7,118 Maryland

6,937 Colorado

6,600 Michigan

6,425 TEXAS

 

The second most populated state falls in 26th place with attracting college kids. That's a problem. One that could be fixed by elevating the stature of more schools.

 

Interesting, but usually when people discuss "brain drains", the issue is where people go for their careers, not where they got to college.

 

May I ask your source?  Is that really saying that only 6,425 out of state students attend college in Texas.  Seems unlikely.

 

Edited February 17, 2016 by Houston19514

[htownproud]

Is there evidence somewhere that Texas is suffering a brain drain?

You need look no farther than most of the comments in this thread.

[Texas Wahoo]

The 10% rule is a factor. It isn't the only one though because even at UT, which is 95% in-state students, only 70% of the students entered via the 10% rule.

 

The private school factor is at play as well but again, it isn't the only one. Rice doesn't attract out of state kids like her peers (Ivies, Stanford, Chicago, Northwestern, Emory, Vandy, etc...). Ask any admissions person at Rice and they'll tell you, it is hard to recruit kids to Texas. 

 

Why is that? 

 

I have my ideas and I think one of them is how we treat education in this state. Hell, my social media has been blowing up about Mary Lou Bruner. If you don't know who she is, google her. It would be funny if it weren't so scary. 

 

So, yeah, the brain drain is real. It is measurable. It exists. We can either address if or ignore it but I'd prefer to try and make our state universities as attractive as possible. Maybe UH, Tech, UNT, etc... could go after bordering state kids like Arkansas and LSU do here. Heck, Arkansas offers 90% off out-of-state tuition to Texas kids who have a 3.6 and an ACT score of 26 or better. Since they instituted that policy, the number of Texans at UA has increased from 300 to over 1,700.

 

The University of Texas is forced to fill 75% of the class (it used to be 80%+) with top ten percent applicants (so it ends up being more like the top 7%), with the other 25% of applicants coming from all other Texas applicants, out-of-state applicants, and international applicants.  Most of those slots are always going to go to highly qualified in-state students that do not meet the top ten percent requirements for whatever reason.  That leaves very few slots for non-Texas residents.

 

Unfortunately, because of the small number of slots available for out-of-state students, all non-Texas residents are going to have more difficulty getting into the University of Texas than they would for other similarly situated schools.  Thus, you end up having trouble attracting out-of-state candidates because you are competing with extremely prestigious schools for those students.

[KinkaidAlum]

Interesting, but usually when people discuss "brain drains", the issue is where people go for their careers, not where they got to college.

 

May I ask your source?  Is that really saying that only 6,425 out of state students attend college in Texas.  Seems unlikely.

 

 

The National Center for Educational Statistics. 

 

And, no, that is not what it is saying. It is saying that in the last year of available data, only 6,425 new freshman enrolled in Texas colleges from out-of-state. That's not that hard to believe. Rice and SMU have the largest percentage of out-of-state students (47% each) but freshman classes at Rice SMU are relatively tiny. 

[Houston19514]

The National Center for Educational Statistics. 

 

And, no, that is not what it is saying. It is saying that in the last year of available data, only 6,425 new freshman enrolled in Texas colleges from out-of-state. That's not that hard to believe. Rice and SMU have the largest percentage of out-of-state students (47% each) but freshman classes at Rice SMU are relatively tiny. 

 

Found it.   I see your numbers are from 2008.  And they are for freshman students in 4-year degree granting institutions, who graduated from high school in the previous 12 months.

 

FWIW, here are the comparable Texas numbers for Fall 2012 (seemingly the most recent numbers available):

 

Total enrollment of freshman in Texas 4-year colleges:  93,616

Total Texas freshmen enrolled in 4-year college:  104,945

Total Texas freshmen enrolled in Texas colleges:  85,548

 

19,397 Texas freshmen attended out-of-state schools

8,068 out-of-state freshmen attended Texas colleges

 

Net loss of 11,329.  Now the 4th largest net loss among the states.

 

New Jersey:  -26,688

California:      -15,064

Illinois:           -15,943

 

I'm still curious about whether there is actual evidence of a brain drain, meaning people leaving the state for their careers.  Usually it refers to natives of a state getting their higher education in their state and then leaving.  I suppose it might also consist of people leaving the state for their education and not returning (and not balanced out by people educated in other states and then moving here.)

 

The numbers of people leaving the state for their college degrees does not tell us much at all as to whether we are suffering from any brain drain. 

 

Edited February 18, 2016 by Houston19514

[kdog08]

Yet you're asking them to give up money, receiving nothing in return. That's something for nothing.

 

The only thing that I can think of that UH has to offer that would be an even exchange for PUF access is institutional independence. Yet, I haven't seen any proposals from UH boosters that even countenance giving something up to UT in exchange for that access. It's only "we demand this" and "you should do this because this is unfair", like UT or A&M should care about such things, not to mention the people in the state's other big cities who would receive no material benefit from such a change.

