Embassy Suites By Hilton Houston Downtown At 1515 Dallas St.

[porTENT]

What does the base look like? That's really the most important issue regarding downtown's urban fabric. It is a shame that this couldn't have been built another block over instead of wasting such a unique parcel on such a boring and cheap design. Hopefully this gets torn down in the long run and we get something unique relative to it's site like the Flatiron building in NY.

/wishful thinking

[kdog08]

Actually, what's funny to me is that people are surprised that other folks are commenting on BRUTALLY painful architecture on an architectural forum!

Isn't that what this forum is for?????

It is, but it doesn't mean we don't get sick of people complaining. It's throwing off my chi.

[Geoff8201]

Oh.. but you would.

Busted! I did say sometimes... emphasis on SOMETIMES. I still feel in this particular case, had they waited, they could have avoided scaling back, but again, loss of time, money, and the chance the whole thing would have ended up scrapped. Oh cruel world.

Anyhow, so my mood changed from yesterday to today on what I said. Overall, despite the outcome of the design I guess it is better to have a functioning hotel there vs nothing in the end...

['Stonian]

Yeah, that's my biggest complaint.., TAKE DOWN THAT STUPID RENDERING ALREADY! It only reminds us of what could have been. Honestly I was suspicious when I read the initial press release that they were about to go ahead and start construction because they had secured a $30 million loan for financing construction. $30 million would barely finance Discovery Tower's adjacent garage..., so I was skeptical. This developer knew all along that they could NOT build that rendering with only $30 million. IMO the rendering was just a ploy to get the City of Houston's tax abatements.

[wernicke]

Actually, what's funny to me is that people are surprised that other folks are commenting on BRUTALLY painful architecture on an architectural forum!

Isn't that what this forum is for?????

I agree... interesting how people love to come onto an architecture site and b"tch and moan about people critiquing architecture.

[TheNiche]

I agree... interesting how people love to come onto an architecture site and b"tch and moan about people critiquing architecture.

Well yeah, some people are in the profession or interact with the profession, but most have no idea what they're talking about and some have abominable taste and need to be informed of that anonymously...for the good of mankind.

Edited September 24, 2010 by TheNiche

[Subdude]

Yeah, that's my biggest complaint.., TAKE DOWN THAT STUPID RENDERING ALREADY! It only reminds us of what could have been. Honestly I was suspicious when I read the initial press release that they were about to go ahead and start construction because they had secured a $30 million loan for financing construction. $30 million would barely finance Discovery Tower's adjacent garage..., so I was skeptical. This developer knew all along that they could NOT build that rendering with only $30 million. IMO the rendering was just a ploy to get the City of Houston's tax abatements.

I don't care that it doesn't match the rendering. Anyone should know that renderings are frequently misleading. My beef is that what was built was ugly, plain and simple. That and people seem to feel we shouldn't say so on a board dedicated to architecture. That and the fact that people somehow feel that providing construction jobs somehow justifies uglifying the skyline with sheer garbage.

[kdog08]

I don't care that it doesn't match the rendering. Anyone should know that renderings are frequently misleading. My beef is that what was built was ugly, plain and simple. That and people seem to feel we shouldn't say so on a board dedicated to architecture. That and the fact that people somehow feel that providing construction jobs somehow justifies uglifying the skyline with sheer garbage.

I don't think you understand. Right now you are the guy on the left, Ron Livingston:

Furthermore, I don't think anyone on here would disagree that this is an ugly building. It sucks this got built downtown, no doubt about it. So why keep b*tching? We already know it's a crap building. Are you Ron Livingston and....

You have every right to b*tch about crappy architecture on a quasi architecture forum (architecture is probably the 3rd most talked about subject on HAIF). But some people, like myself included, don't need to constantly b*tch about it and would rather move on. You can do whatever you want, but so can I.

Edited September 24, 2010 by kdog08

[Jax]

A couple photos I took last night at Disco Green (Rushmorefest).

[bachanon]

those pictures hurt to look at. beautifully executed discovery green with a tan and beige symbol of banality overshadowing. we need the artist who did the building caricature for "stop the ashby highrise" posters to do a drawing for haif expressing our dismay over the ES finished product; the mean ugly building encroaching over our well designed park.

[LTAWACS]

Disgusting.

[C2H]

The building is real ugly but what would be worse? It would have been worse had this hotel went the way of La Quinta and gotten scrapped altogether. Considering Houston has had a history of plans getting scrapped, i say that the fact the hotel got built at all is a good thing.

[asubrt]

Opening March 15, 2011

[Howard Huge]

This building looks like the last flurf I took.

[LTAWACS]

Flurf?

[Montrose1100]

It's actually not that bad. I just think they need to do something about the blank staircase wall facing the park. Maybe a mural? or a huge vertical sign saying "Houston" in LED lights?

[TheNiche]

It's actually not that bad. I just think they need to do something about the blank staircase wall facing the park. Maybe a mural? or a huge vertical sign saying "Houston" in LED lights?

Well, colorful dynamic lighting seems to work for strip clubs. Lots of greens and purples, spinning, strobing, and oscillating. Maybe a spotlight or two on the roof. I say that we do that and then turn Discovery Green into Houston's first outdoor strip joint.

But its and all or nothing proposition. I don't want to advertise downtown like a strip joint if it isn't going to be one. That'd just be a cheap imitation of Dallas.

[scarface]

^^^ Man please! You can say what you want about Dallas, but Dallas's night time skyline blows Houston's out of the water! Houston should try to imitate Dallas.

[mfastx]

Well, colorful dynamic lighting seems to work for strip clubs. Lots of greens and purples, spinning, strobing, and oscillating. Maybe a spotlight or two on the roof. I say that we do that and then turn Discovery Green into Houston's first outdoor strip joint.

