Texas Central Project

[mfastx]

2 hours ago, cspwal said:

 

The sunset limited runs up along 90A and then through the inner loop on the tracks that go past Higland village and through Memorial Park, and then it turns down the Washington ave corridor.  They could probably reroute to the NW mall location, but it would be out of the way some

 

Yup, they could just back up on the wye after making the turn instead of continuing to downtown.  Probably won't happen but it's a neat idea, and certainly would be an upgrade over the existing Amshack. 

[102IAHexpress]

If the proposed Houston station gets built as planned, would this be the only inter city train hub in the US without an Amtrak connection? 

 

 

[cspwal]

When the Brightline railroad opens in Florida, both the Miami station and the Orlando station won't have Amtrak connections.  Orlando and Miami both currently have Amtrak service, but the new Brightline stations will be in different spots

[102IAHexpress]

On ‎8‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 7:36 AM, cspwal said:

When the Brightline railroad opens in Florida, both the Miami station and the Orlando station won't have Amtrak connections.  Orlando and Miami both currently have Amtrak service, but the new Brightline stations will be in different spots

 

Understood. Yeah, Miami has a central station called Miami Airport Station with Amtrak service and Florida Tri-Rail service. Also, Orlando's Orlando Station has Amtrak service and Florida SunRail service. The new Brightline service would stop at separate stations.

 

So my question is for anyone who may know the answer, if this NW Mall station gets built as planned, would Houston be the only city in the US with more than one inter city line, yet not have at least one station where you could connect to a separate inter-city line? 

 

It seems like this would be like having two separate airports in the same city, however each airport having only one airline that flies only one route. 

[Houston19514]

^ I don't know the answer to the question.  But I'm pretty sure no one really cares.  As already mentioned, Amtrak is an irrelevancy -- about 62 passengers 6 times a week.  Plus the Texas Eagle and TCR customer bases are probably almost mutually exclusive, especially when looking at the same journey.  Rather than go to the expense of moving either Amtrak service or TCR service so they can be at the same station, it would be probably be more cost-effective to provide the occasional connecting passenger with private helicopter service.

[cspwal]

Having an elevated bullet train out of Houston probably would help right now - could do multiple runs to evacuate people in just a day

[Urbannizer]

 

 

[Urbannizer]

 

[MaxConcrete]

The DEIS is massive and I've been sifting through it to try to find items of interest.

• The recommended alignment (alternative A) between Houston and Dallas is the westernmost alignment (not the Interstate 45 alignment). I'm glad to see that recommendation.
• Alternative A is 234.4 miles long with 21 miles at grade level, 77.4 miles on embankment and 135.9 miles on viaduct. This high percentage of viaduct (58%) is surprising to me and will surely be expensive. (Reference document 1 ES 9.2)
• Document 2 has depictions of the structure along the route, including the Houston area
• Document 31 has travel times. Initial service would be at 186 MPH, with a travel time of 86 minutes including the Brazos Valley stop. Future upgrades to 205 MPH would provide a travel time of 80 minutes. The track curves are designed to support 205 MPH on the full length.

Details of the viaduct design in Houston are in document 34.

 

The elevated structure normally has a vertical clearance between the ground and its lower edge of around 30 feet. The structure thickness is around 12 feet, and the catenary poles are 13m (43 feet) for a total typical height of around 85 feet.

 

Starting at the Houston station

• If the Houston station is at the Katy Transit center, it may be difficult or impractical to ever extend the train into downtown Houston due to a needed sharp turn and proximity to Memorial Park.
• From Loop 610 to Gessner, the viaduct uses the south side of the Hempstead Road right of way (along the north edge of the Union Pacific right-of-way), using about 35 feet for the column positioning. The elevated structure does not infringe into the Union Pacific right-of-way. To maintain the current lanes on Hempstead Road, extra pavement will need to be added on the north side of the road.
• The viaduct crosses over to the south side of the Union Pacific railroad west of Gessner, and then goes underneath Beltway 8, touching ground level. It goes back to viaduct immediately after going under BW 8.
• West of BW 8, The alignment is on the south edge of the Union Pacific right-of-way
• West of FM 529, the viaduct is at a higher elevation with a ground clearance around 42 feet.
• Ground clearance increases to about 60 feet at SH 6. Total height is around 60 + 12  + 43= 115 feet
• Ground clearance returns to typical after SH 6, but is somewhat higher at Telge (40 feet) and Barker Cypress (55 feet)
• The track veers away from the Union Pacific/US 290 corridor at Fry Road, and the viaduct ends just west of Fry Road where the track returns to ground level for a while until it goes over SH 99 (Grand Parkway). After the Grand Parkway crossing it goes back to ground level until going back onto a long viaduct to cross Hempstead Road and US 290.