 

UH doesn't have the leverage to get PUF access, and yet its supporters are the ones making the demands. Can you not see how this appears extremely foolish to others?

 

Your generalizations and putting words in mouth aside, how would you propose to fund additional flagship universities? 

 

It just seems you are focused on the wrong things. 

Considering UT-RGV was just formed as an amalgamation of UTPA and UT-Brownsville, I think the state is already working on bolstering the system along the border. Kingsville is not the border.

 

 

I am mistaken, I don't know why I thought Kingsville was much closer to the border. Glad to hear they are bolstering the border region. 

Edited February 18, 2016 by kdog08

[ADCS]

Your generalizations and putting words in mouth aside, how would you propose to fund additional flagship universities? 

 

It just seems you are focused on the wrong things. 

 

Incorporate all the schools into two flagship systems, just as they do in California. All the schools would have PUF access, but they wouldn't have independence in administration of the funds. It's an even trade-off.

 

What wrong things? Neither UT nor UH are my alma mater, so I don't have a horse in the race.

[mollusk]

I am mistaken, I don't know why I thought Kingsville was much closer to the border. Glad to hear they are bolstering the border region. 

 

'tain't far.

 

We are roughly the same distance from downtown to Beaumont as Kingsville is from the border in terms of driving distance.  Culturally, Kingsville might as well be in the Valley.  

[kdog08]

Incorporate all the schools into two flagship systems, just as they do in California. All the schools would have PUF access, but they wouldn't have independence in administration of the funds. It's an even trade-off.

 

What wrong things? Neither UT nor UH are my alma mater, so I don't have a horse in the race.

 

Yet you are fighting hard for the status quo. It simply isn't realistic to adopt the California system at this point, maybe several decades ago but that ship has sailed. 

 

So what else ya got?

 

Increase taxes? 

[samagon]

My only question with that is.. If a prestigious, nationally renown university like UT has trouble recruiting out of state students.. What makes you think a school like UH would have better luck?

 

I have no point of reference for UT, but UH has a lot of international students. So yeah, not just out of state, but as with Olajuwon, out of country, and out of continent.

[august948]

Just thought I'd throw this out there...got a mailer from UH asking for donations (major problem with giving one time to any organization is you get bugged for the rest of your life).  Anyway, the nice card inside says that 17% of UH funding is from the State of Texas, 42% is from tuition and fees, and 41% is from private support.

[Emma91]

let then the money is invested in the Houston metro, and the education is invested by those who have money to order their works on some paper writing services, cause it's so controversial question.

[Retyp]

I still don't think UT's long time goal is not a full fledged University, and I have no problem with two large full fledged public Universities in Houston, but it would be more fair if U of Houston got more funding.

It would be decades before a new university would catch up to uh, but with additional funding UH would not be seriously disadvantaged

[H-Town Man]

14 hours ago, kbates2 said:

 

This more or less the best way to describe the Texas public university "system".  The state truly funds one system and it is broken into several.  This fact only further shows the ridiculousness of establishing a UT Houston as "competition" for UH.  There is one wallet; that wallet has leather dividers that allocate much more cash to one section than the next but to pretend that the wallet competing with itself is capitalism or anything other than a waste of money and a chance for UT fans to have their logo in this city is a pretty hard sell.

 

I just wonder whether if M.D. Anderson hadn't been established back in the 1940's and UT came here today and said, "We want to build a giant cancer research center here on Brays Bayou," would the UH folks say, "Get out of here! We're the university in Houston! And we'll probably build a cancer center ourselves, as soon as the darn state gives us more money!" If one of those wallet dividers is overflowing with money, you might as well take your share, before it goes to other cities instead.

 

[pablog]

Astroworld anybody?

[DNAguy]

On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 1:11 PM, shasta said:

Fair and square...lol.

 

Did you not watch the actual state hearing where they admitted UNDER OATH  that everything about the deal was under the table, without the proper approval, without the knowledge of the UT Board of Regents, and that their renderings clearly showed more than just a academic satellite?

 

It was a Campus and they used PUF money to buy land OVER MARKET PRICE. Undesirable contaminated land and from a UT alum. 

 

Fair and Square...thanks for the laugh..lol

 

Next you are going to tell me that the PUF is also fair and square and making Texas' "other" public Universities fend for themselves for the majority of their existence is perfectly acceptable. 

 

But I'll go along with your theory that competition is good....Texas A&M should definitely build a 'Texas A&M- Austin' Campus TWO MILES from UT- Austin....Austin should be lucky to support that....right?  Where do I sign up?

 

Well maybe we just be really fair about it and eliminate all other university systems and just absorb them into Texas system and separately into the A&M system. The you can lose all control of UH and it'll just be A&M Houston or UT-Houston.