But its and all or nothing proposition. I don't want to advertise downtown like a strip joint if it isn't going to be one. That'd just be a cheap imitation of Dallas.

I think there's a middle ground between tasteful lighting and tacky lighting, wouldn't you agree?

[JJVilla]

What's the gray thing you're talking about?

Edited October 8, 2010 by JJVilla

[TheNiche]

I think there's a middle ground between tasteful lighting and tacky lighting, wouldn't you agree?

Sure. From context, it seems that my standards are higher than yours, however.

Edited October 8, 2010 by TheNiche

[mfastx]

Sure. From context, it seems that my standards are higher than yours, however.

I think we can improve our downtown lighting without imitating Dallas. Dallas doesn't really have bad lighting, with the exception of that horrible green neon. I don't really have that high of standards like you apparently, I am dissapointed with this building, but I'll live with it, my view is "it's better than nothing." I belive that we can illuminate our downtown architecture a bit better at night, though.

So my standards are not that low, otherwise I wouldn't care at all.

[LTAWACS]

There must be something we can do.

[tierwestah]

The building sucks. Hopefully, they'll make up for it by giving it some nice illumination at night as well as keeping the plans for the lighted "E" on the top.

[TheNiche]

So my standards are not that low, otherwise I wouldn't care at all.

There's a difference between not caring and being a contented and sensible pragmatist.

Less can be more. Its all about perspective.

[mfastx]

There's a difference between not caring and being a contented and sensible pragmatist.

So, let me get this straight: you inferred (based on your perception of my context) you have higher standards than me, then I said that I also have high standards in terms of nightime lighting, since I am unsatisfied with the current situation, and (in so many words) stated that one who has low standards doesn't care at all. Then you preceded to inform me that there is a difference between not caring and being a sensible pragmatist (which I am assuming you consider yourself to be). So.. did you think I was accusing you of having low standards?

OR.. maybe you yourself have lower standards then myself, or maybe we are talking about two completely different types of "low standards." For example, "low standards" to you might mean that one doesn't care about the tackiness of cheap lighting, as long as there is lighting, and the "low standards" I am talking about mean that one doesn't care if there is any lighting at all.

For some, less is more, for others, less is less. How do you feel about the lighting on the new Methodist Outpatient Center in the TMC? That has nice lighting; not tacky IMO. Would you like to see lighting similar to that in downtown? Is downtown Houston your favorite skyline at night, or do you like another city's downtown at night better? How would you light up Embassy Suites at night? Or would you not light it up at all, for the sake of the people?

[TheNiche]

...or maybe we are talking about two completely different types of "low standards." For example, "low standards" to you might mean that one doesn't care about the tackiness of cheap lighting, as long as there is lighting, and the "low standards" I am talking about mean that one doesn't care if there is any lighting at all.

Exactly, and your endorsement of Dallas' lighting (in particular that green-lit highrise which you don't like but are okay with because it's better than nothing) indicates to me that you fall in that camp.

For some, less is more, for others, less is less. How do you feel about the lighting on the new Methodist Outpatient Center in the TMC? That has nice lighting; not tacky IMO. Would you like to see lighting similar to that in downtown? Is downtown Houston your favorite skyline at night, or do you like another city's downtown at night better? How would you light up Embassy Suites at night? Or would you not light it up at all, for the sake of the people?

I must admit, I am conflicted on the business purpose of lighting in the TMC. Non-profit hospitals receive a large segment of their funding from wealthy donors whose egos must be satiated by perceiving themselves to be part of something grand, and (irrespective of my preferences about lighting in general) that may be a legitimate business purpose to have lighting.

And actually, that distinction answers your next questions too. There should be more lighting with legitimate business purpose. For instance, we should allow there to be more billboards, we should allow billboards that are dynamic, that feature projected video, or that are over-sized. Dallas does deserve credit for getting that part right, at least.

In particular, this could be our solution to the Embassy Suites being ugly and having blank walls. The old Days Inn and Central Bank buildings would benefit, as would the Kim Son parking garage. If all we did was exempt large expanses of blank wall from the sign ordinances, that'd be an improvement. We could call it the "blankets for pigs" exemption.

...but yeah, short of slathering it with advertisements that are inherently distracting, I would sincerely hope that Embassy Suites does not call attention to itself with lighting.

[Montrose1100]

Well, colorful dynamic lighting seems to work for strip clubs. Lots of greens and purples, spinning, strobing, and oscillating. Maybe a spotlight or two on the roof. I say that we do that and then turn Discovery Green into Houston's first outdoor strip joint.

But its and all or nothing proposition. I don't want to advertise downtown like a strip joint if it isn't going to be one. That'd just be a cheap imitation of Dallas.

I think there's a middle ground between tasteful lighting and tacky lighting, wouldn't you agree?

How would having the word "Houston" in LED lighting be like a strip club? LED wouldn't be a cheap imitation to neon, it's more modern and outline certain angles of buildings very nicely IMO.

What would be tasteful lighting to you? I really liked the spot lights at the base of every building in Power over Houston. Just lit up the buildings at night.

[totheskies]

I for one love the green lightting in Dallas... and just to be clear, it's a direct imitation of the Wedge Tower in Houston.

[scarface]

I for one love the green lightting in Dallas... and just to be clear, it's a direct imitation of the Wedge Tower in Houston.

Don't know about that. The BOA building was lit first. The Wedge Tower started their green outline in 1995 or so. The residents complained and around late 2002/early 2003, they just limited the lighting to the rooftops. The building has been completely off for about 3 or 4 years now. I miss that lighting, along with the Wells Fargo building. Don't miss the buildings that did the boring white christmas lights though! That "Lights Out Houston" thing is utter crap!