Texas Central Project

[102IAHexpress]

1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Do you have evidence that eminent domain has been used? I don't think they have gotten to that point and they have expressed any number of times that they intend/hope to acquire all of the right-of-way without resorting to eminent domain.

 

I haven't researched all the filings. However, the fact that they -do- have power of eminent domain gives them a lot of leverage when "negotiating" with a private party. In a sense they are taking advantage of their eminent domain, even if they do not exercise it in every transaction. 

[Houston19514]

14 hours ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

False. It is not status quo because the property is less valuable now, because it has now become incombered with an easement. Future buyers will want a discount on the property because the easement will likely run with the land. 

 

Of course the land owner would have been compensated for that discounted value (and probably would still be farming/ranching the land.  So, where's the harm?

[Houston19514]

In reality, what TCR is acquiring now is not easements, but options to purchase the right of way property. Those options have expiration dates. If they are not exercised, it is indeed status quo ante (except the property owner has some additional money in his/her pocket). We can be sure the options will not be exercised if the project is not going forward.

[cspwal]

From the Texas Transportation Code, Title 5, Subititle C, Chapter 112, Subchapter A

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/TN/htm/TN.112.htm

Quote

Sec. 112.002. GENERAL RIGHTS OF RAILROADS. 

(b) A railroad company may:

...

(5) exercise the power of eminent domain for the purposes prescribed by this subtitle or Subtitle D;

(6) purchase, hold, and use all property as necessary for the construction and use of its railway, stations, and other accommodations necessary to accomplish company objectives, and convey that property when no longer required for railway use; and

(7) take, hold, and use property granted to the company to aid in the construction and use of its railway, and convey that property in a manner consistent with the terms of the grant when the property is no longer required for railway use.

 

Subtitle D with similar laws relating to an interurban railway

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/TN/htm/TN.131.htm

 

It's not clear, but it seems that if they don't use the land for a railroad it's supposed to revert back to the landowner

[102IAHexpress]

4 hours ago, cspwal said:

 

It's not clear, but it seems that if they don't use the land for a railroad it's supposed to revert back to the landowner

 

Yes, typically if you abandon the easement right of way, then it reverts to the landowner. However, tell that to the landowners who got screwed over in the rails to trails nightmare. https://www.supremecourt.gov/qp/12-01173qp.pdf

 

[Houston19514]

On 7/12/2018 at 2:22 PM, 102IAHexpress said:

 

Yes, typically if you abandon the easement right of way, then it reverts to the landowner. However, tell that to the landowners who got screwed over in the rails to trails nightmare. https://www.supremecourt.gov/qp/12-01173qp.pdf

 

 

In the linked case, the landowner won and the easement reverted to the landowner.

[jadebenn]

The next legislative session is going to be grueling for supporters of this project. I thought it was bad in 2015, but the TAHSR people have been doing a lot to get their message out there. There's a very real chance they'll be able to push a bill through this time, especially since construction's been delayed by the EIS and the opposition.

 

I'm curious if anyone here knows the significance of TCR re-applying to the STB for jurisdiction? I think the opponents might actually be right for once when they say it's a move to gain federal eminent domain authority. Mainly because I can't see the legislature letting TCR keep ED power under state law if they ever try and exercise it.

 

As much as the opposition is good for info (as long as you ignore their bias, that is), I can't stand reading their facebook page for more than a few minutes. Too much anger, too little facts.

Edited July 18, 2018 by jadebenn

[Elseed]

Are they still going to build that crappy grand modal center at Northwest Mall instead of Downtown? If they do then the entire project sucks and I hope they scrap it.

[BeerNut]

Metro plans to use BRT to link downtown to NW Mall site.  http://www.metronext.org/pdfs/2018_july_board_workshop_handouts.pdf

 

Edited August 4, 2018 by BeerNut

[cspwal]

I believe that’s even in the plan B 

[Houston19514]

Just now, cspwal said:

I believe that’s even in the plan B 

 

Yes it is.  And in the presentation they made a point about how many people would benefit from this service.

[cspwal]

Not as much as the university line 

[Houston19514]

2 minutes ago, cspwal said:

Not as much as the university line 

 

Actually, on a per mile basis (and one presumes per Dollar invested) , it is projected to serve significantly more people than the University Line.