The rail viaduct generally uses right-of-way that was slated for the proposed Hempstead Toll Road. So if the Hempstead Tollway is built, its right-of-way is pushed further north inside BW 8, and further south outside BW 8. This will surely increase property displacements and cost, but it is hard to say if the impact is minor or major. The Northwest Mall station location may be incompatible with the preliminary design for the Hempstead Tollway. Another difficult spot will be around Beltway 8, where the toll road would need to cross over the rail line. Overall, I think the high speed rail project will make the Hempstead Toll Road more difficult and expensive to build, and therefore less likely to be built.

 

Edited December 16, 2017 by MaxConcrete

[cspwal]

5 hours ago, MaxConcrete said:

The rail viaduct generally uses right-of-way that was slated for the proposed Hempstead Toll Road. So if the Hempstead Tollway is built, its right-of-way is pushed further north inside BW 8, and further south outside BW 8. This will surely increase property displacements and cost, but it is hard to say if the impact is minor or major. The Northwest Mall station location may be incompatible with the preliminary design for the Hempstead Tollway. Another difficult spot will be around Beltway 8, where the toll road would need to cross over the rail line. Overall, I think the high speed rail project will make the Hempstead Toll Road more difficult and expensive to build, and therefore less likely to be built.

 

How likely is the Hempstead Toll Road to be built?  It seems like the direction is pointing in co-located tollroads (e.g. Katy Tollway, whatever the new HOV lanes are going to be on 290)

Besides, I suspect more people are going to be able to go up and down a HSR line than a tollroad

[IronTiger]

11 minutes ago, cspwal said:

 

How likely is the Hempstead Toll Road to be built?  It seems like the direction is pointing in co-located tollroads (e.g. Katy Tollway, whatever the new HOV lanes are going to be on 290)

Besides, I suspect more people are going to be able to go up and down a HSR line than a tollroad

 

The Hempstead Toll Road was planned at the same time of the Northwest Freeway widening. I think there's even the appropriate connections built into the HOT lanes to allow for a connection (at least the last plans I saw, but we know those change sometimes, like the original plan to make a five-stack at Grand Parkway and Northwest Freeway). It involved ROW takeover, like it would alter the intersection where Mangum, Hempstead, and 18th all intersect with each other.

 

I also see according to that rendering there's no overpasses or anything, it's all elevated. I seem to remember in this thread that TCR would build overpasses/underpasses for their tracks as well as the freight traffic. Guess not, but I didn't expect much out of TCR anyway, and I still suspect that this is all some sort of plan to manipulate taxpayers somehow for a profit as the economics from the last study haven't really changed in terms of how many people they need to do daily to turn a profit. (I expect that I'll receive notifications for replies telling me how wrong I am)

[MaxConcrete]

1 hour ago, cspwal said:

 

How likely is the Hempstead Toll Road to be built?  It seems like the direction is pointing in co-located tollroads (e.g. Katy Tollway, whatever the new HOV lanes are going to be on 290)

Besides, I suspect more people are going to be able to go up and down a HSR line than a tollroad

The official HGAC document updated in January 2017 says

"Please note, this revised interim lane configuration [on US 290] does not alter the ultimate improvements proposed for the corridor, which include construction of a 4-lane managed lane roadway along Hempstead Rd to accommodate high-occupancy and toll users. Implementation of the ultimate project scope, as documented in the Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS) and Record of Decision(ROD), continues to be proposed within the 2040 RTP and is anticipated to be open to traffic by the 2035 milestone year."

 

The HGAC long term project listing and corridor overview both show the project, with very different costs, $1.1 billion on the corridor page and $2.7 billion on the project listing, which appears to be year-of-expenditure inflated cost.

 

Whether it actually gets built will depend on numerous factors: if Texas Central is built (which makes the toll road more costly and less likely), the amount of congestion on US 290, the availability of a funding sponsor (HCTRA is probably not interested, private funding would be the best chance or maybe TxDOT depending on the political climate), and whether any high-capacity transit is planned or built in the corridor.

 

So what are the chances it gets built? It's really difficult to predict. Definitely not a sure thing. I would say 50-50 chance it gets built by 2035.