 

Go full California. Would you like that? My guess is not.

 

The PUF was set up as part of the land grant federal bill that was specifically set up to establish a flagship university and a mechanical/agricultural college. That's it.

 

If you want to talk about fair, maybe you can look at it in this way:

 

The UT system has a mandate to be pan-Texas. It's in every corner of the state. That's why it's funded w/ a large land endowment that was forked over to it by the feds/state.

 

UH does not have that mandate. It is a regional city college. A much smaller mandate. There's no UH Laredo or UH San Angelo or UH Texarkana. 

 

They should not be entitled to that money unless the state legislature decides that they need to revisit each system's mandate. But if they were to do that, my guess is they would probably streamline the systems and UH might actually be a big loser in that scrum.

 

 

[mollusk]

I do so enjoy my neutrality in what used to be known as the Southwest Conference. 

[JJxvi]

Quote

Not one major city in the U.S. has multiple 4 year major state university system campuses from different systems.

 

This exists within our state. In 2009, a new Texas A&M University-San Antonio was founded with eventual plans to reach an enrollement of 25,000+, and San Antonio is also served by the 35,000 student enrollment University of Texas at San Antonio.

Edited September 26, 2019 by JJxvi

[shasta]

4 hours ago, JJxvi said:

 

This exists within our state. In 2009, a new Texas A&M University-San Antonio was founded with eventual plans to reach an enrollement of 25,000+, and San Antonio is also served by the 35,000 student enrollment University of Texas at San Antonio.

If anything Austin is under-served.... Let's a build a University of Houston- Austin campus, a Texas A&M- Austin campus, and a Texas Tech- Austin campus...all within miles from the UT- Austin campus. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by shasta

[Texasota]

Well that would probably be good for Austin, so let's *not* do that.

[J Money]

Shasta clearly has a bone to pick with UT. They must still feel the sting of receiving that rejection letter years ago 😢

[shasta]

22 minutes ago, jmosele said:

Shasta clearly has a bone to pick with UT. They must still feel the sting of receiving that rejection letter years ago 😢

 

Nope..UT didn't make my final cut, despite pressure from UT family members and YES..I had the grades to get in.

You'd be surprised how many have turned down a scholarship/acceptance at UT-Austin to attend the University of Houston...there are more than you think.

 

For me, UH's accredited Architecture program within a top 5 US city,  with their picky sub 10% acceptance rate, turned out to be the best choice! 

 

UT understands that Houston is the most prolific educational market in the state and that the University of Houston is sitting in the cat birds seat, long term. 

They have advantages the other Texas cities just don't have. 

Give it a little time and Houston will have the BEST private school (Rice) and the BEST public school (UH) in the State of Texas........ just give it time. 

 

And for those paying attention, 46,000 students this fall  is a new enrollment record and they are building enough dorms to someday claim the title of the most dorms on campus in any school in Texas. Imagine a campus with 60,000 students, with 20,000+ living on campus and served by a redeveloped Third Ward creating a College Campus environment inside the  soon to be 3rd most populous city in the United States.  

Quite the shift!

Edited September 26, 2019 by shasta

[Triton]

8 hours ago, shasta said:

 

Nope..UT didn't make my final cut, despite pressure from UT family members and YES..I had the grades to get in.

You'd be surprised how many have turned down a scholarship/acceptance at UT-Austin to attend the University of Houston...there are more than you think.

 

For me, UH's accredited Architecture program within a top 5 US city,  with their picky sub 10% acceptance rate, turned out to be the best choice! 

 

UT understands that Houston is the most prolific educational market in the state and that the University of Houston is sitting in the cat birds seat, long term. 

They have advantages the other Texas cities just don't have. 

Give it a little time and Houston will have the BEST private school (Rice) and the BEST public school (UH) in the State of Texas........ just give it time. 

 

And for those paying attention, 46,000 students this fall  is a new enrollment record and they are building enough dorms to someday claim the title of the most dorms on campus in any school in Texas. Imagine a campus with 60,000 students, with 20,000+ living on campus and served by a redeveloped Third Ward creating a College Campus environment inside the  soon to be 3rd most populous city in the United States.  

Quite the shift!

I got accepted into UT but went to UH instead too.

[august948]

On 8/27/2019 at 12:55 PM, gclass said:

^^^ just a STARK reminder...

 

 

                                                                                      ^^^ just a STARK reminder...

[shasta]

20 hours ago, gclass said:

^^^ hey look, @shasta comes in BURNT ORANGE and even incorporates a bit of VITAMIN C... who knew?  seems a whole new twist to DRINK'IN THE KOOL-AID...

 

I seriously doubt that the city of Austin is making decisions that are best for University of Houston expansion into Austin, why do you guys act surprised when Houston is doing the same to protect the interests of its flagship public university?