[BeerNut]

I know the drawing isn't to scale but it looks like route to NW mall is all interstate with stops on the interstate.

[cspwal]

I hope these proposed BRT routes are all proper BRT

 - dedicated ROW (maybe extending the HOV ramp along I-10 to reach 610)

 - not as many stops as a normal bus, more like light rail

 - nice station with elevated platform

 - pay before you board

[Houston19514]

8 hours ago, cspwal said:

I hope these proposed BRT routes are all proper BRT

 - dedicated ROW (maybe extending the HOV ramp along I-10 to reach 610)

 - not as many stops as a normal bus, more like light rail

 - nice station with elevated platform

 - pay before you board

 

That's the plan

[Ross]

On 8/3/2018 at 10:43 PM, Elseed said:

Are they still going to build that crappy grand modal center at Northwest Mall instead of Downtown? If they do then the entire project sucks and I hope they scrap it.

 

Why would you put the terminal Downtown? It adds billions to the cost, and there's no reasonable route to get there that won't slow the trains to an average 30mph or less. 

[cspwal]

The train wouldn't have to slow to 30 mph, but that's why it would cost so much - having to build a fully grade separated rail in a very dense environment.  I suspect that they will eventually want to get a line to the other side of Houston, but that is probably 30 years off at this point.

[Trae]

At a projection of 59,500 riders on 22 miles, the University BRT would have more than enough ridership to justify it being rail. It'd have the 8th highest ridership per mile out of all light rail systems in this country. Even better, the Inner Katy line would have the 4th highest riders per mile if it were a light rail system. Some short-shortsightedness going on by making these lines BRT. But such is Houston nowadays, where people band together to stop another flagship university from forming.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Trae

[mfastx]

16 hours ago, Trae said:

At a projection of 59,500 riders on 22 miles, the University BRT would have more than enough ridership to justify it being rail. It'd have the 8th highest ridership per mile out of all light rail systems in this country. Even better, the Inner Katy line would have the 4th highest riders per mile if it were a light rail system. Some short-shortsightedness going on by making these lines BRT. But such is Houston nowadays, where people band together to stop another flagship university from forming.

 

Agreed.  I'm very dubious of that project btw.  If it were rail, that projection would be much more easily attainable.  

[Elseed]

On 8/6/2018 at 10:54 AM, Ross said:

 

Why would you put the terminal Downtown? It adds billions to the cost, and there's no reasonable route to get there that won't slow the trains to an average 30mph or less. 

 

I'd put it downtown because its the best location for it. It's centrally located, we already empty surface lots that need to be developed and there are business, sports teams, and now residential and retail(somewhat). If we really want Houston to become an amazing metro area with an amazing core then putting it downtown is your best bet. Otherwise we're just going backwards as a city and adhering to the lame suburbanite mentally. You know the same lame mentality that built the big piece of crap known as the Houston Pavilions. Anyway, Downtown Houston is booming and I dont see it slowly down anytime soon. Having a centrally located intermodal station there would allow thousands of visitors from Houston and other cities to come and explore Downtown, midtown, EaDo, etc without having to look for parking. But knowing how backwards a lot of people and developers in the city are, I'm pretty sure the intermodal center will be at Northwest Mall, smackdab next to the 290. I cant imagine all the wonderful traffic that will be added to 290. It'll be a heck of bottleneck. Cheers to you crappy train builders!

Edited August 12, 2018 by Elseed

[gmac]

Someone is a little salty about their little choo-choo going somewhere else

[gregpet]

Way too late for a change but would love to have seen “electric sled” design like what Musk envisions in LA and Chicago.  Almost like an autonomous BRT. 

 

This could have eleviated some of the rural folks concern since it would be much easier to add local stops (so they benefit). It’s just st as fast and I’m assuming it would be cheaper to build and more future proof than 300+ seat trains. 