[IronTiger]

38 minutes ago, MaxConcrete said:

The official HGAC document updated in January 2017 says

"Please note, this revised interim lane configuration [on US 290] does not alter the ultimate improvements proposed for the corridor, which include construction of a 4-lane managed lane roadway along Hempstead Rd to accommodate high-occupancy and toll users. Implementation of the ultimate project scope, as documented in the Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS) and Record of Decision(ROD), continues to be proposed within the 2040 RTP and is anticipated to be open to traffic by the 2035 milestone year."

 

The HGAC long term project listing and corridor overview both show the project, with very different costs, $1.1 billion on the corridor page and $2.7 billion on the project listing, which appears to be year-of-expenditure inflated cost.

 

Whether it actually gets built will depend on numerous factors: if Texas Central is built (which makes the toll road more costly and less likely), the amount of congestion on US 290, the availability of a funding sponsor (HCTRA is probably not interested, private funding would be the best chance or maybe TxDOT depending on the political climate), and whether any high-capacity transit is planned or built in the corridor.

 

So what are the chances it gets built? It's really difficult to predict. Definitely not a sure thing. I would say 50-50 chance it gets built by 2035.

Oh yeah, that was the thing I remember, that the Hempstead Tollway project did account for a "high speed transit" corridor. In fact, I also remember that they condemned more ROW for the 290/610 project than they needed for that very thing (and a judge made them pay back the difference).

[curbur]

What about all of the north/south thoroughfaes across 290 in Cypress west of Fry rd like Mueschke, Mason, Bauer, etc that have yet to be built? If the train goes at grade at that point, then it'll be a lot more cost prohibitive to get those done. What about that new neighborhood that was supposed to be going in south of 290 across from Fairfield between Mueschke@290 & Mason&290?

[ADCS]

6 hours ago, curbur said:

What about all of the north/south thoroughfaes across 290 in Cypress west of Fry rd like Mueschke, Mason, Bauer, etc that have yet to be built? If the train goes at grade at that point, then it'll be a lot more cost prohibitive to get those done. What about that new neighborhood that was supposed to be going in south of 290 across from Fairfield between Mueschke@290 & Mason&290?

 

The train will be on elevated viaduct all the way out to Hockley, judging by the renderings.

[curbur]

On 12/18/2017 at 10:03 AM, ADCS said:

 

The train will be on elevated viaduct all the way out to Hockley, judging by the renderings.

Okay well I suppose that could suffice, but if I'm not mistake another poster just stated the renderings show the viaduct returns to ground level shortly after Fry Rd.

[Texasota]

Eh, maybe we'll get lucky and developers will stop building on greenfields and focus on the all the vacant land we still have in the city. 

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Texasota

[cspwal]

1 hour ago, Texasota said:

Eh, maybe we'll get lucky and developers will stop building on greenfields and focus on the all the vacant land we still have in the city. 

 

 

Or Roan's prairie will get hundreds of expansive ranch houses for people commuting into both Houston and Dallas

[Ross]

2 hours ago, Texasota said:

Eh, maybe we'll get lucky and developers will stop building on greenfields and focus on the all the vacant land we still have in the city. 

 

The big developers won't look at the vacant land, because it's not in parcels big enough to fit their suburban development model that is based on 1000 acre+ developments. A lot of the vacant land is also tied up with clouded titles and by owners who don't feel like selling. Other parcels require some sort of remediation to clean up the crap left behind over 100+ years of industrial use.

[Texasota]

I'm aware of all that, but I can dream, can't I?

[curbur]

15 hours ago, Texasota said:

Eh, maybe we'll get lucky and developers will stop building on greenfields and focus on the all the vacant land we still have in the city. 

 

 

Well Dunham Pointe is already slated for development just west of Fry Rd on that open patch of land in between Cypress Creek and 290. The residential will between Mueschke & Mason with accompanying commercial outside the perimeter. I wonder how Archie Dunham feels about this new rail line going right through his land that he planned on putting nice upper middle class homes on.

[BigFootsSocks]

I saw the first planning commission agendas that Dunham’s project appeared on and the staff’s recommendation was to consult with TCR and their plans, so I’m sure they’re very aware the train’s path.

[ADCS]

On 12/21/2017 at 9:04 AM, Ross said:

The big developers won't look at the vacant land, because it's not in parcels big enough to fit their suburban development model that is based on 1000 acre+ developments. A lot of the vacant land is also tied up with clouded titles and by owners who don't feel like selling. Other parcels require some sort of remediation to clean up the crap left behind over 100+ years of industrial use.