 

Just my 2 cents 

[Ross]

1 hour ago, Elseed said:

 

I'd put it downtown because its the best location for it. It's centrally located, we already empty surface lots that need to be developed and there are business, sports teams, and now residential and retail(somewhat). If we really want Houston to become an amazing metro area with an amazing core then putting it downtown is your best bet. Otherwise we're just going backwards as a city and adhering to the lame suburbanite mentally. You know the same lame mentality that built the big piece of crap known as the Houston Pavilions. Anyway, Downtown Houston is booming and I dont see it slowly down anytime soon. Having a centrally located intermodal station there would allow thousands of visitors from Houston and other cities to come and explore Downtown, midtown, EaDo, etc without having to look for parking. But knowing how backwards a lot of people and developers in the city are, I'm pretty sure the intermodal center will be at Northwest Mall, smackdab next to the 290. I cant imagine all the wonderful traffic that will be added to 290. It'll be a heck of bottleneck. Cheers to you crappy train builders!

Downtown is overrated, and a pain to get around since the stupid light rail destroyed Main Street. I don't give a crap about an "awesome core", Houston isn't an "awesome core" kind of place, it's Houston, messy, unconventional, and unlike anywhere else. I also don't really care whether visitors come here or not or whether they have an easy time getting around.

 

You didn't explain whose neighborhood you would want to destroy to get the train Downtown, or who would pay the extra few billion for that route.

[Elseed]

1 hour ago, Ross said:

Downtown is overrated, and a pain to get around since the stupid light rail destroyed Main Street. I don't give a crap about an "awesome core", Houston isn't an "awesome core" kind of place, it's Houston, messy, unconventional, and unlike anywhere else. I also don't really care whether visitors come here or not or whether they have an easy time getting around.

 

You didn't explain whose neighborhood you would want to destroy to get the train Downtown, or who would pay the extra few billion for that route.

 

No point in trying to explain anything to you. If you can't see why having an "awesome core"  and making the city more suitable for visitors and residents alike is a good thing then you're just delusional.I pity you.Have fun at applebees.

[gmac]

53 minutes ago, Elseed said:

 

No point in trying to explain anything to you. If you can't see why having an "awesome core"  and making the city more suitable for visitors and residents alike is a good thing then you're just delusional.I pity you.Have fun at applebees.

 

You're not explaining anything to anyone. You're passionately espousing your ideas.

 

An "awesome core" would entail building affordable housing for thousands of workers who are priced out of the area right now. There aren't many people besides 1%ers who can afford to live downtown as is, so I have no interest in catering to that crowd. The CBD concept is a dinosaur that needs to fade away.

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

I think I said it in this post before, but it needs to be said again.

 

Gare du Nord is 4 miles away from main attractions in Paris, and 7 miles away from the CBD.

[ADCS]

8 hours ago, Tumbleweed_Tx said:

I think I said it in this post before, but it needs to be said again.

 

Gare du Nord is 4 miles away from main attractions in Paris, and 7 miles away from the CBD.

 

Eh, closer to 2 miles from Ile de la Cite, and 5 from La Defense, but your general point is sound. Train stations have almost always been built at the outskirts of whatever the city was at the time of construction.

[cspwal]

14 hours ago, gregpet said:

Way too late for a change but would love to have seen “electric sled” design like what Musk envisions in LA and Chicago.  Almost like an autonomous BRT. 

 

This could have eleviated some of the rural folks concern since it would be much easier to add local stops (so they benefit). It’s just st as fast and I’m assuming it would be cheaper to build and more future proof than 300+ seat trains. 

 

Just my 2 cents 

 

It is possible to add local stops to this style HSR - you would make sidings off the main line, build separate platforms for NB and SB, and schedule a local train.  They already are going to have a stop (in College station area), so they could potentially add more of those as time goes on.  As long as the intermediate stations are well designed, express trains can bypass the stations while local trains stop at them.

 

[Ross]

On 8/12/2018 at 9:31 PM, Elseed said:

 

No point in trying to explain anything to you. If you can't see why having an "awesome core"  and making the city more suitable for visitors and residents alike is a good thing then you're just delusional.I pity you.Have fun at applebees.

Why would I eat at Applebees? Their food is mediocre. I live inside the loop, but seldom go Downtown for events or food - there's not much to attract me to the area. I don't go to bars, and the restaurants Downtown aren't that attractive, given the choices elsewhere in the City. No need to pity me, I've lived here for 40 years, in a variety of areas. I love Houston, but don't want it to be another version of some other city.