 

Very true. Most development is about making empty land as expensive as possible. That's where the money is.

[BeerNut]

HOW TO COMMENT ON THE DEIS AND ATTEND PUBLIC MEETINGS

The 60-day public comment period that began with December 22nd's notice in the Federal Register provides an important opportunity for the public to review and provide input to the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) on the Texas Bullet Train’s route and low-impact designs. Texas Central looks forward to continuing to hear from landowners and other stakeholders at the FRA’s upcoming meetings and informally as we are working every day in the community.

You can review all DEIS-related documents and provide comments to the FRA directly at this link: https://www.fra.dot.gov/Page/P0779

Comments may also be provided orally or in writing at the public hearings scheduled on January 29, 30, 31 and February 5 and 6, 2018 in 10 counties at the times and dates listed below. Before the public hearing presentation begins, an open house will be held to allow for comments, questions and review of project exhibits. FRA and TCR staff will be available to answer questions at that time.

We look forward to seeing you at these meetings!

 

Dallas County
Monday, January 29, 2018, 5 p.m. to 9 p.m. 
Wilmer-Hutchins High School
5520 Langdon Rd, Dallas, TX 75241

 

Navarro County
Monday, January 29, 2018, 5 p.m. to 9 p.m. 
Corsicana Middle School
4101 FM 744, Corsicana, TX 75110

 

Ellis County 
Tuesday, January 30, 2018, 5 p.m. to 9 p.m. 
Ennis High School
2301 Ensign Rd, Ennis, TX 75119

 

Leon County
Tuesday, January 30, 2018, 5 p.m. to 9 p.m. 
Leon High School
12168 US 79, Jewett, TX 75846

 

Limestone County
Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 5 p.m. to 9 p.m. 
Mexia High School
1120 N Ross Ave, Mexia, TX 76667

 

Freestone County
Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 5 p.m. to 9 p.m. 
Fairfield High School
630 Post Rd, Fairfield, TX 75840

 

Madison County
Monday, February 5, 2018, 5 p.m. to 9 p.m. 
Madisonville High School
811a S May St, Madisonville, TX 77864

 

Harris County
Monday, February 5, 2018, 6:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. 
Woodard Elementary School
17501 Cypress North Houston Rd, Cypress, TX 77433

 

Grimes County
Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 6:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. 
Navasota Middle School
1 Rattler Dr, Navasota, TX 77868

 

Waller County
Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 5 p.m. to 9 p.m. 
Waller High School
20950 Fields Store Rd, Waller, TX 77484

[BeerNut]

https://www.texascentral.com/2018/01/17/brazos-valley-station/

 

[BigFootsSocks]

Really hope there’s a good turn out for the meetings in Houston. The opposition is turning into full on fear mongering

[Luminare]

On 2/2/2018 at 8:54 AM, BigFootsSocks said:

Really hope there’s a good turn out for the meetings in Houston. The opposition is turning into full on fear mongering

 

Depends on if the opposition movement is just online complaining or real people that actively participate in opposition. If that were the case then the train wouldn't have gotten this far. This project has so much momentum at this point, and has bypassed the loudest voices that it should be ok. The remaining opposition is now people that simply dismiss it because...reasons. Seems TCR have done a good job brokering with the proper power players, securing the proper means to financing, meeting with real people that might have issues, and finding out what will actually work. I have yet to see anything from them that spells "pipe dream" unlike passed instances.

 

Have they posted when they will have meetings in Houston? Would like to join the next time they are in town.

[BigFootsSocks]

Oh for sure it’s a lot online, but never underestimate the power of an orchestrated online social media persuasion attack

 

But most of the articles, and Dug Begely’s from the chron have propped up the oppositions claims (maybe because he knows he has to cater to a certain audience) and the quotes from the people in the middle counties are some valid concerns and others just crazy. 

 

I think houstons is February 5th

[cspwal]

I wonder if they will sell monthly passes for trips C.S. -> Houston for people who want to move out there but still work in Houston

[cspwal]

Breaking train news!

http://www.khou.com/news/local/officials-northwest-mall-preferred-location-for-houston-bullet-train-station/514889177

Quote

Texas Central announced Monday that Northwest Mall is the “preferred location” for the Houston bullet train station.

 

https://www.texascentral.com/2018/02/05/houston-bullet-train-station-location-announced/

 

First look at "Station Location Name" Station!